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Knight 697 1611
  • 5
  • 15 Aug '19

My optimism has faded.

Recently, an interest in a shield rework was expressed, then decided against because devs believe it would do more harm than good to the game's playerbase with shield crutchers being deprived of hold-RMB. When the playerbase has shrunk so much, it's really strange to me that they are so afraid of taking a risk when by their own admission they say held-shields will never be fun and forever be fundamentally broken and clunky.

The stance on BR is unmoving. When I try to explain that the reason BR feels bad for the average player is because they wait minutes for a game to start, only to have it end in seconds, and that even a victory lasts just four minutes, the reply I get is - "if BR was any longer, no one would play it", missing the point of the criticism. Suggest a team-focused BR and you get replies of "that's not a Battle Royale like the book" or "we don't want to be like every other BR." ...The social aspect is 90% of the reason we even played games like PUBG, that we can squad up with our friends vs the world. Shows a disconnect with the casual players who don't just want a loner solo repeated random-weapon duel simulator.

I foresee a similar phenomenon for ranked 1v1 with the planned BO5/FT3 format for it. "The point is to have fast matches." Trying to explain the lack of time to adapt to cheese, and that the perception of not having enough time to adapt (whether it's a valid belief is NOT the most important factor here) to such things, falls on deaf ears. Their fear is that "losing 0 - 5 is going to feel slow and terrible for noobs". Isn't that what ELO is for? "No one wants to play a 9-round game". Except plenty of people would be glad to play a neck-to-neck bo9/ft5 that goes to 5 - 4... people of all skill levels love close matches... I really don't understand this part.

Frontline's story, map designs, and black ops development as a whole... this has been covered extensively by release players enough already.

I had high hopes Horde's potential and enjoyed its flow in Taiga in alpha (well, beta). But releasing it as is, especially with ladders and all, really struck me as odd. This and the fact that minute-job player clip brushes on Taiga trees were never added despite doing a rework on the bridges (which takes more than just a few minutes) also really strikes me as odd.

Weapon balance is the smallest offender imo. Everything's generally useable. Things like unreadable accels, broken stabs, and stamina warfare duels are problems with other systems, not the weapons and their values themselves. Even the purportedly overly safe low risk high reward weapons like Zweis and Halberds and Spears would be balanced if they were highly compelled to wear mail torso or forced to give up helmet + lvl 2 legs entirely if they wanted plate torso (so that even a BS/LS can one or two shot them with precision).

Even the expectations for their own game feels low. "It was naturally going to fall to a regular 5k, the genre is too niche." At the same time, they are so undermanned that that may be a realistic assessment rather than a sabotaging self-fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say though. But what I do know is that, beyond just the core melee mechanics, there is some unrealized potential gestalt of a game that so many of my IRL friends who have never touched Chivalry (or have sub-10 hours) were really hyped for. We played a boatload of Mordhau, were disappointed by things like lack of team BR and the FL maps, but had a blast with dueling, farming pubs, seeing people get ballista'd and catapulted while yelling, etc. It used to just be the lack of manpower that, while saddening, made me understanding of the devs' limitations and timelines. However, I can no longer be naively optimistic about decisions irrespective of time that being made. There seems to be some sort of disconnect with players both current and prospective, as evidenced by the level designs, modes being released in their state, comments on game modes, etc. Mordhau is a strange experience where extreme love and detail is evident in things like the melee system, and then utter detachment and lack of direction is palpable in other aspects. Highly detailed and beautiful maps outfitted with boring lighting and horrendous, worse-than-Team Fortress Classic early maps' chokepoints and design choices.

Maybe these two new maps and 1v1 ranked mode will be awesome. I won't be around to try myself for their release assuming it's coming this quarter. Mordhau has a base that can take it back to 30k+ concurrent players on the regular imo. Whether or not that can be realized before SDK, and whether or not it ever will, I guess I'll see when I randomly check up steamdb a couple years later.

tbh a "Laserswords" mode would be able to circumvent a lot of the problems even the combat system of this game is bound to.

