Mordhau
 HalldeiMaul
  • Likes received 81
  • Date joined 7 May '19
  • Last seen 1 Sep '19

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  • 1
  • 2 Jul '19
 HalldeiMaul

Since this is what summer-bored people are talking about, let's add a slightly cynical-but-likely-real perspective. One where the OP doesn't start out with internet memes and acronyms.

Two months of doing jack shit to moderate a million+ copies selling game, despite huge and visible feedback on all forums related to the game => bad PR and press.
Who could have imagined such an unpredictable outcome? Well, everyone.

If one were cynical, one could say: There is really no issue.
Why?
Because: The profits are already booked, whether or not the game dies down a tiny bit or even if massively.
Since there hasn't been a huge investment in order to address any of the complaints about toxicity across three forums, there's no need to downsize moderators, positions or temps due to a slowdown in sales.

Had it been the real intention to fix any of this kind of behavior, something would have been done, money would have been spent, servers would have gotten moderated. Simple as that. Takes a weekend to recruit a few dozen people and you would have overseers doing at the very least basic server moderation, as any private server with its own admin would have. And forums would get cleaned up far more as well.

I would claim that Triternion is getting exactly what they inofficially wanted anyhow: To be left alone with their version of a Wild West when it comes to ingame chat and forums, while predominantly working on game patches, content and/or, cynical mode again, working on a solid exit plan that keeps most of the surprisingly large sum of money made intact.

I don't write this to say there's any kind of moneygrab conspiracy, nor to claim there's something like burning racism or whatever fever dream one might have on this.
Quite the opposite.
I think what roughly happened is that some folks that did something they all wanted to do lucked hugely into a large sum of money, don't really have a very real-life-life corporate value system or PR awareness, and are simply trying to get on with things.

There's a shitton going wrong from an outside perspective. But for "people who live online", a lot of this stuff is just daily online life, which is why folks here are so incredibly tone deaf to a thread title like the mentioned "kniggas" one. In the overall scope of things churned out in online threads and chats, its just tame in comparison.
In a real world corporate setting, with this kind of verbiage being public to the outside world, people would have been fired, statements issued, apologies made, etc.

So this is where I think this disconnect is from. Which also explains the disconnect between the gaming press - who view this like it would a "normal" game-making outfit - and the bundle of people around Mordhau.

My point is - I suspect there's a lot of artificial shit currently being heaped onto this through this coverage. But I actually think its far less emotional at Tri. Which is also why nobody has given a shit, nor do they currently give more of a shit.
There's just a blindness to all of this, and, again as mentioned before, so long as the money is already spent, refunds no longer possible and the million+ copies sold, what really scary thing is there left to happen if Tri fucks up PR? A bad rep regarding moderation?
So what? The MP world is already toxic AF and people have given up on things changing for the most part. And the actual blobs of "freedom of speech" snowflakes, the ones that think all rules of society that enable peaceful co-existence are fascist oppression measures targeted specifically at their precious little souls, actually eat that kind of thing up and will cheer tolerating toxicity and hate on - no matter how far gone it is.

There is no real leverage or incentive for change. This I believe is the current state of things.

Whether people should want at least a tiny bit of moderation is another subject.
Personally, while I don't love this, I am okay with click-to-mute and keep playing, as the chat does nothing and muting assholes means you miss absolutely nothing, either.

--

As a small Post-Scriptum:
What actually needs some real moderation and is a very real threat to playing however, is griefing.
3 out of 5 times that I play there are people blocking spawn exits, placing bear traps, spikes or plainly sneaking up behind teammates to do teamdamage / teamkills.
These people need to lose access to this and, quite frankly, any game they do this in. I don't give a shit about excuses like "But you can get bored quickly".
Ruining other's game enjoyment is not excused by you feeling entitled by boredom. Go live out your shitty ego offline where people can show you how they feel about this kind of thing in person.

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  • 3 Jul '19
 HalldeiMaul

Personally I wish this kind of attention would be turned towards the nightly curse of abhorrent griefers that only join games to block spawns, plant bear traps and spikes for friendlies and team damage via hitting teammates' backs or outright shooting selfmade ballistas at them.

I feel bad that energy that is hopefully going into more maps (actual FL this time instead of King of the Hill would be my desperate, desperate wish; or, ideally a conversion of existing maps into team objective mode maps to introduce that as a new game mode parallel to FL plus 1-2 new ones on top) is being redirected due to this PR mess.

