Mordhau
 Budd
  • Likes received 56
  • Date joined 3 Aug '19
  • Last seen 14 Sep '19

Private Message

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So why is Ranked mode so important when it only appeals to a portion of the community? How do you plan on getting back the players who wanted to play the game for the fun of it and not go full Comp mindset on the game? This only backs my theory that the game was built for Comp players and no one else. How can you even have a ranked mode if there are still issues with the core gameplay? Once again like i said in an earlier comment.. New content is not worth a damn thing unless current content works properly. I was stuck with dual servers for 2 years in alpha when i wanted to just play the game, getting repeatedly shit on by people who don't do anything else with their spare time other than play Mordhau over and over in a game i bought for casual play is beyond annoying. It was nice to have that influx of players after launch and to finally be able to play other game modes but that lasted all of maybe 2 months before player numbers dropped and the people left were Comp mindset players who came to Mordhau from Chiv after launch and very blatant smurf accounts. It honestly feels like the same shit again just with even more people.. i really hope you have something else you are pushing out to appeal to casual players if you hope to make anymore money off this game because i am sure as hell in it's current state not recommending it to anyone until then.
At this point this game to me is just an updated Chiv because the same toxcity and dumb ass combat styles and broken weapon meta's are settled in and people are taking full advantage of it. Players don't like it and they don't like seeing lack of fixes to these things either.

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probably just steam global mods being weirdos

Duke 5526 13171
  • 18 Aug '19
 Jax — Community Manager

The reason before this is that our backend systems for progression are pretty broken - there's not much we can do to fix the current system, as it's just not designed for what we're telling it to do.

That being said, it's looking like the next update will most likely introduce a new backend system that will fix these problems and be much less prone to errors.

Duke 5526 13171
  • 18 Aug '19
 Jax — Community Manager

At the moment we're doing heavy bugfixing for ranked and a lot of the new tweaks that are incoming.
The way it's looking is that we're most likely going to drop an update with ranked, gameplay/general improvements and quality of life features first (also probably a bit of a rebalance to xroads), and then release another update relatively soon afterwards with the new maps and anything we didn't get sorted for the first one.

Our reasoning for potentially doing it this way is that there's no good reason to hold up Ranked and general improvements for the maps. As for the maps, there's been more of the same, a lot of optimization work and now we're also setting up gameplay logic (like frontline objectives, spawn points for game modes, different playable areas for each, I'm pretty sure Horde/BR setup as well). A point to note is that Feitoria needs a lot of work for optimization, since it's such a big and visually dense map with interiors and stuff - that's not to say the map will run badly, but that it needs a lot of optimization work so it doesn't run badly. This optimization work is time consuming, but it can't really be 'sped up' by throwing the whole art team at the problem; it just takes time.

As for the SDK and Invasion, these are long term goals we want to start working on ASAP. We're focusing on the short-term stuff (maps and ranked, etc.) because we realize there is a lack of content currently, and we want to fix that before starting work on the big things that will take up the bulk of our manpower. Mod tools will be awesome as they let the community make the content they want, but if it takes us a few months or more to get an SDK working it doesn't make sense to drop everything else and work on that, while the base game is sorely lacking in content. Invasion is something that is currently in the 'on-paper' design phase, and while it will be a big task to make, it shouldn't take forever, as we're most likely using existing maps for it.

Duke 5526 13171
  • 18 Aug '19
 Jax — Community Manager

The thing is the SDK will take a lot of resources (ie manpower) to get working, it doesn't make sense to do it before having a more acceptable amount of base content - if we dropped everything to work on it now, we wouldn't have the content. Working on it post content-update, we'll have more stuff in game that will make the small official content drought more bearable than now.

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  • 18 Aug '19
 smug

The skill ceiling for this game in 1v1 is lower than Chiv, and the skill floor is relatively low compared to other niche games. There's no execution barriers like the elaborate drags in Chiv. Teamgames and 1vX currently has a higher skill cap, but the latter is currently broken meaning it's impossible for a good player to win a 1vX vs other good players barring the X making huge mistakes. Compare learning Mordhau to Quake or Tekken 7, there's literally no comparison. Just learning your movelist in Tekken is harder than anything in Mordhau, and that's not even including shit like learning the various ways to get up off the floor and understanding how that influences matchups, or how about learning how to break command throws which requires you to read animations and is more indepth than anything Mordhau has to offer defensively? Also for a game that prides itself on you having control over your attacks, it's actually crazy how much control you DON'T have compared to Chiv.