Wall jumps, as an advanced analog movement option, which helps immensely in not getting surrounded in 1vX and adds enormous dynamics and verticality. It was one thing Mirage did really right: constant movement and outmaneuvering. Force play in general just has high potential if it's analog, highly controllable, and most importantly, not too floaty.

Stormtrooper projectiles, slower than arrows and much noisier both visually and aurally, making them much easier to react to and thus parry so they feel less cheap. In return, these are blasters you can repeatedly shoot (unless sniper), and shooting against other blaster bros is more akin to traditional FPS. Basically, a lasersword guy is untouchable if you're using a blaster in a 1v1, but have two blasters from different angles and he has to be much more tactical about his positioning now. Adds actual strategy and tactics rather than just being ranged annoyance.

part 2:

181 165
  • 11 Aug '19

So based on that screenshot,

  • You're connected to an official server in Sydney,
  • Using the ping utility (presumably is Umbriel 13), you see a round trip to for ICMP packets of 74 ms,
  • "Ping" in the game, which is the round trip time for UDP packets plus processing time by the server, is 88 ms.

So your client request takes 36 ms to arrive at the server, is getting handled by the server in 14 ms, and takes another 36 ms to get back to you. And you'd like us to be outraged at the server?

10 20
  • 20 Jul '19


71 83
  • 23 Jun '19

@Brackish said:
What do you mean, "Nice try", Gambit?

Im all seriousness, why do words from people you don't know effect you? You don't know them, you probably never will, so who cares?

Knight 766 3322
  • 1
  • 10 Apr '19

Don't get me wrong: I had a lot of fun with Mordhau's BR, it created situations that I had never seen before, simply because it required people to get crafty in order to win. It's not a bad mode, but it's far from polished, and would rather see this mode get introduced in patch sometime after release rather than pushing it out immediately and trying to pretend like its one of the main modes / selling points of Mordhau.

Wait times will kill this mode. Apex and Fortnight have wait times of around 10 seconds after finding a server with matchmaking. Not only does MordBR have a lobby wait time of 60 seconds, it's also slower to fill a server in the first place because there are going to be way less players than Apex and Fortnight. Mordhau is going to be far more frustrating than a typical shooter BR due to most players being inexperienced with melee slashers, so combined with a long wait time between games it'll be a miserable experience for most noobs.

Random spawns are a half-assed way of doing things. I understand the developers don't have enough time to implement something more creative, but again that's why I think BR should be temporarily removed until they have time to polish it sometime after release. It's possible to get some really ugly spawn positions where your only real option is to run away from the people near you who are going to get weapons first, and you may end up just running into someone else with a weapon instead. The dungeon spawns are especially fucked.

Looting is uninteresting. Pretty much any non-peasant 2h weapon will do just fine, because almost every engagement is going to be a 1 on 1 duel. Although it seems exciting to get a big drop like a Halberd or Zweihander early on, a good dueling weapon like Longsword is genuinely one of the best drops you can get. Armor is uninteresting because once you get it, that's it: it doesn't degrade. Loot distribution is also fucked, even after the second weekend test. Inventory management requires dropping and picking items back up currently.

Knight 766 3322
  • 9 Apr '19

@Jax said:
I think you're over-estimating how competitive the 3 main modes are

New players will use these main modes to learn the game, and some of them will eventually want to get into competitive play. What about the players that use 3rd person primarily, only to eventually learn that 3rd person is utterly shunned by the competitive community as a whole, outright disabled on private servers and/or matchmaking, and probably disallowed in tournaments (player-run or official) too. The general consensus seems to be: "fuck 'em who cares." And I mean, that's fine by me... but I feel like the developers and/or community manager(s) should care.

Crush has said that the newest iteration of 3rd person he's currently working on will be much more fair, but unless 3rd person is so utterly gimped that it's not viable at all, it will still provide significant and unique advantages compared to 1st. And that means competitive players will always look down upon it, argue for its removal, and/or ban it from private servers. Players who come into the game expecting to use 3rd person and play at a competitive level are being set up for failure.

Knight 77 162
  • 1
  • 4 Apr '19




New and drastically improved French knights.

1084 6148
  • 3 Apr '19
 crushed — Art

@Bang said:
3rd person is just exposing underlying problems with the game. Removing 3rd doesn't fix the legibility of instants, drags, ect -it's just a bandaid solution.