However, just to be clear - I doubt most people expect the core team to go running after chats instead of improving the actual game. But if you want to do something, conceptualize what kind of active moderation official servers deservce and should have, figure out the amount of temp and permanent positions require and get dedicated people for this.

Or more bluntly: If you are sincere, don't just say "We plan on improving in this regard", get something underway that improves community reporting tools in the next patches and implement someone as a contact point who can actually act on things that spring from that.

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  • 19 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

I scrolled a bit through it..the commentary was painful and maximum cringe.
The fighters apparently did not take themselves or the entire thing very serious (fists and frying pans, wooden shovels).

For a title that sounds like it wants to convey "Competitive matches", this was just awful and painful to see and hear.
I cannot believe this is the kind of thing that gets tens of thousands of dollars as a reward.

I had hoped to see e.g. 4v4 or 8v8 team based matches, maybe a ranked 1v1 duel progression of 12 people from 12 clans pyramiding towards a top 3..

I think I simply don't "get" Twitch. Or, well, maybe I am 25+ years too old for this kind of thing.

Still, good on Mordhau I guess?
Maybe we can use all this popularity and money to expand resources, develop actual Ladders and duel modes and get this all to be more interesting 6-12 months down the line.

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  • 13 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

Happy to see Marox posting about this.
Let's be honest - there's about 6-9 months time in which to gain an extra advantage over Chiv 2, and if by then map count, quality of life features and general development hasn't doubled, a ton of people will get sucked into Chiv 2 if is even remotely better in some aspects, and in general just because someone who likes "Games like Chiv" will obviously buy a game like Chiv. I know I will, simply because there's literally only 2 games like this on the market for me at the moment.

But let's not just fixate on the TO mode, even if I sorely wish for that as well.
If you want the game to keep living, you need to keep the community viable. That means fixing issues like spawnkilling, finally banning griefers and trolls, paying attention to reports about them, and giving the community quick and easy and reliable to use tools for that to begin with.

Since this last bit of cleanup QoL takes very little time to implement compared to building maps and modes, could we maybe rush this so that 5 nights out of 7 there aren't people placing barriers at spawns, beartraps at spawns, teamkilling etc pp?
I'm kinda running out of places where to ask for this and I know I'm not the only one who gets annoyed by playing becoming pointless because 2-3 people team up to grief the shit out of others due to having no life.
Griefers need to permanently lose access to the game, period. Its the only way to keep a community going and put up warning signs for others.

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  • 15 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

Yea, this has made it like 5% better, and I played and saw the same tired old 500 people beating down on 1 guy situations as before in normal Frontline.

Still, it felt SLIGHTLY better in terms of being able to hit them at all. As written, by about 5%. Kick still isn't hitting them worth crap in terms of distance. They write it was increased a good bit - I still had the old "shieldguy backpedals and you kick air and then you get hit from 1h thrust because kick recovery is forever" sadness.

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  • 7 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

If its true that a patch will address this soon then I will just wait to see what that will do.

Other than that, to briefly sympathize with some of you guys: I am tired of hearing that you can "hit around shields", when I have spent 15 hours now watching situations like 3 or 4 people from all angles bash into someone ducking below a shield and absolutely nothing landing until someone either comes up exactly behind him 100% (yes, I've seen hits FROM BEHIND someone get shield-blocked, too, omgwtfbbqsaucehoweven) or the guy ends up squished against a wall and finally some of those slower-than-slow-now-press-slomo-okay-now-imagine-that-slomo-in-slomo-okay-THATS-our-kickspeed kicks land.

And the time between lowering the shield and quickstabbing/swinging seems to be essentially instant.
No.
Just no.

Let's just be honest about what's going on - its that 1h and shield blocks are costing single digit stamina amounts while protecting you better than a Holtzman shield and allowing twoshot-with-head / threeshot kills is not "helping new players". Its screwing up gameplay.

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  • 22 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

Most important change:
Remove it from Frontline rotation, because its a King of the Hill map, not Frontline, and I have to get out of servers every 30 minutes because people keep voting for it and I want to play Frontline in a Frontline mode server..

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  • 13 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

Look man, I got to poison wells and kill a royal family in Chivalry, despite broken bubbles, windup cheese and ballerinas.
That's why I got quadruple digit hours in it.
You bring that kind of thing times two to Chivalry 2 and you're set for sales man, shitty meme combat or not.

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  • 5 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

Quite frankly, Mordhau coming out has stopped me from playing literally anything else.
There's 3-400 unplayed singleplayer games that are actually very well done from the last 15 years that I am quite sure you'll find a dozen or two to enjoy as well.
And if you prefer MP, there's likely to be 2-3 actually good ones of that as well.

