Mordhau
 vanguard
Conscript
  • Likes received 6302
  • Date joined 27 Oct '15
  • Last seen 24 May

Private Message

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 5 Feb '18
 vanguard

@GIRUGIRU said:
You can just FTP out of a chamber if you fail to read it, not really sure what the issue here is. Try parrying more if you can't chamber well

The issue is apparently with your huge ego and reading capability

I really don't get why is it better to have unreadable animations instead of readable animations but with a more restrict timing to chamber.

I don't know if you're trolling with this statement or you just have absolutely no idea what ur talking about

Great arguments man! I'm trolling and clueless, yeah, and so is everyone on this thread

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/12596/the-readability-of-drags/?page=1

You are probably the only dude who understands shit, how does it feel to be so special?

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 5 Feb '18
 vanguard

Not the point. I know you are not supposed to chamber 100% of the time, and I didn't said you should nor I want that to be the case.

I'm saying that, when you are supposed to chamber, if you try to read it, you won't be able to because the animations doesn't convey what is going on properly, thus making it a gamble or a prediction, which, imho, lowers the skill ceiling of the game and brings absolutely nothing good to the table.

The video only demonstrates how bad it can get, and you can be victim of a drag like that while footworking without any problem. As I said, these drags are easy to perform. Try it yourself, only do really subtle drags, you won't bypass parries, but you will fuck any chamber atempt your opponent tries to do, which will force him to parry or gamble to chamber, and that will make him vulnerable to your feints or eat a hit every time his gamble fails. These subtle drags are OP, and once people start doing it more, high level fights will boil down to stamina and hard-reading feints because chambering is a unecessary risk.

And this on duels, where you can actually pay attention to your opponent's animation. Teamplay should only make this question worse and even more of a unecessary risk to chamber.

I really don't get why is it better to have unreadable animations instead of readable animations but with a more restrict timing to chamber.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 4 Feb '18
 vanguard

@Jax said:
Use footwork hombre

You can negate the majority of stab drags by moving away from their origin, it makes the timing very easy to pick up on

Read my op on the other thread. Stab drags aren't as bad as the others.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 2
  • 4 Feb '18
 vanguard

@GIRUGIRU said:
readings drags + accels is a joke compared to how it was in difficult it was Chiv.

You must be playing with players that drag and telegraph like they are playing chiv then tbh.

Shit was hard to read in chiv, but here it isn't all that better. You can Parry them easily because the parrying time is much more forgiving, so unless you Parry ridiculously early, you are safe against both accels and delays against most weapons.

With chambers, you gotta either hard read it, predict your opponent attack or gamble as the timing is much less forgiving. The only skill based option here is not viable, that would be hard reading it.

i think you need to be devoting more time to the game before you can make statements like "i can't distinguish drag+accel".

Check out the other thread about this same subject, look at the people who liked my original post, or posted themselves there, or liked some other post that agreed with this claim that they are unreadable. There are some pretty good dudes there if that is the problem.

Trying to chamber like the way you are doing in those clips - you're trying to run before u can stand up. Pointless trying to chamber if you cant maintain a consistent defence with parries. It's like going for 1 taps in CSGO and nothing else

The point is that you can't read them when you want to chamber. Can you read them? Seriously?

How the hell is this readable man.

This sort of thing happens in fights all the time, it isn't even hard to do these drags. In fact, it is really easy to perform it.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 4 Feb '18
 vanguard

I want to be able to read both the windup, that is, the direction the attack is coming from (overhead, uppercut etc) and the release, that is, if a attack is a delayed one or a accelerated one imho. This would make defense fair in a way that, with practice, you can actualy read stuff; would make dragging harder, as you would have to do more then just move your mouse a few inches; and would completely eliminate the gamble aspect of chambers. Probably would help in footwork as well, because if you know what you are dealing with, you can react properly to it not only timing wise, but as positioning wise as well.

If things are overal more readable, parrying can be made harder, requiring to look more precisely where the attack is coming from. It also would be no problem if chambers got even harder to perform both timing and angle wise, because you can actually read stuff.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 3 Feb '18
 vanguard

@AFluffyKnight said:
Jesus animations are not as broken as you people are saying. They need work. They aren't perfect and neither is any human.