It is more a visual/feel problem, it looks and feels stupid to fight against this and it's only viable because of the extra vision. No way you can play like this, as effectively, against any decent player without third person. It is obvious that third person needs some changes, we won't remove it but it will be nerfed.

201 403
  • 3 Apr '19

BR gets my nerves going, but towards the end of every match i dread the frustration of dueling someone who has better equipment or is just plain more skilled than i am. This is very much a duelers game mode towards the end, and on the rare occasion that i win a br i just feel like a big asshole to the guy i killed.

i dont know if 3 man squads would make the game less frustrating... or just cement the asshole feeling of winning at the end. i think what it would do is discourage hiding until the end of the match, which is an easy tactic for winning the whole game so long as you can win the duel at the end.

and of course new players wont feel so helpless with 2 extra boys, give it a try maybe

Knight 697 1611
  • 1 Apr '19

The key thing about what Horde did that the others didn't: it met or exceeded expectations. With AI tweaks and variety, more different enemy types, and designated "boss waves", it only goes up from here even before diving into things like potential objectives or a dungeon crawling/raiding mode as opposed to just Horde.

Hell, imagine that if you kept running away, the Horde diverted their attention to hitting your base's towers/core instead. So, actual tower defense. The Horde's objective would be to destroy four towers, and the normal mooks would only turn to kill you if you were within a certain proximity, though the archers, assassins, and other specialists would axt differently. Some would be carrying bomb objective barrels, some would have it attached to their back and try to melee you, etc.

FL improved a lot, but I think Camp itself is doomed to be a bit boring for me for the same reason Battlefield was a boring TO map for me: it's just a wide, open field. Nothing too interesting about that gameplay wise, but it exacerbates the things I dislike about the games most: boring spawn runs, no cover from archers, no clever flanking or outmaneuvering especially in 1vX, and no hiding from horses. I think a smaller, tighter map with more story-connected objectives, way more areas with interesting geometry rather than pure open fields, and consistently short spawn runs would be better both aesthetically and gameplay wise. And the "illusion/aesthetics" part is hugely important. Yeah, TECHNICALLY things like carts or escorting flag holders are just moving capture points or rehashed game modes from 1998, but it does a lot to immerse and have you feel like an actual video game character/m'Knight and they do dynamically change where the focus of the fighting is, i.e. use more of the map's space as time passes. While increasing max running speed with an additional 3 seconds of acceleration + Rush'ing straight from spawn will help reduce run times, I think adjusting spawns themselves to be no more than 50m away is still critical to preserve the video game illusion aspect that you're always only a moment from fighting. Whether that's achieved with dynamic spawn points disconnected from capture points you must fight for, or just pushing all spawns closer and making capping faster to compensate for defenders spawning closer, I am curious to see what will happen.

I think the dev's philosophy for Mordhau BR is just not what I'd prefer, so I probably won't like the mode even if it was perfected. I only ever played BR with friends for that war combat pacing where 90% of it is shooting the shit, casual scavenging, calm Walking Dead moments but with third eye ever slightly open and 10% pure anarchy where skill, positioning, communication, and strategy go a long way but are still under the mercy of some dumb luck too. Mordhau BR seems to be gearing for an incredibly fast but also heavily dueling skill-based focus, all solo. The fast pace clashes a lot with waiting for a new BR to start, spawning in, then getting Zwei'd the first second in, especially when you have a weaker computer.

What would I have preferred? Duos or trios. Games are more fun when social, and Chiv and Mordhau make better team games than duel games anyways. Would also prevent a lot more ridiculous teaming. Being downed and having to be revived means fumbling and getting insta'd isn't an auto game over if your teammate(s) clutch. I never touched the game, but Apex Legends also lets you revive actual dead teammates by capturing some beacon or something, so even dying outright 1 minute in while your friends are still alive doesn't mean you should just leave the lobby. Sharing loot means stumbling upon yet another Bardiche isn't a total waste.

