Mordhau
 Digganob
  • Likes received 59
  • Date joined 8 Apr '19
  • Last seen 14 Jan

Private Message

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  • 1
  • 25 Nov '19
 Digganob

I find it extremely telling that the reason for increasing the vertical hitbox is because certain attacks are avoiding the hitbox, specifically, toe stabs and overhead drags. Why are these attacks even a problem? A very easy and simple counter to these is simply jumping. Someone keeps on making unavoidable leg attacks? Just fucking jump. You not only completely avoid damage, but also get a free hit on your opponent. I find no reason this change needs to happen.

Now, the reason I find this change telling, is that it's another example of the gameplay being more about timing your attacks than anything. Defense is simply right clicking at the right time, making it extremely boring. And attacking strategies boil down to making it harder for your opponent to right click at the right time, also very uninteresting. This change is yet another step towards bland gameplay.

An alternative to this is making parries much harder to aim. If this was the case, gameplay wouldn't just be timing, you'd have to aim your attacks, trick your opponent into defending the wrong way rather than the wrong time. This would make gameplay less about waiting till your opponent runs out of stamina, or spamming feints until you finally get a hit. Because that's what the current state of the game is. Either you use an insanely fast and tricky weapon like the rapier or bastard sword, and hope they time their parry wrong, or you just wait until their weapon flies out of their hand. This makes the game really damn boring when in a more controlled environment like in competitive dueling.

This game could continue the way it's going, and it would probably be fine. And honestly, it is really good, and it's fun, when compared to other similar games. But it would be fantastic, if the devs didn't balance the game around clicking at the right time, and actually about offensive and defensive strategies, risky maneuvers, dodging attacks, and trying for otherwise useless attacks, like swings at the legs. But right now, all you do is flail around wildly hoping you can catch your opponent off guard because they thought an attack was coming sooner than it did.

Also, it's a bad sign that instead of a fixing a bug by targeting the root, they instead opt to change an entirely separate mechanic that affects normal gameplay. Think about that. They're treating the symptoms, not the disease. They're sacrificing interesting gameplay to fix a bug.

What the hell.

Please, argue with me about this, I honestly hope I can get you all to agree with me, and maybe improve the game. If you want more details into how a version of Mordhau balanced around smaller parries would be balanced, ask me. I have a list of changes that would need to be done in order to make this balanced, changing everything from stamina economy to weapon turncaps.

Here's a google doc that shows the changes I want to make, and why. Leave comments if you have questions, but check out the "scenarios changed by these changes" section first: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NCiHuQ2iD6RAyeKNVWL3tVmJOkvss9Il1uwhkXFJmi4/edit?usp=sharing

P.S.
This issue has troubled me for a while, and I was hoping to eventually make my own mod to fix these issues I have with the game. So if anyone knows of any tutorials or modding resources that could allow me to change weapon values like parry hitboxes, I would greatly appreciate it if you'd link them. I find it unlikely I can convince the majority of the playerbase or the devs through words alone, so my own modded server would be both my best chance, and the only way I and others who agree with me could play this ideal of Mordhau.

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  • 27 Nov '19
 Digganob

@yourenemiesfriend said:

@Stouty said:
Nothing says intelligent gameplay than hitting through each other's parries, go play call of duty if you want to kill people in 2 seconds with minimal effort

Nothing says intelligent human like having over 1000 hours at the time yet still thinking the game was literally finished in March.

Screenshot (82).png\

Embarrasssing.

Hey now, don’t start insulting people. We’re trying to reach an agreement here, not proving who has the biggest metaphorical dick. He misunderstood me, and the argument he thought I was making was that the bug was good, which would be pretty dumb. Though I think he could tone his attitude down a little.

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  • 27 Nov '19
 Digganob

You know there’s sort of something I’ve noticed. Most of the time for most games, the developers are too scared to try anything really different. If they do it’s because nearly every player wants it. Otherwise, small changes to balance, and that’s about it.

Then there are games like DOTA2, where the guy that makes the patches is batshit insane, and constantly makes drastic balance changes, and adds new mechanics every few months, with the meta changing every couple of them.

Compare that to League of Legends, where every hero is a variant of the same few archetypes. Balance changes are few and small. The gameplay never changes meaningfully.

I’d compare Mordhau to League.