Well they are objectively unreadable. This game isn't immune to critiques and imho it is better for us to say it now, then wait for it to release and have to deal with a shitstorm of bad steam reviews and videos. This is what a alpha is for isn't it.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 2 Feb '18
 vanguard

@AFluffyKnight said:
I have an issue with some of the recovery animations of certain actions, but making everything perfectly readable is a surefire way to make this game boring as fuck.

Competition kinda thrives on the fact that no one is perfect.

Unreadable animations lower the skill level of the game, as any noob move its mouse a few inches and you can't chamber anything anymore, making so parrying becomes your safest bet, which in turn makes feints cancerous. If animations are readable, then you will have to outplay your opponent, which is where, imho, the true skill and fun on the game is.

I find truly dumb to die to these unreadable shit tbh, it isn't fun, I don't feel skilled at all doing these shit. It is literaly a clutch tbh, when I feel like tryharding I just start doing these subtle drags and I win as long as my opponent tries to chamber anything. Not only that, as it is completely unintuitive for newer players, as they won't even know why they get hit, it is not visible in any way.

It isn't fair, it lowers the skill ceiling, it is confusing, it makes you gamble when you want to chamber etc.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 2 Feb '18
 vanguard

You realise that the comrade is talking about distinguishing between delays and accels, right?

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 1 Feb '18
 vanguard

@Zexis said:
I don't think animations will be a magic fix-all though it should help with reading release transitions.

It's not about making drags easier to defend, it's about making them readable and consistent
How should that be changed, exactly? When we say we want them more readable, that's like telling a web designer you want your site to "pop" more.

It is not even a matter of chambering a lot or not, it is a matter that whenever you try to chamber, you will have to gamble because the minimal mouse movement that your opponent does, you are fucked.

Once a wise man in Wargame reddit quoted a developer saying that the community is great at finding problems, but utterly shitty in suggesting solutions.

But hey, they could make the windup, early release mid release and end release phases of a attack more clear, add some visual or sound effect or make the torso movement follow your mouse movement more tbh, I don't know man I don't animate anything, I'm not a computor man I'm geography communism man, ask me how to kill the bourgeoisie and plan cities instead tbh. But I can tell you that these animations are not readable, you cannot look at them and say "oh that is a accelerated attack that is coming my way" or "fuck a delayed attack, better prepare myself". You just know what hit you after you have been hit, wtf are you even supposed to do tbh.

But hey, if there is no solution animation wise, then make chambering more forgiving timing wise, because then people will have to drag more to bypass a chamber atempt thus making those telegraphed drags. Right now, you can literally just move your mouse a few inches and BAM no chambers for you bitch. I mean, look at the vide I posted, I barely move the mouse man, you don't even see ANY torso movement. You only see me changing the trajectory of the attack in Slomo, and after looking at the video at least a few times lmao.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1 Feb '18
 vanguard

I'd like to hear a devman opinion on this subject tbh. Are we understanding the game badly? Is it supposed to be like this?

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 3
  • 31 Jan '18
 vanguard

@Huggles said:

@vanguard said:

@Huggles said:
Like if you started running to his left while attempting a chamber he would be forced to accel if he wants to hit you so you would chamber him, or he doesn't and he misses and you get a free hit.

If he runned to my left I could either A) let him delay himself into death or B) just make a really small mouse movement to accel and behead his ass. Both cases he would not be able to read and would be a gamble, where the safest bet is to parry instead of chambering.

We did this test because when we are fighting, these unreadable shit happens all the time.

The video is just to show how unreadable it can get, besides, if the video I posted is not valid, then here:

https://clips.twitch.tv/ToughCrypticCougarImGlitch

Tell me you can read this shit lmao. Get ANY video people make on this game and you will see these same unreadable attacks tbh, even the one posted by Marox on the beta thread. If you don't see it, then idk comrade, maybe you should try fight more competent players. Bodkin knows how to do these drags, fight him tbh, see if you can chamber his shit consisntently.

IF drags get easier to read, then defense needs an added component of difficulty. Like aiming at the wep.

Yeah, then footdrags become cancerous as fuck.

Idk why you want the game to become this unreadable mess in the defense part tbh. I don't find the game slow at all, tbh I don't even really understand this argument of yours very well. Fights ends literally in 3 or 4 hits, the longest fights last about 30 secs. I don't get your point imho.