Problem solved.

Now, we all need to go back to asking for

  • show team damage
  • being able to report griefers more effectively
  • nerf / remove / "fix" shields more
  • make horses stop being always-hits-you-first oneshot machines with a 500 foot bubble around them
  • moar FL maps

I sincerely hope / have heard that a lot if not most of these are already currently being baked into the next patch - though I doubt shields will get better, because boy, if those ever become more bearable so that single digit ranks can't lead scoreboards anymore, we'll have more salt than the dead sea coming.

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  • 28 Jul '19
 HalldeiMaul

Its all bullshit as basically your chamber will get shieldblocked, then their shield lowering is faster than a kick, AND the kick recovery is slower than the rapier thrust, so all you've just done is handed THEM a free shot on what should have been the entire counter-shield / rapier mechanic to begin with.
And if you disagree, then let's simply add the problem of a basically undetectable / no-tell possible feint window on top of this.

Whatever counter-argument the "nothing is wrong" people have, all I can say is the real ingame experience with people above rank 50 using this shit boils down to - you die regardless of forum flexing of how counterable everything is, period.
While this is the case, the game remains unbalanced AF.
I currently have exactly zero hope anymore for any fixes on any of the issues that have been now known for 8+ weeks, simply because nobody seems to give a flying fuck in general about the game, griefing and broken stuff anymore anyhow.

I've stopped playing until I see some actual change not just in a patch, but in overall attitude in terms of problem awareness. Not caring about pretty much everything that ruins actual game fun does pretty much exactly that - ruin the fun of playing and thus the point of playing.
Which is grossly depressing to me, as I love the generally functioning core underneath all the crap and I would love to add some more triple digit hours played, but nobody seems to want to uncover it.

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  • 28 Jul '19
 HalldeiMaul

If only there were people who had access to the actual core game and its servers, can change who gets access to it, moderate, regulate and overall control who gets to play or not and all those kind of things.

They could, like, you know, ban these kind of people. Like. Permanently.

But then again - where would we get all the great press from about toxicity, racism and general sewage if we got rid of all the people with no life?
So I completely understand why there's no action being taken, its just for the benefit of the overall community.

To maybe highlight this further: That Rhaegar?
That's this guy, with this profile and profile text:

https://steamcommunity.com/id/Rhaegar_Targaryen

Quote
"The famous griefergod and evil genius Rhaegar Targaryen talks about his honorable duty


"I see my work as a contribution to the righteous movement for the holy crusade of trolling and griefing
in Mordhau since the release, as well as in other games. My doings shall not be forgotten and
won't end, as the lord has many ways of access to the game"
(Rhaegar Targaryen - July 28, 2019)
"

--

Well. What can I say. Its just never clear whether people really are griefers, so again, I understand why people with the power to change things would not want to impose on anyone.

Also, is there really an incentive to combat the people who openly are hell bent on getting your game down to 0 concurrent players? Surely that's something every dev dreams of.

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  • 19 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

@HalldeiMaul said:
From the article:
Why is it so hard for other Devs to grow balls and do this?
Gather more community managers, clear out the rot and things will improve.

So maybe saying the devs are cowards is a bit presumptuous, and highly ironic given the context of this discussion.

  1. I said "for other Devs" as in: Developers outside of the ones in the article. While this does include Triternion, I want to make it clear I would want this from everyone, not just Triternion or the guys in the article. I expect that if the gaming industry wants to be more mainstream, adult and even "E-Sports", it should also be normal to not allow griefing, trolling and casual hatespeak, mainly because in any kind of sports or workplace, you would also get disqualified or fired if you acted in any way remotely like this.

Here a quick word directly at this special crowd:
Wanting to be a special "troll snowflake" that gets a free pass to say and do anything anytime anywhere online because whatever made up reason you currently are going with should not be encouraged by rational adults. Yes, you read that right: If having to obey rules in society is too hard on you, you're the one that is the snowflake that can't handle real life, because spoiler alert, all of real life runs based on rules and if you ignore them, you get blocked from access to anything from jobs to stores and services, and, next level shit I know, in several instances simply go to court and subsequently jail. Shocking, yet true. De-snowflake yourself by realizing you don't actually live in this made up, virtual online-only world that you feel entitled to do anything in - hard as it may initially seem. Rules exist and they're not what defines "fascism", no matter how strong your victim complex.

  1. I want to make it clear that I do not currently have any reason to think that Triternion are acting out of cowardice as their motive in anything.

