Nah doesn't matter if hitboxes match the models on this game. That's not what the game is about at all. Just stretch that things hitbox all around the player in all directions, nobody will notice.
Carrots were purple, white or yellow 1100-1600 AD. Modern carrots are manmade, cultivated vegetables that don't exist in nature as is every fruit and vegetable you find in the supermarkets.
@Pred said:
This much of Chivalry lore was enough tbh:
There is a kingdom
One side is loyal to the king of that kingdom
The other party wants to topple the old system. Malric is in this one.
It was Team Objective which gave fighting in Chiv a structure. You were fighting to accomplish things, they were kinda-sorta sometimes related to lore, but nobody really cared, because accomplishing these things was fun in itself. You needed to do a thing and to do it you had to beat motherfuckers up along the way. If you weren't beating motherfuckers up hard enough, you lost. Simple. Fun.
You can't even call Frontline a TDM because racking up kills means absolutely nothing if you don't control more points. The mode is just waiting for one of two countdowns to run down and you are free to run around and kill some enemies in huge clusterfucks in the meantime.
This comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.
I was expecting something equivalent to an Axe + Warhammer + Wooden Mallet fusion.
However it is as though I'm wielding an Alt-Mode Battle Axe with a Blacksmith Hammer taped to it, slowing it down to Maul speeds.
For my Toolbox Loadout, I was already using 3 points to carry one of the two repair hammers alongside a Quarterstaff, Short Sword, Axe, Warhammer, or Arming Sword. When weighing the effectiveness of those pairings against this new Heavy Handaxe, I still see a lot of value in those over carrying just the new Heavy Handaxe.
First impressions makes it seem really strong just because it is so vastly different from all of the other equipment in the 3~ point range. It is an all-in-one versatile tool, that big damage per hit and its long windup puts it into a niche spot just like all of those other aforementioned weapons. Extremely slow swings have great drag potential, but is still so slow that most fast weapons should completely shut it down.
After a few hours of using it, however, I'm gradually leaning back to an Arming Sword + Mallet or Quarterstaff + Hammer. A single versatile tool ultimately has inherit restrictions compared to the flexibility I'd get from spending two specialized tools (because I can drop the weapon for a bigger weapon on the ground and keep the Mallet).
I think it's just right where it is.
Could argue for some superficial tweaks, like making the Axe side slightly weaker against T3 armor, denying it the same potential two hit (body+head) kill that the hammer side has (reduce L3 head damage to 50-to-54 or so). As it is, there is no reason to use the hammer side in combat at all against any enemy armor because the Axe is just as powerful and more.
Torn Banner didn't listen to their community asking for Chivalry 2, so they made Mirage. Now it's too late.
Triternion focused so hard on making the combat gameplay better than Chivalry, that they forgot to make maps or gamemodes we actually care about.
no.
Altering Frontline and using the same maps won't work.
Making Frontline go one way and calling it Push while STILL using the same maps, won't work.
These maps are uninspired, sterile, and boring.
These modes, uninteresting, and poorly thought out.
We know, game development is hard, and requires money, time, and effort.
Yes, your gameplay is good.
But the design of the maps, rushed.
The overall quality theme and design of the art, inconsistent
The atmosphere of the game, nonexistant.
The excitement of playing a gamemode you love for years to come, nowhere.
Team Objective IS Chivalry.
The fight between The Agathians and The Masons IS Chivalry.
What the fuck is Mordhau, because it sure as fuck isn't Frontline.
Nor is it these 2 groups of people we have no context of nor care for.
No, I do not believe that Chivalry 2 will have gameplay as good as Mordhau's, nor do I believe that it will ever see the lifespan the first did.
But look at that atmosphere in the 60 seconds we saw of it.
Yeah, shit animations, and probably combat that's just as bad.
But those 60 seconds looked far more visually exciting and interesting than my 600 hours of mordhau gameplay.
You could say that's because it's a cinematic trailer.
However the first Chivalry would argue otherwise.
@Knight of Rosen said:
That's a load of shit, if Chivalry survived solely based off it's "atmosphere" 90% of active servers wouldn't of been exclusively duel servers on a boring as fuck flat custom map.
90% of active servers were Team Objective servers, I don't know what fucking substance you smoked, but you're obviously high as shit.
@✵ Legate Lanius ✵ said:
Chiv MW did not have any proper competitor. So of course many stayed for years. Then games like for honor and others came out, chiv was abandonned for Mirage which its name is fitting for its release, then it started shifting to what is now 200 players on Chiv.