Weapons are barely different, with the only reason to choose one over another is to make something a bit easier or harder to do. “Skill” in Mordhau is limited to partying at the right time, with offense being random variants on the same thing: making your opponent think an attack is coming when it isn’t. That’s it. There are no differing play styles. There’s no point in doing anything but swinging at your opponents midsection. The best possible strategy is just riposting every attack your opponent makes until they run out of stamina.

At the same time, in League, there’s no reason to do anything but the standard meta team build. Each character is just a different flavor of the same few actual play styles. It’s pointless.

There is still skill involved in both games of course, but the same is true for beanbag toss. It just isn’t interesting.

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  • 26 Apr '19
 Digganob

FLAILJUTSU(1).jpg
I've made a topic on it before, but someone directed me to this page. Peasant flails! Maybe could be usable without the peasant perk, maybe not, perhaps you could find it on the battlefield. Anyways, thought it would be a neat addition if you guys don't decide to add a typical fantasy flail in because of realism reasons or something. But yeah man, a peasant flail!

It would probably be a bit less expensive than the eveningstar, but more so than whatever the cost of the big stick will be once you guys implement it. It could maybe have longer reach than the eveningstar, but with a reduction to damage and speed. Also maybe a close-to-head alt grip like the eveningstar. Other than that I don't have any ideas on what it would be like.

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  • 26 Apr '19
 Digganob

If not a typical unrealistic fantasy flail, this is what we need:
5ce679fca07c743377ef8382e8e38316.jpg
threshing-with-flail-ancient-cropped.jpg
forrealflail.jpg
If I don't see this within the first seek of playing, instant uninstall (/s please don't hurt me):
FLAILJUTSU(1).jpg

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  • 9 Apr '19
 Digganob

I really like the idea of progression, because sure, I COULD just instantly make my ultimate bad ass knight guy with numerous details and cool shit, but the impact of such a creation would be significantly downgraded, and I wouldn’t feel like I achieved much, I would never be able to slowly add to my ever growing collection of pieces and accessories, forging someone who looks like a true veteran. Oh yeah, and the fact that I look like a bad ass will reflect my ability, and the time I have spent in the game, making my character look like a grizzled mercenary who slowly added to his getup till he was what he is today. I can’t speak for the actual leveling system, and how leveling itself feels, since I don’t own the game, but that’s what I’d imagine it feeling like. And if you’re an Uber aesthetic character creator nerd, I should think this would be even more satisfying for you, slowly adding to your collection, like an artists palette. I personally don’t think I or many others would find it very satisfying to just have everything at their disposal, but I guess I can’t judge. But I think this would be a net plus for most people. Maybe make all the weapons available, and a piece from each tier like someone else said though, that’s a good idea.

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  • 16 Aug '19
 Digganob

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
I would love to see defense be less about timing and more about direction/chambering. Blocking where an attack is coming is far more intuitive than blocking when an attack is coming... especially when attacks can be dragged and feinted/morphed but parries cannot be extended/held or are otherwise dynamic in any way. Parry as an arcadey and static forward invincibility aura is an outdated mechanic and should have been left behind in Chivalry.

I would also like to see swing manipulation eased up on so long as the timing is also eased up on. More control.

In chivalry the mouse was your weapon. In Mordhau your feet and hips are your weapon as wasd is what primarily controls dragging/acceling. No feeling of control like what Chivalry had. No need for slow mo drags or reverses but cmon, Mord falls so short when it comes to swing manipulation.

Leg hits, shoulder drags, various waterfall types and directional morphs are what I would love to see combat based on, rather than feint button and delay drags or accels.

Shields are so annoying because they are immune to timing based offense... when that is literally 90% of the game's offense. Shields had to have location removed as a major factor because no one even knows how to use directional play when the rest of the game is timing based. Shields wouldn't be a problem at all if shields specifically were weaker to directional play and the game in general had more directinal options available and displayed directional concepts inthe tutorial.

I refuse to believe team play would greatly suffer from tightening up parry. Chivalry's parries were easier to get past via direction even when looking up blocked almost every direction of attack. And just like double parry currently gives the player a stamina free parry, double parry could be augmented so a double parry is very lax to direction; making it useful for blocking multiple attacks from multiple attackers where he meta is directional based.

