Mordhau
 Pred
Knight
  • Likes received 2541
  • Date joined 3 May '17
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Knight 693 1593
  • 5
  • 15 Aug
 das

My optimism has faded.

Recently, an interest in a shield rework was expressed, then decided against because devs believe it would do more harm than good to the game's playerbase with shield crutchers being deprived of hold-RMB. When the playerbase has shrunk so much, it's really strange to me that they are so afraid of taking a risk when by their own admission they say held-shields will never be fun and forever be fundamentally broken and clunky.

The stance on BR is unmoving. When I try to explain that the reason BR feels bad for the average player is because they wait minutes for a game to start, only to have it end in seconds, and that even a victory lasts just four minutes, the reply I get is - "if BR was any longer, no one would play it", missing the point of the criticism. Suggest a team-focused BR and you get replies of "that's not a Battle Royale like the book" or "we don't want to be like every other BR." ...The social aspect is 90% of the reason we even played games like PUBG, that we can squad up with our friends vs the world. Shows a disconnect with the casual players who don't just want a loner solo repeated random-weapon duel simulator.

I foresee a similar phenomenon for ranked 1v1 with the planned BO5/FT3 format for it. "The point is to have fast matches." Trying to explain the lack of time to adapt to cheese, and that the perception of not having enough time to adapt (whether it's a valid belief is NOT the most important factor here) to such things, falls on deaf ears. Their fear is that "losing 0 - 5 is going to feel slow and terrible for noobs". Isn't that what ELO is for? "No one wants to play a 9-round game". Except plenty of people would be glad to play a neck-to-neck bo9/ft5 that goes to 5 - 4... people of all skill levels love close matches... I really don't understand this part.

Frontline's story, map designs, and black ops development as a whole... this has been covered extensively by release players enough already.

I had high hopes Horde's potential and enjoyed its flow in Taiga in alpha (well, beta). But releasing it as is, especially with ladders and all, really struck me as odd. This and the fact that minute-job player clip brushes on Taiga trees were never added despite doing a rework on the bridges (which takes more than just a few minutes) also really strikes me as odd.

Weapon balance is the smallest offender imo. Everything's generally useable. Things like unreadable accels, broken stabs, and stamina warfare duels are problems with other systems, not the weapons and their values themselves. Even the purportedly overly safe low risk high reward weapons like Zweis and Halberds and Spears would be balanced if they were highly compelled to wear mail torso or forced to give up helmet + lvl 2 legs entirely if they wanted plate torso (so that even a BS/LS can one or two shot them with precision).

Even the expectations for their own game feels low. "It was naturally going to fall to a regular 5k, the genre is too niche." At the same time, they are so undermanned that that may be a realistic assessment rather than a sabotaging self-fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say though. But what I do know is that, beyond just the core melee mechanics, there is some unrealized potential gestalt of a game that so many of my IRL friends who have never touched Chivalry (or have sub-10 hours) were really hyped for. We played a boatload of Mordhau, were disappointed by things like lack of team BR and the FL maps, but had a blast with dueling, farming pubs, seeing people get ballista'd and catapulted while yelling, etc. It used to just be the lack of manpower that, while saddening, made me understanding of the devs' limitations and timelines. However, I can no longer be naively optimistic about decisions irrespective of time that being made. There seems to be some sort of disconnect with players both current and prospective, as evidenced by the level designs, modes being released in their state, comments on game modes, etc. Mordhau is a strange experience where extreme love and detail is evident in things like the melee system, and then utter detachment and lack of direction is palpable in other aspects. Highly detailed and beautiful maps outfitted with boring lighting and horrendous, worse-than-Team Fortress Classic early maps' chokepoints and design choices.

Maybe these two new maps and 1v1 ranked mode will be awesome. I won't be around to try myself for their release assuming it's coming this quarter. Mordhau has a base that can take it back to 30k+ concurrent players on the regular imo. Whether or not that can be realized before SDK, and whether or not it ever will, I guess I'll see when I randomly check up steamdb a couple years later.

tbh a "Laserswords" mode would be able to circumvent a lot of the problems even the combat system of this game is bound to.

Wall jumps, as an advanced analog movement option, which helps immensely in not getting surrounded in 1vX and adds enormous dynamics and verticality. It was one thing Mirage did really right: constant movement and outmaneuvering. Force play in general just has high potential if it's analog, highly controllable, and most importantly, not too floaty.

