Mordhau
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Thank u Karl, very cool

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  • 18 Jan
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@GIRUGIRU said:
Yeah lunge is too high right now that's one of the causes, it's being looked at. But I agree it's quite easy to force facehug with weapons like BS

Yeah I cant wait to see this fixed so I can use heavy weapons without wanting to kill myself after it.

As for animation unreadability, I dont find them unreadable as well as many other people that don't post on these forums. Although if I was to bring them to this thread I would get accussed of brigading

Lol Giru, you were accused of brigading because said people got into X thread and shat all over it like a bunch of fucking cavemans instead of saying usefull stuff. Absolutely no one would care if your friends came here and talked or explained stuff, maybe they can answer what clues should I look for to read delayed attacks? That would be welcome tbh. As I said, I can read when people do drags like looking to the sides/up first than attacking, but when they are done mid release its a real fuck I cant see anything lmao

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  • 17 Jan
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@GIRUGIRU said:
i usually vouch for chamber FTPs when im against a good player and on that turn of initiative he's right in my face. As similair with chiv, keep distancing when it's your turn to parry and move in different patterns to make yourself difficult to be manipulated against

Yeah that I know and its something in my muscle memory, I'm constantly moving and shit. But, it doesn't seems to me that this more conventional footwork is really effective in making you avoid being facehugged, and I only duel with big weapons like halberd or zwei, with either medium or light armor. In chiv seems like backpedalling was faster? Idk whats the deal man but fucking full armored bastard sword dude keeps facehugging me all the time, and unless I turn my back to my opponent and run, I can't create distance effectively especially considering the lunge + morphs.

i mean, I can avoid being dragged in most of the situations I think, but thats different from reading. Like, my opponent windups a left-to-right slash, I'll footwork to the right in order to create distance and make things easier to read. This does make so I can avoid getting hit and what not, but its not always that you can do this. Sometimes you have to read shit, and here lies the problem imo.

Just for the record, when I backpedal I don't just press S, its usually A or D and S + mouse movement, as that creates more distance faster.

Will need to press Q if they morph though because if you just chamber ftp a morph you might get morph feinted

True that.

Either way, you only need to parry 100 or so MS later than the accels beginning to parry most drags in this game, if you're at a distance and under pressure where you're gonna struggle to read you can just use chambers to bolster your defence. It's alot easier to stay alive in Mordhau compared to chiv - in 1vX situations you can literlaly just spam riposte and tank 9000 hits as well

I mean, this will depend on your setup, I can't just try to chamber all the time at facehug reach with a halberd. Maybe what you say is true for medium weapons, which is what basically everyone uses. I'm completely disconsidering 1vX here for the reasons I already stated, these readability things are less of a problem in team fights as there you have less space for doing elaborated drags and shit.

Otherwise, you just need to get used to maintaining distance and hard-reading when you're not in facehug. Facehug yeah, shit's gonna get hard to read, but if you could read everything in this game you would just be playing mount and blade with stamina

Right, but one thing is not being able to read because I need to l2p, other thing is not being able to read because the animations are not readable. One of these things are healthy for the game, the other is absolute cancerous. I still can't tell the difference between a delay and a accel, so I ask once again, what clues do you look for to identify them? On the animation itself I mean.

Wizardish has a good "speech" on this, he talks about "avoidance" as an important part of your defensive toolkit

Managing when you're facehug and when you're not is a big way to make your attacks difficult to read yet you can read theirs no problem

Yeah indeed the reach thing is directly related to readability of drags. Don't you think its too easy to facehug in this game? Its a goddamn pain in the ass to use big and slow weapons because of this tbh. Also, if there is knockback, it is barely noticeable and might be one of the things that contribute to all this imo. Big slow weapons needs knockback.

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  • 17 Jan
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Deceptive animations are a different story.

Yeah, thats the problem. How do you tell a delay from a accel when its done mid release? You say drags are hard countered by chamber FTP, so does this means that I should be winding up a attack every time my opponent attacks me? Or do you know when its a delay is going to happen? Because what I'm saying is that I don't know how to see if my opponent is delaying his attack or not. It doesn't matter if there exists a hard counter to this, if I can't identify it. Countering isn't the problem, identifying is. I know a great counter to delayed drags too, you just identify them and don't parry early.