Absolutely yes! You just explained every problem I have with offense in this game! Timing is everything right now and that leads to pretty basic offense, complex offense is boiled down to attacks that are simply hard to read because of how they look, not because of how they act. Manipulating your attacks just comes down to when they hit, never where, and making the parry closer to chambering would definitely make the game much more complex and interesting. Honestly, chambers are really close to useless most of the time, and are mostly an occasional thing you throw in there as a surprise attack, not as a different tool in your arsenal, because parries are just that much better. If you made parries essentially chambers but with different options after the attack is blocked, that would lead to some really interesting combat. Chambers would actually have a use, because they would no longer be a eh why not this guy sucks but rather an alternative to the parry but with different uses. I really hope that once a sort of competitive, high level scene gets up and running, the top players will bring this up, because right now, Mordhau is just looking like a better Chivalry, not a different game.

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  • 5 Aug '19
 Digganob

So I got an idea for if the flail is gonna be added, that shouldn’t be too convoluted or nothing. The rundown is:

• It costs way more stamina to miss, considering the fact that the head keeps moving, requiring effort to not hit yourself.
• Swings for a flail keep moving, unlike other blunt weapons, allowing you to combo on hit, however, it only hits the first player in its path. It’s arguable whether or not to allow combos after the flail is parried, considering a direct counter to that would be riposte-ing.
•Finally, the trademark use for a flail: the only thing that can make contact with a parry is the head, the chain, of course, going straight through them. This would directly counter holding up a shield, as it would be too slow to bring to where the head is coming from.

Hope y’all like this idea, and maybe it’ll soothe the shield haters’ aching bum holes. Hope to see flails added one day!

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  • 7 Dec '19
 Digganob

Man I've never even seen these animations before. Can someone tell me what they look like? All I know is that made the parry boxes smaller so that they could make them less of a problem (resulting in more braindead gameplay by making it impossible to get around parries), instead of just fixing the damn bugs.

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  • 27 Nov '19
 Digganob

Sorry for the long post, TLDR: The game is not nuanced.

I think this game was really fun for a while. It is definitely better than Chivalry.

But I think there’s a huge problem with it, and I’d like to know why you all have made some of the decisions you all did.

I’ve made a thread in the general discussions category, so if you’re a fellow player, please go here: https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/20383/the-parry-hitbox-change-in-patch-14-is-a-bad-idea/?page=1

Now then, on to the topic.

A big problem I’ve realized as I’ve played the many hours I have, and as I’ve discussed it with my friends, is that the game is not very nuanced. There is really only a single aspect of combat that matters; timing.

Now this aspect isn’t very bad I don’t think. It’s good, there are various counters and such. But the problem isn’t the presence of timing as a core gaming concept, it’s the absence of another concept, aiming your attacks.

There are very few situations where it is at all useful to target anything but the midsection. If you aim anywhere else, there is a significant chance they’ll be able to hard counter it. If you aim for the legs, with the newest patch, they can not only jump the attack and hit you, they can effortlessly parry it. Not to mention that it does less damage if you do hit.

The head is not too much better. Currently, it is nearly impossible to hit your opponents head. They can crouch to avoid horizontal attacks, and they can sprint to the side to only be hit in the torso. And I’d say this is the most interesting part of the game.

But if your facing off in a competitive game against any player worth their salt, what’s the point in doing anything but attacks towards the midsection?

Now, to the question, why are parryboxes so large?

The answer isn’t the fact that people are manipulating bugs, as one reason was cited in the newest patch. You can fix the bug without having very large parryboxes.

And the other reason was that attacks such as toe stabs and overhead to leg drags were broken, which, as I’ve said above, they aren’t. They’re easily avoided, even if you can’t jump over them reliably, you can easily crouch and then parry.

I simply see no reason that parryboxes should be so large.

If they were smaller, they would make the game exponentially more nuanced.

If the problem things are too random, then you can, for instance, reduce the turncap of attacks.

If the problem is that it would make the game unbalanced; it wouldn’t. Everyone would be able to perform fancy drags and strategies, but it would be hard. It would mean there is an actual difference in the gameplay between an average player and a pro. But, it would also give the average players a chance against the veterans.

I see no reason why you would choose the path of simplistic gameplay. Sure, it would be hard. But that’s why you took so much time to make the game, wasn’t it? Please, tell me the reason you chose to make the game about timing right clicks, rather than about nuanced melee combat.

I mean no disrespect, I just want answers. I want to see the game become better.