People aren't leaving this game because it's inaccessible, people are leaving because it gets repetitive and Frontline is full of cancerous mechanics like fire bombs/horses/body shot Javs. Not to mention the maps are dogshit.

Knight 928 2545
  • 17 Aug '19
 Pred

@Budd said:
and god do I wish the dev team was 15 people, 5 extra people to get shit done would be literally like 200% faster.

I doubt it would help much, because all these constistently terrible decisions are made by someone who is already on the team and it's not something a few new hires would be able to fix.

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  • 14 Aug '19
 RifleInfantry

Introduction
One of the most frequent suggestions for Mordhau is some kind of gunpowder arm to accompany the Renaissance and Early Modern cosmetics and armaments. This idea has led to lots of controversy and debate; certainly, it’s brought back some ugly memories of the unbalance in Chivalry: Deadliest Warrior and its pirate gunnery.
While it’s difficult to see muskets and pistols having any place in Mordhau at all, there is one firearm that could carve out a niche: the handgonne. A familiar friend to European militiamen and skirmishers from the 14th to 16th centuries, this primitive, hand-ignited, hip-fired gun is the perfect choice for a heavier, almost artillery-like weapon for the archers, a contrapoint to the regular bows designed less for sniper wars and more for supporting your team with powerful shots.

New Doc 2019-08-18 00.25.18_1.jpg

What does it do?
In short form: It’s a pricey, slow, loud, heavy special ranged weapon that behaves more like you’re carrying an Engineer artillery piece than a handy bow. Its power is very similar to the Chivalry heavy crossbow, but it’s rebalanced to be less of a point-and-shoot implement and more of a strategic, close-range weapon necessitating good positioning, timing, and aim- most notably, requiring steadying on a map surface for precise shots.

Why handgonnes and not the heavy crossbow?

  • Handgonnes are loud and smoky. Visibility is the trade-off for power; good positioning is thus a key skill to not get whacked. Heavy crossbows are far easier to end up as near-silent and uncommunicative of their presence and killing power.
  • Handgonnes have numerous effects (see Behavior in Detail) that are better communicated with the imagery of a gun than the crossbow. It's more difficult to, for instance, justify having to fire a heavy crossbow from the hip, or to buy an arrow messing with shields compared to a bullet.
  • A handgonne is easier to tell apart from the regular crossbow (esp. at a distance) than a heavy crossbow. It's its own shape and animation, same as the bows to the crossbow.
  • By making the handgonne its own weapon in its entirety, rather than a variant of the existing crossbow, variations can be achieved (see below in Extra Thoughts).

Weren't guns shitty and annoying in Chiv: Deadliest Warrior?
Yes, they were- and they were also comparatively modern flintlock weapons dating to the 18th century. The big difference that makes- they're self igniting, so you can just point and shoot them, as well as aim down the barrel. There's no difficulty scoring kills with those kinds of weapons, and they wouldn’t really be a good fit for a regular Mordhau arsenal item.

The handgonne, meanwhile, is more of a handheld artillery piece than any musket. It’s very difficult to use as a point-and-shoot implement, and suffers significantly from damage and velocity falloff at range, necessitating close range placement and timing. Its best use is when it’s steadied; however, the gunner must still keep a watchful eye out for archers, as he’s very vulnerable to Huntsman counter-archery and close range attacks.

Behavior in Detail
The handgonne would cost 11 points, coming with 8 rounds of ammo and a powder horn on your hip (counting as a quiver for Huntsman purposes).

To start attacking, you must ignite the handgonne. This involves holding the handgonne with one hand, and inserting a lit match into its touch-hole with the other. Once ignited, the handgonne smokes and hisses for a set period of “fuse time” lasting 2.5 seconds, before finally firing. You may cancel the attack up until the moment of ignition, after which the weapon must continue the sequence.

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Aiming may be done before ignition and during the fuse countdown. Unlike the bows, handgonnes lack a sweet spot for aiming, and always sway significantly during normal firing. The handgonne may be steadied (a 500ms action for placing and removing the weapon) against map surfaces such as windowsills and short walls; in this state, you cannot move, but the sway is significantly reduced, enabling more accurate firing.