No one in the melee games community cared about for honor, very few, if any, left for it, because it's not an actual melee game.
Literally NO ONE wanted mirage, and TB had abandoned chiv long before mirage.
The only reason the chiv player count went down is because Mordhau became a thing.We were all so excited about chivalry but with not shit combat, and now that we're all so invested in liking this game, we can't go back. It's not chivalry but with better combat. It's better combat wrapped up in an extremely boring game.
Think of it this way.
We would not have played chivalry for nearly as long had it had the mordhau maps and atmosphere. It would have been a complete fucking joke that probably would have killed the genre for a while.
Now imagine Mordhau if it had the chivalry atmosphere and maps.
Chivalry 1's combat was a trash heap.
And we all talk about how shit it was
yet we all played it.
for years
and years
and years
It had a killer gamemode, and incredible atmosphere and drive.
Comparatively, mordhau has a joke of a gamemode, an extremely lackluster and boring atmosphere with no care put into it, and literally no drive to the game at all.
grounded map settings are boring, combined with the fact that you're literally just 2 groups of people fighting for probably no reason, and the fact that these 2 groups are unique in literally no way
on top of the fact that frontline is fucking trash
I don't care how good your gameplay is, if your game is fucking boring.
Chivalry wasn't boring.
Mordhau currently is.
Yes, the combat and animations in the chiv 2 trailer look like a fucking joke.
But everything else?
Everything else looked great.
tl;dr: Please start to understand shields outclassing many core mechanics non-shield users have to master is a real issue that has an actual impact for Frontline. If you want to buff the living shit out of shields for all other modes, feel free to, but then build in a different shield behavior for Frontline that doesn't specifically create advantages for that mode.
From the patch notes:
Holding block with shield will now automatically bring the block back up upon getting hit instead of having to re-press the button
Shield backpedal speed buffed slightly
Shield held block volume now slightly easier again
Kick range vs shield reduced slightly
So. The forums regularly fill with people pointing out correctly that shields in Frontline absolutely present an advantage.
I myself have spent weeks spectating people with low ranks getting away with literally murder thanks to using a shield, because 1h thrust feints are nigh unreadable with very fast weapons and the penalty for thrust - block - riposte - repeat is basically zero with a shield, as opposed to a real parry, where there is an actual window of vulnerability.
Shields:
give immunity to feints, morphs, etc, so anything that the game uses to create depth / force you to learn, gather experience and read fights
give infinite free parry mistakes, because unlike real parries, there is no real mis-parry penalty window at all
can only be kicked when raised, but since lowering them is basically possible instantly, shields can both counter-kick as well as backpedal "for free" and thus close to never get kicked effectively
have a stamina recovery of basically instant if you just lower the shield for a nanosecond
But instead of trying to fix these,you take back the tiny increase to kicks against them which already did exactly nothing (kicks still trigger too slow to hit anyone even remotely moving backwards slowly) and do nothing about the problems.
What I am saying: I have been defending the living shit out of this game everywhere, but this is clearly going the wrong way.
I don't know what about the majority of voices agreeing that shields are a real problem in Frontline is misunderstandable. The few people claiming that shields are "ez to beat" are talking about situations where you either have duel-time available (aka the opposite of what you have in a time sensitive cap zone / ticket countdown map mode) or a number advantage, both of which are nowhere close to equivalent to playing vs nonshielders.
Basically shields replace a ton of mechanics requiring learning, timing and skill with lulzkills and free hits, which, quite frankly, is a bunch of BS. Sure, if you want this to be the way it goes, then by all means, ruin it the way you feel is right, but since this is a feedback section, mine is:
I am no longer a proponent of Mordhau until shields are something other than free parries, free kills, free bypassing of all core game mechanics and have absolutely no downside while coming with a very low point cost.
I am quite exasperated about this, as I don't understand how one can scroll through a few hundred posts of complaints outlining these issues in detail and then making every valid problem even worse in a patch. A lot of other games have taken some of these incomprehensible paths, too, and they eventually just got peppered with negative reviews. I don't feel like this is a game that should see negative reviews, but why on earth are you doing this kind of thing to begin with?
It is not something I can rationally understand unless it is that you don't want to take away the "ez mode pass" gameplay option for utter newbies, which quite frankly just compromises the several years of bothering to develop a melee fighting depth to begin with. Does not make sense to me at all.
Also apparently so far nothing has been done about horses riding through spawns oneshotting people. How that fits into things is also debateable - I can tell you its a pure net negative for gameplay enjoyment (the spawnkillers are the only ones loving it). Spawn protection is essentially nonexistant.