P.S. If you can, could you tell me if modding tools that would allow changes to actual gameplay are going to be added to Mordhau eventually? If your team cannnot or will not make the changes I think they need to, maybe I can myself.

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  • 26 Nov '19
 Digganob

@Duckalot said:

@Digganob said:

@Stouty said:
Would love for some of these theorycrafting joes to go 5 minutes in a duelyard with Frank insidering them, might change their tune about the parry being too big

Also what in tarnation is "insidering".

When the parry box is too small, people can manage to start their attacks behind it, visibly already inside the opponent. The result is an unparryable attack and plenty of "ground sniffing".

Thanks for the explanation. Well, that settles it, it ain't a problem with parry boxes being too small, it's a bug. A separate issue. Parry boxes could be made small, and this issue could be fixed separately.

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  • 30 Oct '19
 Digganob

@LetsFightíngLöve said:

@Digganob said:
I bet you think you look foolish now kiddo. (https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/20215/patch-13-released-feitoria/)

The complaint was directed towards the general lack of substantial content updates for 5 months, considering the funds which the developers received - hiring new map creators was not out of question for them.

There have been many maps created by the community made singlehandedly by individual developers in that time, but Triternion really did pull it off. I did say in my second post that this had better be the best medieval map ever created considering the underlying mechanics of invasion mode had been released, the 5 month wait and the fact they were planned for release one at a time.

And it damn well should be, it pretty much is - there could be a few more new sounds and there should be a last objective on mountain peak, Grad and Feitoria where the defebding players defend a player king or commander in a throne room - but besides those two small criticisms which can be added or fixed later Triternion really achieved something commendable and massive.

It's not even about entitlement towards content, the concern is about the perceived lack of interest from the devs in releasing content. Balancing does not count as content and the lack of content drives players away from the game. There was 1/20th (3k concurrent vs 60k) the players playing before the update compared to at release. As much as I hope that this content release brings back players, I don't want to see the game die and I hope the devs realise the need for monthly or bimonthly content updates, map extensions or cosmetics instead of nothing and no news. Its unhealthy for the longevity of the community.

I think I see your points, and the devs could be more open as to why they can't or won't pump out content faster. However, I don't think it's reasonable to complain when so much is being done. Remember they're focusing on both gameplay and content, that divides their focus significantly. Personally, I'd be fine with occasional content updates, but constant balance updates, because that makes the game more fun, as opposed to just refreshing interest a bit more often.

Remember that they could have just released this as it was. They had already made it through tons of testing and decided on what they wanted the gameplay to feel like. But they didn't, and they keep on providing both better gameplay and more content, whereas they could have just abandoned it after they got their money, but they're still working on it.

I think the only thing that is way past overdue is tools for modding and such, so that they can crowdsource content, while mostly focusing on gameplay. I think that's their one mistake, and I hope they will release tools soon, because I and many others would use them.

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  • 29 Nov '19
 Digganob

@Quenquentthebabysitter said:
I've already told @Digganob how I don't believe "simply jumping" was the go-to easy counter for toedrags, due to stamina consumption and how it does not guarantee a free hit.

I know that it isn't a guaranteed way to counter that. However, as I said, you can also crouch and parry. I'm just saying that if your opponent knows you're going for something like a toe drag, then jumping can be an easy way to put that tactic down if you become predictable.

But now that you shown all of your arguments, I have to agree with you on how this is fixing the symptoms and not the problem. The issue with toedrag is how the attack is pretty much "overhead-look away from opponent to hit their toe with the very-end of my attack". In-short : a counter-intuitive move like wessex.

As someone that wants to see balance going closer to more diverse block radius (because parrying a stab on your foot from a Zweilander using a Dagger while standing up is absolutely ridiculous), it really scares me that this might be a band-aid fix that will never be resolved.

Thanks for agreeing with me on that. I don't think that things like toe drags should be something you have to train for hours with just to make it work. It should be something that anyone can do, but since the parry box is so large, this reduces it's use to tryhards that everyone hates because they can't do it. It shouldn't be some weird trick, it should be an actual tactic used by normal players.

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  • 27 Nov '19
 Digganob

@Stouty said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
The all powerful @Stouty has spoken.

Oh sorry that one guy in your private duelyard can perform crazy insiders at 13 ping. I guess side stabbing should be totally obsolete in a duel setting.