  2. I specifically said there should be a system of community managers - unpaid volunteers that would require their own system of proofing, checks and balances - and not thirteen people who are already busy working on the core game itself. But these CMs need access and priviledges to actually lock out profiles from servers, so yes, a small bit of time involvement would be required there, plus obviously someone doing oversight. But its not the actual moderation itself that would have to lie on the core team. It would neither be realistic nor feasible. As usual a mix of automation and community aided moderation is necessary.

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  • 17 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

From the article:

A second offence leads to a two-hour suspension, and a third leads to an official investigation that may result in a permanent ban.
[..] having clear consequences for harmful behaviour: “sends a message to the community that the developers are taking measures to instil less toxic community norms, and most importantly that they’re willing to enforce those expectations.”

This.
Why is it so hard for other Devs to grow balls and do this?
Gather more community managers, clear out the rot and things will improve.

All of this stuff is parenting 101.
Show the child clear boundaries.
Make better alternatives relateable, clear and understood.
Sanction transgressions reliably.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

Actually saying "60% of the time it works every time" is identical to simply saying "it works 60% of the time".

Buffing shields instead of fixing them is wrong and people who are good with this or happy about it make me sad.

I don't get why there was even any development around parries, feints, morphs and other "depth" if you just put in a "fuck all of that" essentially-cheat-item. No rational logic to me. It would be different if it was balanced, which, despite ongoing claims in these forums, things are not.

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  • 9 Jun '19
 HalldeiMaul

tl;dr: Please start to understand shields outclassing many core mechanics non-shield users have to master is a real issue that has an actual impact for Frontline. If you want to buff the living shit out of shields for all other modes, feel free to, but then build in a different shield behavior for Frontline that doesn't specifically create advantages for that mode.

From the patch notes:

  • Holding block with shield will now automatically bring the block back up upon getting hit instead of having to re-press the button
  • Shield backpedal speed buffed slightly
  • Shield held block volume now slightly easier again
  • Kick range vs shield reduced slightly

So. The forums regularly fill with people pointing out correctly that shields in Frontline absolutely present an advantage.
I myself have spent weeks spectating people with low ranks getting away with literally murder thanks to using a shield, because 1h thrust feints are nigh unreadable with very fast weapons and the penalty for thrust - block - riposte - repeat is basically zero with a shield, as opposed to a real parry, where there is an actual window of vulnerability.

Shields:

  • give immunity to feints, morphs, etc, so anything that the game uses to create depth / force you to learn, gather experience and read fights
  • give infinite free parry mistakes, because unlike real parries, there is no real mis-parry penalty window at all
  • can only be kicked when raised, but since lowering them is basically possible instantly, shields can both counter-kick as well as backpedal "for free" and thus close to never get kicked effectively
  • have a stamina recovery of basically instant if you just lower the shield for a nanosecond

But instead of trying to fix these,you take back the tiny increase to kicks against them which already did exactly nothing (kicks still trigger too slow to hit anyone even remotely moving backwards slowly) and do nothing about the problems.

What I am saying: I have been defending the living shit out of this game everywhere, but this is clearly going the wrong way.

I don't know what about the majority of voices agreeing that shields are a real problem in Frontline is misunderstandable. The few people claiming that shields are "ez to beat" are talking about situations where you either have duel-time available (aka the opposite of what you have in a time sensitive cap zone / ticket countdown map mode) or a number advantage, both of which are nowhere close to equivalent to playing vs nonshielders.

Basically shields replace a ton of mechanics requiring learning, timing and skill with lulzkills and free hits, which, quite frankly, is a bunch of BS. Sure, if you want this to be the way it goes, then by all means, ruin it the way you feel is right, but since this is a feedback section, mine is:
I am no longer a proponent of Mordhau until shields are something other than free parries, free kills, free bypassing of all core game mechanics and have absolutely no downside while coming with a very low point cost.

I am quite exasperated about this, as I don't understand how one can scroll through a few hundred posts of complaints outlining these issues in detail and then making every valid problem even worse in a patch. A lot of other games have taken some of these incomprehensible paths, too, and they eventually just got peppered with negative reviews. I don't feel like this is a game that should see negative reviews, but why on earth are you doing this kind of thing to begin with?

It is not something I can rationally understand unless it is that you don't want to take away the "ez mode pass" gameplay option for utter newbies, which quite frankly just compromises the several years of bothering to develop a melee fighting depth to begin with. Does not make sense to me at all.