That's my feedback. This is also something that I will bang on about the next 3 years if need be, because I love this game and I refuse to accept it being reduced to "lulzshields".
I think is more like a "King of the hill" like in Chiv, because the map has no objectives to do, it only has the objective of capturing the flag, it is long and boring, it should not be Frontline in my opinion.
Honestly, I still feel shield was implemented, and has been implemented and changed poorly.
It's just honestly so, ... boring to fight them. There is literally not much else you should really do but spam accels at every opportunity to outstam them, kicks have been nerfed a bit, and shield players can now backpedal a bit faster.
Fought a naked kite shield user today and just couldn't hit him, wasn't gonna gamble anything, but it ended up being nothing but stamina wars, I was forced to keep hitting him to get rid of the shield, he backpedaled out of every kick attempt, maybe 2 or 3 in the course of the fight. I was punished twice for it with a stab.
In the end I won from stamina wars, but it just wasn't even fun.
It was literallty just him blocking anything I could do with no skill involved, there was no reason for me to drag or accell to any sort of extent unless I saw him miss an attack I knew I could accel into etc.
Just
Boring
As fuck
2 minutes to kill a naked shield user, you can attack my level of skill sure, but fuck me I'm pretty good this time around, and nobody should have that level of defensive power, that requires no skill, yet lets you use offensive tactics just the same as 1h/2hm weapons can.
Shields should NOT be good in their current implementation no matter how much you want them to be good. It's straight up degenerate gemaplay, and then should let shields be shit tier until they figure out how to make them a skilled mechanic without just making them be a parry. Holding RMB to block because you don't have enough braincells to parry literal 400+ms windups and attacks that move like snails through the air is some of the worst gameplay since Skyrim's melee system. It was even braindead in M&B where there is no windup phase and attacks come out incredibly fast.
It feels like a modded map someone made for chivalry. It's very out of place, the other maps have issues but none feel as gimmicky or unpolished as crossroads.
Honestly I think it's pretty clear that it's filler content while they finish the two new maps. Crossroads is everything I hate about Frontline rolled into one bland and blinding map.
I'd say you should maybe expect faster updates since the game is launched and they're rolling in the money, but yeah never ever ever expect Triternion to stick to any time frame they give you.
- 1
23 Jun
SWSeriousMikeIndividual swings cost no stamina unless they miss.
Dodge costs 10 stamina.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
20 Jun
smellycathawkNah doesn't matter if hitboxes match the models on this game. That's not what the game is about at all. Just stretch that things hitbox all around the player in all directions, nobody will notice.
15 Jun
chill_clintonLadies and Gentlemen, this is your brain on shields ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
OP please uninstall mordhau.exe and burn your computer.
14 Jun
Donald TrumpCarrots were purple, white or yellow 1100-1600 AD. Modern carrots are manmade, cultivated vegetables that don't exist in nature as is every fruit and vegetable you find in the supermarkets.
12 Jun
marox — Project LeadThis comment is in line with the issues we believe are the root of the problem/dissatisfaction. It's no surprise we spent a long time on the combat and other things around it, that we ended up being a bit short on time when it came to giving the game modes the same treatment. In the end, we did what we could to salvage things by adding some objective support to Frontline under some heavy crunch and shipped it. We thought it'd do well and also we simply couldn't afford for it to not to. Thankfully, it wasn't as bad as it could've been and the game still sold extremely well. But we hear you, and are going to be working to introduce the type of objective-focused mode the community is looking forward to as we go on with development. Sometimes it's hard to hear criticism late in the dev cycle when you're powerless to do anything to fix it, and this was definitely the case leading up to release.
- 1
10 Jun
DenI was expecting something equivalent to an Axe + Warhammer + Wooden Mallet fusion.
However it is as though I'm wielding an Alt-Mode Battle Axe with a Blacksmith Hammer taped to it, slowing it down to Maul speeds.
For my Toolbox Loadout, I was already using 3 points to carry one of the two repair hammers alongside a Quarterstaff, Short Sword, Axe, Warhammer, or Arming Sword. When weighing the effectiveness of those pairings against this new Heavy Handaxe, I still see a lot of value in those over carrying just the new Heavy Handaxe.
First impressions makes it seem really strong just because it is so vastly different from all of the other equipment in the 3~ point range. It is an all-in-one versatile tool, that big damage per hit and its long windup puts it into a niche spot just like all of those other aforementioned weapons. Extremely slow swings have great drag potential, but is still so slow that most fast weapons should completely shut it down.