New Doc 2019-08-18 00.25.18_4.jpg

Firing kicks up a big boom and a cloud of smoke. The handgonne bullet travels at 1.5 times the speed of the crossbow bolt, and is extremely powerful; at point blank, like the heavy crossbow from Chiv, it insta-kills any armor tier save T3 with a headshot, and T0 and T1 torsos with one hit. However, it is affected by falloff; as it travels, the bullet loses damage and velocity, becoming significantly less threatening at range.

Within 20 meters, if striking a raised shield, it will knock it away identically to a normal disarmament. Planted pavise shields struck by a bullet within this range will be knocked over as well.

Visually, handgonne bullets are slightly different from most tracers; they are a bold yellow, and whistle in passage. Like any other projectile, they can be parried.

Reloading the handgonne is stationary, and involves a minigame; you must repeatedly hit LMB to ram the bullet and charge down. Though dependent on user speed, the minimum time required is 4.5 seconds.

Closing
While the topic of gunnery in Mordhau remains controversial still, I remain confident that it can be done in a satisfying and balanced way. I hope that with this suggestion I’ve made my two cents in a way that advances and improves the discussion yet. Feel free to leave your thoughts, questions, and responses anywhere it’s found.

Here is a Google Docs version of this suggestion for cleaner viewing/posting elsewhere. Figured I'd include it for completeness.

Extra Thoughts
Ideas of mine I’ve thought up in relation to the handgonne. Not necessarily as fleshed out, balanced, or able to fill a niche, but still worth including as a footnote.

New Doc 2019-08-18 00.24.45_1.jpg

Tiller Gonnes cost 8 points. Compared to the regular handgonne, the tiller gonne is much weaker; it can’t instakill T1 torsos at any range, and may only knock away shields within 10 meters. It cannot be steadied against map surfaces at all. In return, it’s noticeably faster to aim, ignite, fire, and reload, and sways moderately less when firing from the hip. It can be thought of as the “recurve bow” of handgonnes.

New Doc 2019-08-18 00.25.18_6.jpg

Bombards are artillery vehicles similar to Catapults, and are pushed and aimed in much the same way. These primitive cannons fire solid shots on a flattened arc. The cannonball, unlike the catapult, does not deal splash damage on impact; however, it is capable of body penetration, and will sail through enemies it hits, instantly killing them and continuing on its path. It deals extremely high damage to wooden structures of all kinds (doors, ballistas, barricades, etc.) making it ideal for besieging defenders.

New Doc 2019-08-18 00.25.18_5.jpg

Serpentine Arquebuses are a form of basic matchlock gun. These would best be suited as map pickups, being the closest thing to Deadliest Warrior style point-and-shoot guns- aimed from the shoulder, they’d have crossbow-style sweet spots and very little ignition fuse time (on the order of half a second). Compared to the regular handgonne, they are significantly weaker; the bullet suffers somewhat less from falloff, but cannot defeat shields at any range and may only instant kill on headshots to T1 and below. Of all the guns this is the most iffy and isn't really necessary as a niche gun in the main arsenal.

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  • 16 Aug '19
 Nemalp

@Peacerer said:
From a million sale to this... concurrent players online worldwide right now.

2825 Bordhau.JPG

Tbf you picked the worst time to check. It's too early for EU and too late for US

Edit: it actually says what time the data is from so my argument is invalid. My bad

Knight 697 1610
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  • 15 Aug '19
 das

My optimism has faded.

Recently, an interest in a shield rework was expressed, then decided against because devs believe it would do more harm than good to the game's playerbase with shield crutchers being deprived of hold-RMB. When the playerbase has shrunk so much, it's really strange to me that they are so afraid of taking a risk when by their own admission they say held-shields will never be fun and forever be fundamentally broken and clunky.

The stance on BR is unmoving. When I try to explain that the reason BR feels bad for the average player is because they wait minutes for a game to start, only to have it end in seconds, and that even a victory lasts just four minutes, the reply I get is - "if BR was any longer, no one would play it", missing the point of the criticism. Suggest a team-focused BR and you get replies of "that's not a Battle Royale like the book" or "we don't want to be like every other BR." ...The social aspect is 90% of the reason we even played games like PUBG, that we can squad up with our friends vs the world. Shows a disconnect with the casual players who don't just want a loner solo repeated random-weapon duel simulator.