If players significantly better than you find that the parry is unresponsive then you should probably listen to them

You’re right for the wrong reason. The parties were unresponsive, but that is a separate issue. Making parry boxes larger fixes the issue as a side effect. We’re not arguing the bug was good, we’re saying the game mechanic was a good.

@Digganob said:

Thanks for the explanation. Well, that settles it, it ain't a problem with parry boxes being too small, it's a bug. A separate issue. Parry boxes could be made small, and this issue could be fixed separately.

Go ahead and try fixing it, modding the combat is an option

I do want to mod actually, but I have yet to find any good resources or tutorials to change anything involving actual combat. If I could I would. Also, a bug inherent to parrying is likely to be beyond my ability to mod.

If they can do a fancy trick to get around the parry box, so can I dude. That's my point, they're dumbing down gameplay.

Nothing says intelligent gameplay than hitting through each other's parries, go play call of duty if you want to kill people in 2 seconds with minimal effort

You might be misunderstanding me. If you did, sorry. I was meaning that if I could, for instance, trick you into partying too high, and hit you in the legs, that requires skill, and not only can you counter it, you can do it too. I wasn’t saying the bug was a “fancy trick”.

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  • 25 Nov '19
 Digganob

@Soulcatcher said:
Foot drags were not even an issue bro

Get the odd weird one but just looking down and parrying, or jumping as you mentioned worked fine. And it is a powerful drag.

Can still do it in my 50 odd minutes of earlier gameplay but felt harder and not sure if opponenet was just fucking up their parries.

I literally just can't comprehend why they want to basically nerf drags, make parrys and chambers even easier than they were before and just turn the whole gameplay into a spam feint morph fucking gamble stamina fest

over it

revert this

Exactly my point.

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  • 20 Aug '19
 Digganob

@Odd said:
Imagine the community being so impatient they do everything themselves.

brings a tear to my eye.

Now we just have to wait for unofficial balance mods.

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  • 10 Aug '19
 Digganob

@Antoniokontos said:
could you imagin how un readable a flail will be with drags lol tbh it should be movement based attacks not the typical swing animations but you have to spin and stuff for it to attack

Whaaaat? Wouldn’t that make it way harder to read and not to mention balance? Also, my point with this post is to make the mechanics for a flail as unconvoluted as possible. Also why would drags be hard to read? It should essentially just look like a mace when swung but instead of a shaft it’s a chain.

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  • 30 May '19
 Digganob

@intTobey said:

Parries are hard countered by feints. Feints are countered by chambers. Chambers are countered by morphs. So what counters morphs? I'm not trying to imply a gap in the mechanics, I'm just trying to learn how to play from a logical perspective. I want a 'best' response to someone's morph. Right now I just either try to accel to hit first (gamble) or parry.

Well, following the circular relationship, it follows that morphs are countered by parries. If you predict the morph, they only succeed in losing more stamina than they should have. So eventually they will stop using it, because you keep parrying it, and revert back to other attacks. If they don't they lose the stamina battle. That extra stamina cost makes a difference. You might not be able to do some crazy thing against it, but who cares? It's essentially a delayed attack with a weird animation. And there aren't any "punishes" for normal attacks either. So it follows that there shouldn't be for morphs either. As I said, just treat it as a normal attack yet slow attack with a different animation.

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  • 16 May '19
 Digganob

@ThePickle said:
I'd love to see some Celtic armor and weaponry, would anyone else?

That'd be pretty cool honestly. I think they should add as many armors from the various cultures in Europe as possible, there are some really neat ones!

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  • 6 May '19
 Digganob

@cain said:

@Humble Staff said:
Yea well, devs have been adamant with the no guns side of this fence, and most of the comunity agrees.
You'll have to wait for mod tools to arrive tbh.

I haven't been caught up with the dev stream of Mordhau sadly, have the dev's given a reason for not wanting to include early firearms? They seem pretty staunchly in favour of historical accuracy in pretty much every other respect that doesn't interfere with balance, which is one of the things that drew me to the game so much in the first place. So the lack of matchlocks kinda... Stands out, at least to the history nerd within me.

Might be that they don't something you can't defend yourself against. Even if you're a naked guy with a knife, you can still defend yourself against any attack. If your opponent had a gun, it'd be able to get past any of your defenses. Even if you had a shield, you'd have no time to react, so they could just shoot you in the foot or something. Whereas if they had a bow, you can still parry it. Best you can do with a gun is predict when and where they will shoot.