You won't notice that in 2v1 or team fights as usually these drags are not common for a variety of reasons. Keep dueling and you will see them more often.

Its the same deal with the 240 system, its not impossible to be good with it, but its fucking difficult beyond imagination and goddamn annoying. Drags are more or less on this same area imo, I can't react to them, there is no visual or audio clue so I ask you again Giru, what should I look for? Do you read these mid-release drags?

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  • 17 Jan
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Yeah the unreadable animation thing might be a l2p issue, I don't really know. What clues does the game gives you that its a delay or a accelerated attack? What do you look for? All I can do is try to predict what the fuck Frise or anyone else will do. I can only read his delays when he does it in a real dumb way, like starting a attack while looking to the sides or something, which doesn't happen really often. When you drag mid release there is no clue at all tbh.

The morph having no sound whatsoever to distinguish it from other stuff isn't really a l2p thing though, I think its actually pretty basic stuff to have tbh. Same way in chiv ripostes had no grunt while normal attacks did, and this was fundamental to read feints after being parried. Here you can hold a stab inside your opponent, than morph it last second into a delated overhead and there is no visual/sound clue that A) a morph is happening and B) you are getting delayed. It boils down to predicting my opponent's fighting style, which I find annoying idk.

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  • 17 Jan
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After playing this patch a bit more, animations are still unreadable, its horrible to see the difference between a delay or a accel from any weapon really. Morphs are still unreadable, there should be at least some sort of grunt or any other sound when you do them imho, right now its borderline retarded tbh, fights feel cheesy as hell. Chamber morphs are bad, real bad to deal with. Add chamber morph feints to the mix and you are in for a gamble festival where no one reads fuckall and whoever can keep the initiative wins, simply because this allows you to throw more unreadable stuff at your opponent, which is why big slow weapons are shitty for duels as being slower while having no noticeable reach advantage fucks your initiative big time. This leads us to the part where you don't really have much freedom in fights, you better get a medium tier weapon (LS, BS, Battle Axe etc) and mix up unreadable stuff while doing everything you can to not lose initiative.

Frise said something that I agree, we fight more against the animations than our opponent itself.

Honestly? Fights have been more annoying than fun, and I'm not even burned out on the game as I did give it quite some time already. When I lose or win it feels cheesy, unless me or my opponent pull of some cool footwork manuever, all the rest is basically unreadable animations that doesn't give you any clue on what the hell is going on.

There are no range plays in duels, a halberd and a bastard sword feels exactly the same range wise, morphs + lunge makes so anything can reach anything at any given moment, it makes so footwork is more about flashy stuff like using torso movement to duck under a waterfall atempt for example, than positioning and keeping your opponent at the edge of your weapon. The thing is, flashy stuff is situational and gambly as fuck, while positioning could be used constantly and consistently. I think backpedall speed is too low, playing with halberd and 2-2-0 armor I cannot create/maintain distance between me and my opponent that is using a LS/BS.

I can understand if the game launches with the combat on this state due to time constrains and such, but it will have to be tweaked after release, like big priority stuff imho. Probably on the Frontline mode these things won't be really noticeable, especially for new players going against other new players, but its just a matter of time until people find out the real cheesy tactics and abuse the fuck out of them, making the combat annoying.

About the animations, the advantage of Chivalry's freezing weapon in mid air is that you could actually read this happening and react accourdingly. Here its so fluid, you can't really see the delay untill its already too late. There is 0 indications that a delay is being used if your opponent actually knows what he is doing, same for accels.

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  • 14 Jan
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Leave it for pubs, especially the frontline mode. It isn't toxic at all and its fun as fuck in Rising Storm 2. Just give a option to "mute all" and its 10/10 for those who don't want it.

There is 0 solid reason to not add it tbh. Its easier to be a toxic cunt with the building, firepot and team damage than it is to use proximity voice.