I didn't get to test this FL because it was literally unplayable, some infinite loop of blacklisting the server I was trying to join lol. But concerning the loot table from the first test... Way more emphasis of shitty peasant weapons. Getting something otherwise insignificant in normal modes like an Arming Sword in your first ten seconds should feel like winning the lottery. Vast majority of loot in the cold zones should be rakes, scythes, daggers, rocks, poop, level 1 armor, etc. Level 2 armor, arming sword, falchion, warhammer would be the good stuff here. A rare Bastard Sword spawn here is something that could last you to the end of the game.

The plane dropping system in other BG games meant that going to your favorite hot drop zone immediately wasn't always a possibility. Some games, you should get scrappy with peasant weapons, dung flinging, and getting into a complete prey survivalist mindset against the lucky bastard who got a recurve a minute into the round. Other games, you may not get into a fight until you're decked with some tier 2 pieces and a billhook.

1084 6148
  • 3 Apr '19
 crushed — Art

We are looking into potential improvements for the inventory and more tweaks for the loot distribution, as well as some potential changes for the way the spawning works, to give players more control.

Knight 697 1611
  • 1 Apr '19

Agree with OP and Cswic. You only have one chance to make a first impression. This is the whole philosophy behind why the devs are taking their time to release, no? Why then launch a mode that is so obviously rushed? I feel like the people who seem fine with it being released as is are the ones who really, really love dueling. Cool, but I think that will disappoint most people and their expectations of a BR game such as my friends I have told about Mordhau + it recently having been revealed to have a BR mode. "Wow, that sounds cool. Can you carry me in it?" No, sorry dude. You can queue in, wait to load, wait a minute, then die a few seconds in due to the guy next to you getting a weapon first in your randomly chosen spawns, then spend another few minutes with the same result. Oh, and the one time you managed to get fair equipment, turns out the other guy had 2000 hours in Chiv/Mordhau and is possibly even teaming against you, so good luck with that. Oh, but at least there will be skillbased matchmaking... which takes a lot of games to calibrate and will be irrelevant in the game's launch days of which afterwards you will never play the game mode (and possibly game) again because of the sour taste it left. But at least the few 0.01% of players who consistently 45 - 6 pubs and 30 - 2 duelyards can have a blast winning these solo BRs that feel just like a "single life FFA".

177 457
  • 1 Apr '19

At first I disagreed with you, a couple days ago when we talked about it. However, I've come around to agreeing with you.

I really just don't like that my outcome will now depend on the RNG on if I'm queued with decent teammates, however I think the benefits of 3's outweighs that.

Knight 19 56
  • 31 Mar '19

First Impressions from a noob (600 hrs Chiv, 40ish hours Mordy)

TL;DR - Overall, FL is missing the "soul" of TO because it feels like a disconnected, endless slog of a battle that looks awesome on paper and has great cinematic ragdoll-style effects but ultimately feels like TO's sloppy seconds because it doesn't feel like there's any thread of a story running through each area/objective.

FL seems like it's missing the "soul" that TO once had. If we take everyone's favorite Dark Forest as an example, it feels like both teams are going through a sort of story as the match progresses. Sure, the lore is minimal and pushing the cart is simplistic, but little flavor elements and varied objectives like spilling the corpses into the cistern to spread plague or having two people stand on either side of a gate to lower it, combined with the final epic siege of the fort to kill the royal family, all lead to the player feeling like there's kind of a "story" as the game goes on.

Plus, you'll start to recognize the exceptional players on both teams as the match goes on. You might see a guy with a gold helmet 1v3 and go wow, I better steer clear of him. Then you remember his name and he becomes almost like a miniboss as he's defending the royal family. These mini rivalries create sort of a meta story, combined with the lore elements of the objectives, that make each match of TO memorable and enjoyable even if you occasionally die from a catapult or some nonsense firepot.

FL has almost none of this because the objectives themselves (points and carts) don't really do anything significant. Throwing fire onto blue team's camp tents is neat and a nice throwback to chiv, but the explosive carts and holding points feel sort of uninspired. Perhaps part of that is because they they dont change the terrain at all.