Stormtrooper projectiles, slower than arrows and much noisier both visually and aurally, making them much easier to react to and thus parry so they feel less cheap. In return, these are blasters you can repeatedly shoot (unless sniper), and shooting against other blaster bros is more akin to traditional FPS. Basically, a lasersword guy is untouchable if you're using a blaster in a 1v1, but have two blasters from different angles and he has to be much more tactical about his positioning now. Adds actual strategy and tactics rather than just being ranged annoyance.

part 2: https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/19472/lets-face-it-mordhau-is-dying-and-we-all-know-why/?page=3#c50

Conscript 185 472
 Shovonem

There has been many debates about the existence of 3rd person in Mordhau. I never really wanted the 3rd person to be removed mostly because there are players who come from 3rd person games like Mount & Blade and such and removing such feature will decrease the playerbase. However, that does not change the fact that 3rd person gives some very unfair advantage over 1st in team fights as you can still look from corner, kind of look behind and all the 'good stuff' .... you get the idea. Some people have said that it's harder to read attack from 3rd (maybe)... However, there are players who use both and keep switching as they are fighting in team fights. And that's probably the biggest problem. Because even if 3rd has some disadvantages it completely mitigates that.

Here are some clips that I have found from a player of top tier Russian competitive clan (I am not shit talking the guy/calling him anything just to be clear so no salt):

https://clips.twitch.tv/EagerViscousWaspCurseLit

https://clips.twitch.tv//BlindingHungryFriseeKippa

https://clips.twitch.tv/SavoryBombasticWerewolfHoneyBadger

As you will see in the clip, the guy typically plays 1 v 1 with 1st person (I guess it's easier to read attacks). However, whenever he runs away, engage multiple enemies he uses 3rd person quite intelligently. You can call it skill ceiling if you want but I don't think anyone want to see this game devolve into this. If it remains, a lot of competitive games will probably eventually turn into this as this seems quite optimal.

If 3rd person remains, Here are some tweaks I suggest:

  1. Make it so it's harder to peek corner & harder to know surrounding.. It was done to some degree in a patch before release as far as I remember but it's not enough.

  2. Make it so the players have to choose between 1st/ 3rd person and once the map loads and it can not be changed while in a game. It is very crucial because that way 3rd person will have it's advantages and disadvantages.

  3. Identify the other 'not so discussed' advantages and disadvantages of both.. I am talking about things like: doing extreme drags with 3rd person being easier and less risky as you can keep track of your enemy all the time. better footworking and dodging for the same reason, target switching in team engagement MUCH easier and so on.. then balance it out in a way where they are more similar and both are fair in their own way.

Any feedback is appreciated.

1081 1716

Messer, cleaver, mace and heavy handaxe are way too floaty. It's like playing chivalry when these boys come out, cleaver is prolly the most offensive imo. Messer is cheese and would be a copy/paste from Chivalry but for duel hit trades. Cleaver is a messer designed for archers to 2 or 3 shot knights with RIDICULOUS swing manipulation. Pros love using this with bloodlust.

Also, why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Rapier is by no means floaty but I find the stab drags too long and baiting misses from it is awkward. It looks like you've dodged it and suddenly you've taken damage as it homes in on the final frame. Or you think you're a few feet out of range but it keeps flying at you. Git Gud right?

Also I find it absolutely rubbish when I get flinched by rapier in team play. Oh a rapier slash did like 15 damage to my T3 legs but that took down my parry so a maul can hit me. Same nonsense when Qstaff hits my T3 torso/legs.

Why can't we have a light mace? Oh but we got frying pans instead...? Can we please get the light mace/cudgel added with similar stats as the fying pan?

Not a fan of polearms/spears being couchable. Lance should be the couched weapon of the game. I also think Lance deserves to have actual stabs like a spear. Afterall, it can only parry when paired with a shield and falls short to spear in pretty much every category... Sure its longer but ping matters more in my experience as my lance will lose out to spear despite their stats.

Knight 761 3291
  • 27 Jul
 Mittsies

why do weapons with really good swings but horrible stabs get their stabs buffed with super speed? Baxe, war axe, mace and especially messer are really notorious for simply spam stabbing until the inevitable morph or morph feint comes along. Mace and messer should definitely have much slower stabs to be balanced. Sharp tips or not, they're both heavy and messer is still a two handed sword with as much weight as Longsword. A heavy sword with a shitty thrust should not get faster stabs, it should simply have a shitty stab.

Currently at a point in the stab animation, it jumps forward so suddenly that it looks nearly instant. Because of this the stab actually being "faster" (shorter windup and/or release) doesn't even matter that much, although mace stabs are definitely annoying. The thing is, even Zweihander stabs seem instant because of how stabs work right now. I'm honestly surprised that you didn't mention Bastard Sword, which is arguably the most broken weapon in the game right now, especially because of its stabs.

Empress 359 850

we know

I won't bash it too much, but I just hate dieing to RNG and meme crap.