Mordhau, at the moment, is full of unreadable attacks. I really don't know how this can possibly be healthy for the game.

The guy in the clip was walking, not sprinting. Also I said to run to the other side of the attack, not towards it. If he had sprinted tho, he would have forced the chamber. People like june and wizardish do this shit all the time and chamber very consistently. You aren't supposed to be able to read things easily while standing still.

If he was running, it wouldn't change anything, you just have to drag a bit more and that's it. And, what if he sprints away from the attack, thinking it will be a delay, but the dude accel that shit instead? My point is that to fuck a chamber you just need a really subtle mouse movement that is, in practice, unreadable. It is not hard to read, it is unreadable tbh.

I beat bodkin very consistently, so idk your point. Also almost all the people who pay consistently NA are pretty competent players. So this idea that I just need to fight gud people and the game is unreadable gamblefest is pretty bullshit tbh.

Not the point, I'm talking about reading drags in order to chamber, not beat the guy. I never said the game is a unreadable gamblefest lmao, dont strawman me Huggles pls

I don't like the drag heavy gameplay and I don't like how weird windup to release transition is at all. So it's not like I disagree with you. But the game isn't a gamble fest, chambers shouldn't be easy or the main mode of defense, and defense def does not need to be easier.

I'm not saying the game is a gamble fest, I'm saying chambering is. I find parrying fine as it is tbh I can parry everything no problemo, and you are forced to drag a lot to bypass parries, making so your attacks gets more readable. Chambers, on the other hand, you just need to make a really, REALLY small mouse movement to delay or accel it, to the point you can't tell the difference imho, making so chambering becomes a fucko.

@Huggles said:
I am very much for making drags much more readable and telegraphed and require good footwork to pull off but then we need another component to defense.

I agree with this tbh Huggles my friend, I think we need drags to be harder to make, right now it is literally just move a bit your mouse and you do something completely unreadable. It is just too easy to fuck with chamber attempts imho.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 3
  • 31 Jan '18
 vanguard

@Huggles said:
Like if you started running to his left while attempting a chamber he would be forced to accel if he wants to hit you so you would chamber him, or he doesn't and he misses and you get a free hit.

If he runned to my left I could either A) let him delay himself into death or B) just make a really small mouse movement to accel and behead his ass. Both cases he would not be able to read and would be a gamble if he tried to chamber.

@Huggles said:
You should incorporate footwork that forces/baits your opponent to throw attacks that you can predict better.

We did this test because when we are fighting, these unreadable shit happens all the time. Wtf Huggles, do you think we are what, completely noobs who doesn't know mordhau or chiv? We know all this more then enough, we do this all the time, and we eat unreadable attacks all the time anyways lmao.

The video is just to show how unreadable it can get, besides, if the video I posted is not valid, then here:

https://clips.twitch.tv/ToughCrypticCougarImGlitch

Tell me you can read this shit lmao. Get ANY video people make on this game and you will see these same unreadable attacks tbh, even the one posted by Marox on the beta thread. If you don't see it, then idk comrade, maybe you should try fight more competent players. Bodkin knows how to do these drags, fight him tbh, see if you can chamber his shit consisntently.

IF drags get easier to read, then defense needs an added component of difficulty. Like aiming at the wep.

Yeah, then footdrags become cancerous as fuck.

Idk why you want the game to become this unreadable mess in the defense part tbh. I don't find the game slow at all, tbh I don't even really understand this argument of yours very well. Fights ends literally in 3 or 4 hits, the longest fights last about 30 secs. I don't get your point imho.

Mordhau, at the moment, is full of unreadable attacks. I really don't know how this can possibly be healthy for the game.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 29 Jan '18
 vanguard

@Stauxie said:
This might not be the best example but relates to what you're talking about: https://clips.twitch.tv/ToughCrypticCougarImGlitch

Yeah this is exactly the same thing brother, every weapon can do these hard as shit to read drags

I agree that animations blend a bit too well and makes drags especially difficult to read. I have learned to be more patient and it has ended up working out for me so far. It is something that I definitely think should be looked at (which they are) to make the game as good looking as possible.