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  • 14 Jan
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@afiNity said:
Everyone, try the m.AngleAttacksWithMovement command. For me and some others it's by far the best solution for directional swings. I'm biased because I played Jedi Knight for so long which uses the same scheme but it's really an elegant mechanic.

Oh man I don't know when it happened, but it seems to be turned on by default, at least for ripostes. It is legit weird as fuck, I had to download the game again because windows fucked me up, than when playing with Frise, while using binds, I notice that my ripostes sometimes goes on a absolutely wrong direction. Testing with him, I found out that if I hold A+W/S or D+W/S and riposte, the attack will come from a rather funny angle that doesn't correspond to the bind I pressed.

I thought I was going crazy, like how the fuck does pressing LMB is sometimes giving me a overhead???? Spooky shit tbh. Actually, is this a bug? Should I report this on the apropriate thread? Because it was only for ripostes, I could not reproduce it just normaly attacking and using WASD.

I can't even imagine how you play like this lol, it is so weird man 2 complex for me.

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  • 13 Jan
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@Pred said:

@vanguard said:

@Pred said:

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Well, its a cool feature if you are not a competitive player imho. It is also good marketing oportunity, as it is a intereting imput mode that is like Mount and Blade fighting system 2.0 mixed with chivalry, which technically is melee paradise if you think about it.

I think its pretty cool to leave it for casuals, but it must be made clear that if you want to go competitive, which I believe is what a big part of mordhau buyers will want to, binds are a more fitting solution, although you can be competitive with the 240 if you practice untill your dick fall off.

Dunno, I mostly see frustration potential in it, "240 degrees of attack" sounds much better than it really is. Especially when they will google "how to be better in Mordhau" and the first advice they'll get will be "use the better control set".

Yeah thats the real issue, might be interesting for the casual person, but if said person suddenly wants to go competitive, it will be very fucky indeed

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  • 13 Jan
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Wtf is this dude

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  • 13 Jan
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Holy shit this should be the trailer for the game lmao

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  • 13 Jan
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@Pred said:

@yourcrippledson said:
I thought this game was being developed by competitive Chiv players? Making the game they wanted to play. I feel like what I am seeing is pandering to the masses

Imaginary masses I would say, since vast majority of the current playerbase doesn't like 240. Hanging onto 240 as some kind of cool feature that's going to hook thousands of casuals into the game seems baseless.

Well, its a cool feature if you are not a competitive player imho. It is also good marketing oportunity, as it is a intereting imput mode that is like Mount and Blade fighting system 2.0 mixed with chivalry, which technically is melee paradise if you think about it.

I think its pretty cool to leave it for casuals, but it must be made clear that if you want to go competitive, which I believe is what a big part of mordhau buyers will want to, binds are a more fitting solution, although you can be competitive with the 240 if you practice untill your dick fall off.

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  • 10 Jan
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This is epic drums wtf

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Door reinforcement is cool too, could be a way to solidify the presence of a team in a given place. Might be interesting to, say, rush place X and block/trap the fuck out of it and go full vietcong on this shit.

In Rising Storm 2, this particular thing, rushing to put traps in objectives close to the enemy spawn in the Supremacy game mode is real fun imho. In this game mode, teams don't have a fixed sequence of objectives to take, but to gather victory points you must have the captured territory connected with each other, to simulate sort of a supply line thingy.

Like, you can attack the middle of the supply line of the opposing team, trap the fuck out of it and watch the world burn as they tries to recapture it, or you can rush towards the beggining of said supply line and completely cut off the other team from getting any victory points. Its pretty cool tbh, especially since USA has transport helos that allows for bik rushes, while the vietcong can build tunnels that serve as respawn points for your squad, which can be the ultimate harass tool if used properly.

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It could work, might be a bit weird to get used to it but I think it could work. The thought process involved in it is completely different from both binds and what we have in the 240 system right now. Chambers could be weird to do with this system, at least in the beggining.

Idk tbh I'd test the fuck out of it

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  • 9 Jan
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@Mittsies said:

@yourcrippledson said:

@Mittsies said:
I wonder how many people actually use 100% binds, like without any kind of "flip attack side" nonsense.