Random archers potshot gets me

Catapult potshots

Horses from behind 1 shotting me

Flinched from horse then scrollwheel'd by shield rapier turtle boi

shield bois making 1vX boring as fuck

naked guy throwing firebombs

naked guy throwing javelins

gambled because everyones a noob and just keeps swinging

nobody really plays the objective

nobody defends a captured point ( literally no incentive to stay there, so once everyone waddles off to the next one naked
lute guy whips out from behind a house and caps it again, enemy team spawns there again zzzzzzzz)

RNG trebushits on camp

horses

spear stab spammers

lute bois on horses

maps too open, too much space for massive clusterfucks of LMB and horses and firepots and garbage, need some tigher areas to fight in

grad literally only decent map

no incentive or reason for anyone to try flank/ take a path other than the one the entire idiot team keeps funneling themselves into

literally was with 9 team members fighting off like 7 enemies, and enemy horse comes flying through us and smashes his face into a wall. ENTIRE TEAM turns around and lmbs the horse, 2 blokes got teamkilled. The 7 enemies just stomped us, i just couldnt even turn my camera away from the absolute retardation lol and pressed end key and ragequit back to duels

nobody has any real reason to try work as a team (or incentive, cause you need rewards now to play as a fucking team )

half team is playing as naked rodents

would win more games if everyone was 3/3/3 greatsword

firepots

projectiles

literally just the air is filled with flying shit you're basically filling your characters lungs with arrows and swords when he breathes never getting a decent amount of time using the games nice melee mechanics before you're sent to the respawn screen by random shit

absolutely just cannot have fun playing FL personally

1.4k hours spent like 40 out of those on FL rest on duels

sad times

end halfdrunk rant

Knight 693 1593
  • 24 Jul
 das

Have you ever... actually used these weapons or fought against someone good using them?

Strike headshotting anyone with a 60cm weapon is impossible against anyone with good footwork. Granted 99.9% of the playerbase doesn't have good footwork.. Good thing the Mace doesn't need to headshot to 2HTK. This is a huge deal and is basically the selling point of the mace in the first place.

Mace has a 475ms stab... this is INSANE. 500ms is already good yet the Mace has an even faster one than that. "Muh damage". The point of the stab is to flinch and condition enemies to fall for your mixups that lead to hitting them with the whack.

Mace has ridiculous stamina values, incredibly important for duels.

The second most important point after Mace's 2HTK on plate torso: the slow strikes means it can DRAG.

534 286
 Gambit

I generally don't like server advertisements in forum topics, but I see a lot of people complaining about the things in the title, so I thought they might appreciate knowing this exists.

I like the objective play of frontline but everyone gets frustrated when they just want to chop some heads off and can't even leave spawn without getting catapulted, killed by a horse or blocked by a team mate. I appreciate these things exist, but always good to have options.

Full list of things blocked on this server
https://pastebin.com/raw/1hfQqad9

One server is located in London and another in New York. You can connect in the console with the commands below

London server

open 134.209.27.52

or search

[EU] Gambit's FL - No range/horse/catapult/shield - NX.IE

or just search

NX.IE

New York server

open 165.227.85.7

or search

[NA] 48 slot FL - No horses/catapults/ranged - NAE4.NX.IE

Some noteworthy settings

  • 0.2 team damage
  • 120 tick
  • Default map is grad
  • All frontline maps are in rotation

If you feel something should be added back just comment below. Only thing I'm currently considering is smoke bombs.

I have a signature

13 24
  • 10 Jul
 Khakedais

@bobbydigital said:
They can't even sort out the few maps they have.

There's too much trolling allowed in these maps, groups of the enemy capturing your ballista and shooting your team in the back from your own base. Yet you can't useless shoot the enemy with that same ballista due to it's position but it's in the perfect location to shoot your own people in the back. . . .no map testing.

Mountain peak, blue sided.
taiga turned in to blue sided map.
Camp red wins most of the time. Cata + better ammo crate locations.
Grad, I see red spawn camped a lot but seems to be a somewhat balanced map.
Crossroads, never play it to find out if it's balanced because it's just that terrible and should have been removed from the game.

Then you have the spawns locations, bottlenecked or open. You spawn around the enemy, they spawn around you. Someone dies just after they spawn. . .

There's also no effective way to counter trolls. On several maps, one guy with a fire pot can effectively destroy a team's efforts to win by throwing firepots in the way of the small chokepoints you need to best get to the frontline. If votekicking was actually accessible instead of this roundabout funsies with opening the console unless you're lucky enough to have them say something in chat. Why isn't there an automatic kick to dealing a metric fuckton of friendly fire in a row? There's no scenario where it's not sketchy that someone does a thousand friendly damage in the span of five minutes.