I foresee a similar phenomenon for ranked 1v1 with the planned BO5/FT3 format for it. "The point is to have fast matches." Trying to explain the lack of time to adapt to cheese, and that the perception of not having enough time to adapt (whether it's a valid belief is NOT the most important factor here) to such things, falls on deaf ears. Their fear is that "losing 0 - 5 is going to feel slow and terrible for noobs". Isn't that what ELO is for? "No one wants to play a 9-round game". Except plenty of people would be glad to play a neck-to-neck bo9/ft5 that goes to 5 - 4... people of all skill levels love close matches... I really don't understand this part.

Frontline's story, map designs, and black ops development as a whole... this has been covered extensively by release players enough already.

I had high hopes Horde's potential and enjoyed its flow in Taiga in alpha (well, beta). But releasing it as is, especially with ladders and all, really struck me as odd. This and the fact that minute-job player clip brushes on Taiga trees were never added despite doing a rework on the bridges (which takes more than just a few minutes) also really strikes me as odd.

Weapon balance is the smallest offender imo. Everything's generally useable. Things like unreadable accels, broken stabs, and stamina warfare duels are problems with other systems, not the weapons and their values themselves. Even the purportedly overly safe low risk high reward weapons like Zweis and Halberds and Spears would be balanced if they were highly compelled to wear mail torso or forced to give up helmet + lvl 2 legs entirely if they wanted plate torso (so that even a BS/LS can one or two shot them with precision).

Even the expectations for their own game feels low. "It was naturally going to fall to a regular 5k, the genre is too niche." At the same time, they are so undermanned that that may be a realistic assessment rather than a sabotaging self-fulfilling prophecy. It's hard to say though. But what I do know is that, beyond just the core melee mechanics, there is some unrealized potential gestalt of a game that so many of my IRL friends who have never touched Chivalry (or have sub-10 hours) were really hyped for. We played a boatload of Mordhau, were disappointed by things like lack of team BR and the FL maps, but had a blast with dueling, farming pubs, seeing people get ballista'd and catapulted while yelling, etc. It used to just be the lack of manpower that, while saddening, made me understanding of the devs' limitations and timelines. However, I can no longer be naively optimistic about decisions irrespective of time that being made. There seems to be some sort of disconnect with players both current and prospective, as evidenced by the level designs, modes being released in their state, comments on game modes, etc. Mordhau is a strange experience where extreme love and detail is evident in things like the melee system, and then utter detachment and lack of direction is palpable in other aspects. Highly detailed and beautiful maps outfitted with boring lighting and horrendous, worse-than-Team Fortress Classic early maps' chokepoints and design choices.

Maybe these two new maps and 1v1 ranked mode will be awesome. I won't be around to try myself for their release assuming it's coming this quarter. Mordhau has a base that can take it back to 30k+ concurrent players on the regular imo. Whether or not that can be realized before SDK, and whether or not it ever will, I guess I'll see when I randomly check up steamdb a couple years later.

tbh a "Laserswords" mode would be able to circumvent a lot of the problems even the combat system of this game is bound to.

Wall jumps, as an advanced analog movement option, which helps immensely in not getting surrounded in 1vX and adds enormous dynamics and verticality. It was one thing Mirage did really right: constant movement and outmaneuvering. Force play in general just has high potential if it's analog, highly controllable, and most importantly, not too floaty.

Stormtrooper projectiles, slower than arrows and much noisier both visually and aurally, making them much easier to react to and thus parry so they feel less cheap. In return, these are blasters you can repeatedly shoot (unless sniper), and shooting against other blaster bros is more akin to traditional FPS. Basically, a lasersword guy is untouchable if you're using a blaster in a 1v1, but have two blasters from different angles and he has to be much more tactical about his positioning now. Adds actual strategy and tactics rather than just being ranged annoyance.

part 2: https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/19472/lets-face-it-mordhau-is-dying-and-we-all-know-why/?page=3#c50

Duke 5526 13171
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  • 15 Aug '19
 Jax — Community Manager

The update will have everything mentioned in that dev update post + a lot of general improvements to the combat, crossroads should be rebalanced, weapon changes, shield changes, and some more features. It will be a good update.

EDIT: Wasn't really thinking too hard when I wrote this, maps may or may not be included, and SDK is a long way out. The next update is focused around ranked primarily, but work is being done to get the rest of what's been talked about in that update ready for some point in the future. Sorry for any misinformation.