I still use alt for 2 attacks.
Scroll up - UH
Scroll Down - OH
MMB - Alt atk

plus I still use the 240 stab for some reason

It was definitely slower at first to click and scroll rather than just scrolling, but It seems the same now. Depending on your scroll wheel and the settings it has this might not be great for some mice? Anyway it's really nice how it puts all 4 of those attacks on one finger flick... Just you have to bind the rest because alt is basically dedicated to UH and OH this way.

But have you tried playing 100% binds for a bit yet?

:^)

Yeah, binds are a great solution in chivalry where we had 3 attack types. In theory, the 240 system is without a shadow of a doubt the system more suited to deal with fuckloads of angles, since it is literally 2 buttons that can make X different things. The 240 system is, in theory, a really elegant solution to having 12743189745 binds or having to hold ALT to do X angle. It solves this problem, but create new ones. Such is life tbh

Its tough, but I personaly preffer consistency over elegance. As I said time and time again, I wanna love the 240 system, have babies with it... This is so sad i'm gonna hear some despacito, see u around friend

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  • 9 Jan
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Gamers!1!!

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  • 9 Jan
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Very nice comrades! Can't wait to see how things will be in, say, 5 years from now. To get on that site and see mordhau done, and maybe another project on the way!

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@Mittsies said:

so I just don't believe that 240 will be the one thing that undoubtedly holds a player back from reaching the highest level.

Thing is, you will have to waste HUGE amounts of time just to be somewhat consistent with it, while binds you get used to them in a weak max. So its what I said in other thread, nooby will get the game, play for 300h and still not be 100% consistent with it because it is simply impossible, there will be a mistake eventualy due to the nature of footwork and how the 240 works. Only to learn some time latter from his friend that binds are superior and he should be using that all along if he didn't want to deal with ocasionaly inconsistent imput mode. Now he has to lose the muscle memory he developed and create a new one.

It does hold you back, a lot. You have to first struggle with the control scheme, than the fights. And once you are used to the system, you will still miss attacks if you footwork properly or simply moved your hand in a funny way that you didn't even notice.

Point being, 240 is essentialy worse than binds. There is no changing that, you can argue that one can be a melee god with it but it simply doesn't matter, its inferior, harder to learn and inconsistent while bringing nothing of actual substance to the gameplay other than being a fun (that is, if you don't mind ocasional inconsistency) imput mode.

It is good for the casual player who will play like 20h and wont touch the game again imho, in the end is a really cool and interesting gimick, but its also that, a gimick.

I think the best aproach is to be honest about it to new players. It is inconsistent, it can be really fun for casuals and you can get good with it, if you invest lots of time and has patience, and even so, due the nature of foowork + how the 240 works, you will be under constant threat of making the wrong imput; while binds are easier, consistent and arguably what makes the game really fun are the fights themselves, not a imput mode, and binds allow you to fight your opponent instead of the imput system, and focuss more on skilfull stuff the game offers like drags, feints, footwork, mindgames etc. Not that you can't with the 240, its just that it sometimes will get in the way and can potentialy ruin what would otherwise be a bik play.

Honestly, how many times in chiv you had to actively think about your next attack imput? In the first few days maybe then it becomes second nature, you don't even think about what you are doing. You can think instead on more important and fun stuff like drags, feints, footwork, mindgames etc, things that are worth to put some thought and deliberation behind, which is why I think the 240 system can actually be overwhelming to a new player, since there is so much stuff going on alredy.

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It's a shame the 240 system isn't as good as it sounds, its a real nice idea on the paper but yeah, not worth it, will make the game infuriating, harder than it actually is because you are struggling with it instead of just pressing a button and focussing on the fight.

The game already throws fuckload of information at your face, constantly. Having to deal with 240 system makes everything convoluted imho, it is definetly overwhelming to new players. I had to practice for about 300h to get used to it and pull of "consistent" attacks and what not. 300h to get used to attack imput scheme, this is ludicrous and unacceptable imho, also the constant threat of wrong imput no matter how long you play with it. Any serious comp player from any game would be against this imho.

Very good video Stouty, u bring light to a real issue tbh