After a few hours of using it, however, I'm gradually leaning back to an Arming Sword + Mallet or Quarterstaff + Hammer. A single versatile tool ultimately has inherit restrictions compared to the flexibility I'd get from spending two specialized tools (because I can drop the weapon for a bigger weapon on the ground and keep the Mallet).
I think it's just right where it is.
Could argue for some superficial tweaks, like making the Axe side slightly weaker against T3 armor, denying it the same potential two hit (body+head) kill that the hammer side has (reduce L3 head damage to 50-to-54 or so). As it is, there is no reason to use the hammer side in combat at all against any enemy armor because the Axe is just as powerful and more.
- 4
10 Jun
Tim_FragmagnetI'll make it simple.
Torn Banner didn't listen to their community asking for Chivalry 2, so they made Mirage. Now it's too late.
Triternion focused so hard on making the combat gameplay better than Chivalry, that they forgot to make maps or gamemodes we actually care about.
no.
Altering Frontline and using the same maps won't work.
Making Frontline go one way and calling it Push while STILL using the same maps, won't work.
These maps are uninspired, sterile, and boring.
These modes, uninteresting, and poorly thought out.
We know, game development is hard, and requires money, time, and effort.
Yes, your gameplay is good.
But the design of the maps, rushed.
The overall quality theme and design of the art, inconsistent
The atmosphere of the game, nonexistant.
The excitement of playing a gamemode you love for years to come, nowhere.
Team Objective IS Chivalry.
The fight between The Agathians and The Masons IS Chivalry.
What the fuck is Mordhau, because it sure as fuck isn't Frontline.
Nor is it these 2 groups of people we have no context of nor care for.
No, I do not believe that Chivalry 2 will have gameplay as good as Mordhau's, nor do I believe that it will ever see the lifespan the first did.
But look at that atmosphere in the 60 seconds we saw of it.
Yeah, shit animations, and probably combat that's just as bad.
But those 60 seconds looked far more visually exciting and interesting than my 600 hours of mordhau gameplay.
You could say that's because it's a cinematic trailer.
However the first Chivalry would argue otherwise.
10 Jun
Tim_Fragmagnet90% of active servers were Team Objective servers, I don't know what fucking substance you smoked, but you're obviously high as shit.
10 Jun
Tim_FragmagnetNo one in the melee games community cared about for honor, very few, if any, left for it, because it's not an actual melee game.
Literally NO ONE wanted mirage, and TB had abandoned chiv long before mirage.
The only reason the chiv player count went down is because Mordhau became a thing.We were all so excited about chivalry but with not shit combat, and now that we're all so invested in liking this game, we can't go back. It's not chivalry but with better combat. It's better combat wrapped up in an extremely boring game.
Think of it this way.
We would not have played chivalry for nearly as long had it had the mordhau maps and atmosphere. It would have been a complete fucking joke that probably would have killed the genre for a while.
Now imagine Mordhau if it had the chivalry atmosphere and maps.
- 1
10 Jun
Tim_FragmagnetReminder
Chivalry 1's combat was a trash heap.
And we all talk about how shit it was
yet we all played it.
for years
and years
and years
It had a killer gamemode, and incredible atmosphere and drive.
Comparatively, mordhau has a joke of a gamemode, an extremely lackluster and boring atmosphere with no care put into it, and literally no drive to the game at all.
grounded map settings are boring, combined with the fact that you're literally just 2 groups of people fighting for probably no reason, and the fact that these 2 groups are unique in literally no way
on top of the fact that frontline is fucking trash
I don't care how good your gameplay is, if your game is fucking boring.
Chivalry wasn't boring.
Mordhau currently is.
Yes, the combat and animations in the chiv 2 trailer look like a fucking joke.
But everything else?
Everything else looked great.
11 Jun
GAYFISHThe real question is why the fuck can dagger and arming sword 3 shot T3 torso with stabs? What retard thought that was a good idea?
10 Jun
ŁĐFlamarysIt does more damage than the polaxe. In both of the grip versions.
- 1
9 Jun
HalldeiMaultl;dr: Please start to understand shields outclassing many core mechanics non-shield users have to master is a real issue that has an actual impact for Frontline. If you want to buff the living shit out of shields for all other modes, feel free to, but then build in a different shield behavior for Frontline that doesn't specifically create advantages for that mode.
From the patch notes:
So. The forums regularly fill with people pointing out correctly that shields in Frontline absolutely present an advantage.
I myself have spent weeks spectating people with low ranks getting away with literally murder thanks to using a shield, because 1h thrust feints are nigh unreadable with very fast weapons and the penalty for thrust - block - riposte - repeat is basically zero with a shield, as opposed to a real parry, where there is an actual window of vulnerability.