Knight 7636 14014
  • 12 Jul
 ToLazy4Name

How does one even begin to explain how bad this post is

Horses have a 1 shot that outranges you no matter what and shields negate over half of the game's mechanics. They need changes.

Conscript 673 1493
  • 12 Jul
 ohshitsorry

necroing this, so that newcomers will think this is relevant >:)

394 589
  • 7
  • 11 Jul
 smug

Yeah they missed their chance at a mainstream breakthrough, but there's not much they can do about it now. The hard pill to swallow is that Chiv/Mordhau's combat platform just doesn't appeal to a vast majority of players. 1v1 won't bring back many players since it's a niche format no matter what game. Mordhau's best bet was AT RELEASE to have had a 6v6 TO game mode with ranked, Frontline was a massive mistake and utter failure I think. It's basically all the worst parts of Mordhau in one turd package.

If there wasn't the massive novelty of being a medieval sword fighting game, if you were to judge Mordhau objectively, it was released as a very barebones and incomplete product. The product of being too hyper focused on the combat system, while ignoring other things around it that make a successful game. Right now the competitive Mordhau scene doesn't even have a proper game mode to scrim/play because there just isn't one aside from Skirm, and Skirm is boring and one dimensional.

Knight 7636 14014
  • 11 Jul
 ToLazy4Name

Me one shot big rock stick no long enough >:^(

80 116

Mord doesn't need maps, it needs a GAME MODE. People played chiv for years because of TO. No one will be playing mord for years because of frontline. No amount of maps will solve the issue that is FL.

777 1029

@Shitscrubber64 said:

@Jax said:
We're really bad with timelines, we thought the game would originally come out in march 2018 - we're working on some things (new maps, ranked, etc) and they're nearing completion. We'd like to give more concrete estimates but it's hard without layers of project management and staff, as it stands at the moment we've got 9 devs all working remotely.

Assuming you already have at least the occasional Discord session with the other devs for a status update, the only missing link here would be a community manager.

If you don't have one yet, hire one.
If you already have one, fire him/her.

Screenshot (367).png

awkward

394 589
  • 4
  • 28 Jun
 smug

Not really atm.

The devs really need to step into the shoes of a pub player and realize that the game isn't all that fun for them right now. It's quite clear they spent too much time on certain aspects of the game and forgot to test important stuff like maps/horses etc.

Catering to the chiv community can only get you so far, and if your goal is to play with the same people once again for 5 more years instead of growing the game continue on this path you are treading.

777 1029

@DrGert said:

@smellycathawk said:

@Goatie said:
I am currently burned out as Front line is a mess and all maps besides camp seem to be badly designed.

was about to jump on you and suggest Grad is a good map, but again, the final objectives are VERY BADLY DESIGNED. Both of them.

TBH I really don’t think I can recall ever actually killing the king in blue spawn to win the match.

I've seen it / done it a number of times. The entire objective is a joke for a multitude of reasons.

I have nothing better to do so let's think of some.

  • The VIBs "very important bots" don't follow the mechanics of the game. no-flinch is not fun to deal with under any circumstances. Intentionally breaking the fun mechanics into non-fun mechanics in an attempt to make a failure of an idea for an objective work is not how game design works...
  • Through no fault of the person actually siegeing the castle, battling through the spawn points, and battling the VIBs, the VIBs can become invincible mid-fight. LOL
  • the guy in the dungeon can be exploited because he refuses to walk on the trap door. u can just stand there and stab him.
    -There is no reason a player couldn't be made a VIP here or something.

I think this final objective ruins the only map that could actually have been really really good and I'm surprised it doesn't get more attention for being the sad bad bad terribly bad and sad joke that it is.

EDIT: Almost any other mechanic or design choice in this game there is going to be some contention as to whether or not it is good or bad as it is. But I honestly cannot see anybody defending this as a fun or well-designed final objective, even with all the badd opinions lurking around the forum.

274 320
  • 1
  • 28 Jun
 DrGert

I think it takes 2 maybe 3 seconds of standing in fire before you die... I mean like DEAD. I have fallen over drunk in fire pits
for "2 to 3" seconds and walked away with some red skin and singed hairs.. BUT DEAD? I think not.

Fire bomb dps is far to high.

CHANGE MY MIND.

102 72
  • 28 Jun
 smokratez

Fire bomb is another one of those annoying things devs won't change, even though people complain about it.

48 55
  • 25 Jun
 PartyClass
  • I should get the same level of benefit as a person that can tap left click and get a double kill with no skill.

Please explain, what is this no skill double kill left click mechanic I can abuse?

Knight 46 67

taps left click. Gets parried.