Also apparently so far nothing has been done about horses riding through spawns oneshotting people. How that fits into things is also debateable - I can tell you its a pure net negative for gameplay enjoyment (the spawnkillers are the only ones loving it). Spawn protection is essentially nonexistant.

That's my feedback. This is also something that I will bang on about the next 3 years if need be, because I love this game and I refuse to accept it being reduced to "lulzshields".

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  • 15 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

Hi,

I even noticed a quickspawn = 0 setting in the ini, hoping it would be the 1000+ click saving option that I had assumed would just be normal in the game. Sadly, setting it to 1 did nothing, so here I am asking about it:

Please give me an option that lets me automatically respawn at the closest-to-the-frontline spawn in frontline mode. Given that there are only 5(?) usually, I don't think this will take elaborate coding to do. Apparently something like this halfway exists already if I did not guess that ini setting wrong.

It is insanely infuriating to have every death lead to a pointless "click to respawn / now click WHERE to respawn" x2 click, when I will bet all of my life's savings that the majority of people playing frontline just want to respawn again as quickly as possible once they die.

How this is not a normal, default game behavior is utterly baffling to me. So, please, enable / re-enable automatic spawning.

Thank you.

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  • 14 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

@Deadmode said:
To anyone not sure about it; go into a server with a buddy and get them to stand still whilst blocking and not turning. You can stab around that shield. To prove it, I did it myself: https://streamable.com/pupwu
Please watch this video and then prove to me that a shield user cannot be attacked with his shield up.

As pred has already said - wanted to add the framecaps to it:
Looks like the shield is magically self-adjusting (because the opponent in the video was hit "whilst blocking and not turning") to what 100% looks like a clear hit.

See the three sequential frames below.
I like to call them "Clear hit", "Yepp still clear hit" and high pitched voice "ITS MAAAAGIC!"

Literally looks like something autoblocks for the guy several miles outside of the shield.

Also as has been said, its utter rubbish to post an immobile enemy when people are describing a dilemma of shield + most mobile foe being an issue. And I get that you already pointed out that the shields were magic dude..thats literally the problem.
Glad you're now on the side of "oh maybe we do need to do something" then.
totally hitting past shield 01.pngtotally hitting past shield 02.pngtotally hitting past shield 03 oh crap i didnt.png

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  • 12 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

@Christian2222 said:
If you are getting killed by horse riders all the time, it's you.

I don't know how much you play, but most of the cavalry action I've seen is basically people circling the spawn area so that they come up behind spawn waves and then just seconds later take out people.
Whatever spawn "protection" there is supposed to be doesn't affect this; the cavalry gets their oneshot kills.

In the end, I can deal with this, its shield users that ruin the game completely, far worse than archers or horses ever could.

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  • 12 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

What is real and fun in reality does not necessarily equate to the same for game design. </thread>
Don't think there needs to be a fight over this at all quite honestly.

The game, like all games, needs to be adjusted as per ingame balancing and fun, not reality.
This is something that has been clear to game developers since preeeetty much the dawn of time.

95 81
  • 9 May '19
 HalldeiMaul

@Crumly said:
I am unsure exactly how many times it's happened, but 50-100 at least (i have fourty hours of game time roughly), higher maybe even, where I have used Overhead/right side attack with my axe and smashed them in the back with my axe, then just a plain left side slash while sprinting to the left and ahead, fucking dirt nap time.

Maybe the axes are exceptionally better than this, but it is my daily experience for many, many, many encounters that you basically are guaranteed to hear that shield thwock if the guy is pressing block while any amount of people are attacking them.

Look, its not like I enjoy having to post near daily defense of this being an issue, I would much rather already be playing something where it doesn't take near voodoo magic to hit past a shield. Or where the window between kicking a shield while its up and even a rapier stab is so tiny, that if you blink, you miss your free hit. Or where the time between raising and lowering the shield and being able to attack again is essentially identical with a shield as it is with a normal weapon.

Quite frankly, I don't care which angle is taken. My personal preference actually isn't stamina, but simply a MUCH larger window of not being able to attack and vulnerability between raising and lowering the shield would fix pretty much 30-40% of all frontline teams consisting of shield + short spear/rapier/morningstar.
I mean - if the window in which I can hit a mis-parry of someone with a slow-as-molasses 2h is as wide as a barn door, I don't understand why shields are so much more..shielded.

I'd actually prefer to be able to hit shield users on merit of timing (and not stamina or area nerf), whether its after landing a kick or timing into their lowering of the shield. Because that fits, imo, with the core theme of Mordhau - timing and tactical exchanges.
But right now they basically recover from either of these situations way too close to instantly.