Shields:
But instead of trying to fix these,you take back the tiny increase to kicks against them which already did exactly nothing (kicks still trigger too slow to hit anyone even remotely moving backwards slowly) and do nothing about the problems.
What I am saying: I have been defending the living shit out of this game everywhere, but this is clearly going the wrong way.
I don't know what about the majority of voices agreeing that shields are a real problem in Frontline is misunderstandable. The few people claiming that shields are "ez to beat" are talking about situations where you either have duel-time available (aka the opposite of what you have in a time sensitive cap zone / ticket countdown map mode) or a number advantage, both of which are nowhere close to equivalent to playing vs nonshielders.
Basically shields replace a ton of mechanics requiring learning, timing and skill with lulzkills and free hits, which, quite frankly, is a bunch of BS. Sure, if you want this to be the way it goes, then by all means, ruin it the way you feel is right, but since this is a feedback section, mine is:
I am no longer a proponent of Mordhau until shields are something other than free parries, free kills, free bypassing of all core game mechanics and have absolutely no downside while coming with a very low point cost.
I am quite exasperated about this, as I don't understand how one can scroll through a few hundred posts of complaints outlining these issues in detail and then making every valid problem even worse in a patch. A lot of other games have taken some of these incomprehensible paths, too, and they eventually just got peppered with negative reviews. I don't feel like this is a game that should see negative reviews, but why on earth are you doing this kind of thing to begin with?
It is not something I can rationally understand unless it is that you don't want to take away the "ez mode pass" gameplay option for utter newbies, which quite frankly just compromises the several years of bothering to develop a melee fighting depth to begin with. Does not make sense to me at all.
Also apparently so far nothing has been done about horses riding through spawns oneshotting people. How that fits into things is also debateable - I can tell you its a pure net negative for gameplay enjoyment (the spawnkillers are the only ones loving it). Spawn protection is essentially nonexistant.
That's my feedback. This is also something that I will bang on about the next 3 years if need be, because I love this game and I refuse to accept it being reduced to "lulzshields".
9 Jun
NapalmBukkakeI think is more like a "King of the hill" like in Chiv, because the map has no objectives to do, it only has the objective of capturing the flag, it is long and boring, it should not be Frontline in my opinion.
9 Jun
SoulcatcherHonestly, I still feel shield was implemented, and has been implemented and changed poorly.
It's just honestly so, ... boring to fight them. There is literally not much else you should really do but spam accels at every opportunity to outstam them, kicks have been nerfed a bit, and shield players can now backpedal a bit faster.
Fought a naked kite shield user today and just couldn't hit him, wasn't gonna gamble anything, but it ended up being nothing but stamina wars, I was forced to keep hitting him to get rid of the shield, he backpedaled out of every kick attempt, maybe 2 or 3 in the course of the fight. I was punished twice for it with a stab.
In the end I won from stamina wars, but it just wasn't even fun.
It was literallty just him blocking anything I could do with no skill involved, there was no reason for me to drag or accell to any sort of extent unless I saw him miss an attack I knew I could accel into etc.
Just
Boring
As fuck
2 minutes to kill a naked shield user, you can attack my level of skill sure, but fuck me I'm pretty good this time around, and nobody should have that level of defensive power, that requires no skill, yet lets you use offensive tactics just the same as 1h/2hm weapons can.
Boring
as
Fuck
Over it
- 2
9 Jun
smugShields should NOT be good in their current implementation no matter how much you want them to be good. It's straight up degenerate gemaplay, and then should let shields be shit tier until they figure out how to make them a skilled mechanic without just making them be a parry. Holding RMB to block because you don't have enough braincells to parry literal 400+ms windups and attacks that move like snails through the air is some of the worst gameplay since Skyrim's melee system. It was even braindead in M&B where there is no windup phase and attacks come out incredibly fast.
- 1
9 Jun
Beautiful Brexit BoyIt feels like a modded map someone made for chivalry. It's very out of place, the other maps have issues but none feel as gimmicky or unpolished as crossroads.
8 Jun
GoatieHonestly I think it's pretty clear that it's filler content while they finish the two new maps. Crossroads is everything I hate about Frontline rolled into one bland and blinding map.
8 Jun
afiNitypatch is bad, your opinion is bad, please discuss
7 Jun
ToLazy4NameI'd say you should maybe expect faster updates since the game is launched and they're rolling in the money, but yeah never ever ever expect Triternion to stick to any time frame they give you.