I try to be patient as well, but when I do I end up eating a accelerated attack out of nowhere lmao. So then I go full gambleroni or just try to chamber as little as possible because chambers preserve muh stamina and I tend to combo feint to parry too much trying to outreach my opponent, so stamina is kill and I'm forced to chamber

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 3
  • 29 Jan '18
 vanguard

This is what I mean with drags readability, they are way too subtle and hard to tell the difference when done properly. Notice how when not in slomo, you literally can't tell the diference between a accelerated or a delayed overhead. The stabs are also hard as shit to read, but I'd say they are a bit less then the overheads, sometimes. This question extends itself to the whole combat system, with every weapon, with every attack angle; these on the video are just the most glaring ones imho.

What do you guys think? Imho, this makes so chambering becomes a gamble, thus if you want to play safe, you won't chamber but try to hard-read feints instead, as it is a safer option to deal with feints then chambering. Seriously, some fights I do like 3, 4 attacks, and if my opponent tries to chamber all of them, he ends up eating these 3 or 4 attacks, same when I try to chamber what they throw at me in a row, and I'm not even talking about the flinch thing, it truly is the lack of readability what is going on as sometimes me or my opponent doesn't even combo, but we eat the hit while trying to chamber it anyways.

Some dude on reddit said that attacks should not be 100% readable otherwise the game becomes stale. Ok, that makes sense, but what is the treshold? For me, this is way too unreadable, it is unreliable to try and chamber attacks tbh.

Does the new animations affect this particular readability thing with drags? Honestly, I have no problem to tell the direction the attack is coming from when I try to chamber. What fucks with my chambers attempts are A) these animations that are really hard to tell the difference and B) goddamn 240 system having it's own will sometimes, lmao.

Thanks to Frise for helping me on this noble quest for science and development, mankind should benefit greatly comrade gud video u did tbh jesus probably loves you, I'm not really sure.


I think it is worth mentioning, the method we used to make the video and reach these conclusions was simple, I asked Frise to chamber everything I throwed at him, so I did normal overheads without manipulating the tracers, accels and delays and with no order and without telling him what I was going to do, so this way I forced him to hard-read my attacks. Same with the stabs.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 26 Jan '18
 vanguard

@das said:
That explains why you hit invisible walls on an empty server until map is changed.

Caveman explanation: Computer think in 1 and 0. Integer. No demical point. Must do tricky thing for decimal points. Number with decimals has float.

Empty server keeps counting timer because no one joins. No one joined in very long time. Computer server keep counting. Count so much, float number is counting weird now. Game no like weird, game going to register hit on wrong time now! Game frame and server tick no longer synchronize same time! Me smash!

Fuck!

One of these days me and Frise got into the br server right, and it probably was a long time since no one joined because South America has basically 4 players. So, we get into the server, and as soon as we windup, the hit already lands and we don't even see the swing going through the screen, it is literally windup-hit the wall immediatly. We both were like HOLYSHIT WTF IS DIS, our ping was normal.

Damn, South America server usually stay one or two days without anyone playing on it, so this must happen there all the fucking time! I only really noticed this day though because honestly, it was fucked up beyond imagination. I think Frise recorded it, idk now.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 24 Jan '18
 vanguard

Hey I like to lick boot shut the fuck up man this is offensive to my foot fetish

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 24 Jan '18
 vanguard

@Jax said:
obligatory duke post, how should we oppress the peasants today, fine gentlemen?

Peasants-Revolt.jpg

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 19 Jan '18
 vanguard

@das said:
Nobody really hard reads both accels and drags. The guys you see chambering the instas, if you drag them with that same attack, they'll FTP in reaction. If they try to read and chamber your drags, your instas will start hitting them cause now they're guessing wrong.

This is by far the thing that mostly breaks the combat at the moment imho. Truly a guess game if you drag properly. Even feints are much more readable then drags here, honestly, I think there is something really off with drags tbh.

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 15 Jan '18
 vanguard

Yes thank u devs, the server is fucking great and I love you all

Vote me for SA server's Chairman tbh

Lets play a bit today Frise u fucko, I'm having a bit of trouble here with a few things but I guess today it will be fine comrade

Conscript 4564 6302
  • 1
  • 11 Jan '18
 vanguard

Yeah I need to play more as well, but as a first impression, the new overhead tracer is great, the new map looks so good it isn't even funny and the bots behave rather funny on it lol.

The footwork changes, I haven't really felt them. Seems like it always was, but might be me needing to put more hours in it to see how goes.

The new customization things all look amazing, really good job guys.