Even in a linear TO map like Dark Forest, you'd have plenty of unique areas to fight around during each stage of the objective. The first two sections are simple with small wooden structures and bridges, but thanks to a bit of verticality they remain interesting (think of the second wooden platform layer during the cistern stage (the one with the gate that two people have to stand on each side to lower) and the log bridge at the royal family part). Whereas FL, or at least Camp, is mostly just a big flat battlefield. Kinda boring. And maybe part of that is because it doesn't change. With TO maps, unique and interesting areas might not last more than a few minutes, so if you want to try something unique, you'll only have a few chances to do so. The experience remains novel in the player's mind because it doesn't last very long, so the fights they have there feel like they have a history and not like it's just a big battle where your last fight could've happened in this match, the previous one, or any other random moment of playing FL.

The attackers have a solid goal to push toward and they know they can make reliable progress that won't be reversed, so they can feel happy about their death if they know it helped push the cart just a few more inches. Whereas defenders can feel extra satisfied when they do finish someone off and clear the cart. They know that they just have to last a few more minutes and they'll win, whereas the attackers need to beat them back just far enough to get the next objective and add more time. Those moments are climactic and exciting because there are reasons to try extra hard during those moments.

TL;DR again

Overall, FL is missing the "soul" of TO because it feels like a disconnected, endless slog of a battle that looks awesome on paper and has great cinematic ragdoll-style effects but ultimately feels like TO's sloppy seconds because it doesn't feel like there's any thread of a story running through each area/objective.

Count 884 3292
Baron 1637 5196
  • 2 Mar '19

Alright. Now that I have everyone riled up, time to delay this indefinitely.

The games begin... now!



The horn sounds, and everybody scatters in different directions, with surprisingly little fighting going on.
Though, elweb, I gotta say, that lighter and rope combination is HELLA sus, dude. Just what are you planning on doing with those?


Vanguard SEIZES the means of destruction from Runagate! With his newfound power, all private property at the Cornucopia will be forcibly redistributed... to himself.

A true Frenchman through and through. Ready to start some riots.
And that's the end of the so-called "Bloodbath", folks. A sum total of zero deaths around the Cornucopia. Let's keep going!


Frise, for whatever reason, decides that this horrible patchie-mutant abomination should continue on living its horrible, miserable life. He lets it flee into the trees.


Jesus fucking Christ! Our first death of the games, and it's none other than Humble fucking bodying Ratt to death. I'm a bit disappointed; I thought Ratt was destined for great things. Sayonara, my drunk Russian artfriend.


"release... fuckign... game already, stupid pigdog," he mutters under his breath as he peers at Elwebbaro through the bushes.


Marox and Max team up to try to find any scraps of leftover Kickstarter money.


Jax accidentally leaks game info on a live stream! -5 HP!


...a shack out of which he immediately begins selling some delicious, piping hot Red Lobster™ Cheddar Bay Biscuits™! Seeing as he's alone in the woods, nobody takes him up on the offer.


That;s not double K.O! hunger Games shit! is a fucking joke..




Rough times for the Christmas Hat Guild. I had high hopes for them!

The first day has come to a close with only two deaths, surprisingly. It seems the forum-goers are more averse to conflict than we were led to believe... but will it last?



The twilight hours find most of the tributes questioning their lives and their sanity.
:( poor Geach, I want to give him a hug right now...
Also, looks like Jax got fed up with some of that SA shittalking. Frise Frisedrags no more!


91={{9001187393}} water dehydration problem solution baba ji in PANEM


"Where.... p...patchie..." twitch twitch


Spook pulls out the banhammer and eradicates communism from the Internet. Ohshitsorry runs away in panic, lest he himself be wiped from existence.

Rest in peace, Vanguard. Forever liberating the wage-slaves in our hearts.


The implications of this conversation are pretty terrifying and I don't really want to imagine how it went down.


"What if... what if Double KO isn't the point of all this? What if I've been wrong this whole time?"


Brutal, some infighting among the devs. Poor elweb just wanted out of there, but alas, nobody runs from the art czars.


And it looks like Marox finally found that Kickstarter money! He's had a chance to hide it from Max while Max was out murdering their colleagues. Will they keep working together, or will one betray the other?? Find out next time on the Mordhau Games!!

Mercenary 179 614
  • 24 Feb '19

screenshotss (81).png
boi bout to get launched into the stratosphere