Mordhau
 DerFurst
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@Smeelio said:
I am very glad this thread contains these political discussions
I almost, ALMOST, put discussions in quotation marks

smeelio is too smart for us

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@vanguard said:

@DerFurst said:

@vanguard said:
A white Brazilian man, never learned how to write, lives in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural wasteland. His life is basically plant a few things for his survival and sell any surplus. Closest city has around 20.000 people and never really developed.

A rich black man in the united States, had the best education available that money can buy, had always access to Internet in a very well developed city, and works as researcher in NASA.

The white man probably doesn't even have the condition to make a IQ test, as he never learned how to read even.

There might be biological differences, yes, but they ​are meaningless compared to socioeconomic environment, don't you agree?

It wouldn't change the fact that these people don't have the same inherent genetic potential.

But it doesn't matter compared to socioeconomic environment.

It's like a bodybuilder. Some people can workout consistently for years and make small muscle gains, while some people can workout inconsistently for months and make huge gains. Genetics are unfair, but that's how it is.

Still doesn't change the fact that socioeconomic environment is a huge factor.

If all economic conditions were equal and everyone had the same level of education and money, you'd see very easily what genetics do. There would still be an aristocracy and an upper class, but it would be a purely racial and social one, rather than economic.

Not necessarily. To end economic disparity you need a classless society to Begin with

The only solution to this inequality would be to mix all the races together, but that would create a strange and ugly person with no history, no identity, and they would still be inferior to any unmixed person.

History and identity are one thing, race is another. Brazil has history and a national identity. The ugly thing is just a matter of opinion tbh

If you are going to answer this, bring it to the political thread pls we continue there.

When you end a society of classes and make a classless society, people's genetics will be the new inequality, Vanguard. Genetically gifted people will always separate themselves, even if there are no official classes. Races will always want to separate themselves and remain unique.

Socioeconomic factors are huge. Genetic factors are huge. Stop saying that the economy is more important than genetics. I'm saying that they're both equally important

Race is not separate from history and identity. History is tied to genetics. Humans create history. Humans have genetics. Humans are greatly influenced by genetics. Therefore, genetics have a big role in history.

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I suggest we wait for mordhau

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@vanguard said:
A white Brazilian man, never learned how to write, lives in the middle of fucking nowhere in rural wasteland. His life is basically plant a few things for his survival and sell any surplus. Closest city has around 20.000 people and never really developed.

A rich black man in the united States, had the best education available that money can buy, had always access to Internet in a very well developed city, and works as researcher in NASA.

The white man probably doesn't even have the condition to make a IQ test, as he never learned how to read even.

There might be biological differences, yes, but they ​are meaningless compared to socioeconomic environment, don't you agree?

It wouldn't change the fact that these people don't have the same inherent genetic potential.

It's like a bodybuilder. Some people can workout consistently for years and make small muscle gains, while some people can workout inconsistently for months and make huge gains. Genetics are unfair, but that's how it is.

If all economic conditions were equal and everyone had the same level of education and money, you'd see very easily what genetics do. There would still be an aristocracy and an upper class, but it would be a purely racial and social one, rather than economic. The only solution to this inequality would be to mix all the races together, but that would create a strange and ugly person with no history, no identity, and they would still be inferior to any unmixed person.

...But it's not all sad, Vanguard. People have the power to influence their own genetics through the environment, through selective breeding, and if you have very strong control over your own subconscious mind, through self-programming. People aren't doomed because of their genetics, and eventually anyone could create a superior version of themselves and their race. It's just not an easy thing to do, and it takes a long time, which is why everyone should stick to their own races and try to make superior versions of that, rather than to mix. Ultimately, human will has the power to overcome genetics, but your starting point and the energy it takes to reach high points will still be different.

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@nohbdy said:

@DerFurst said:

Anarchism is what you have when you destroy a government and a power vacuum is created. To expect a nation to stay that way forever is ludicrous.

No power vacuum is created. Destroying the state must come through violence, power, that is fulfilled through the militias of the people. Once the power of the state is destroyed though, that power doesn't magically cease to exist. It exists in the hands of all the people. Remember what I said before? The key defining factor between a nation-state and a stateless society is the dissolution of the monopoly on the legitimate use of violence. The key word is legitimate though, which again is in the hands of the people to decide through direct democracy.

"Violence" is never "legitimate." Violence is just violence. Its legitimacy is based solely on opinion. Therefore, "legitimate" violence can exist in any system where the majority agree, regardless of the political system in place. You can't say that anarchists committing violence are any more justified than anyone else.

@nohbdy said: Also remember, "Boehm, having explored data from 48 societies spread across the globe, ranging from small hunting and gathering bands to more sedentary chiefdoms, suggested that with the advent of anatomically modern humans who continued to live in small groups and had not yet domesticated plants and animals (Hunter-gatherer), it is very likely that all human societies practised egalitarianism and that most of the time they did so very successfully.[21]
Boehm writes:
'As long as followers remain vigilantly egalitarian because they understand the nature of domination and leaders remain cognizant of this ambivalence-based vigilance, deliberate control of leaders may remain for the most part highly routinized and ethnographically unobvious.'
Boehm identifies the following mechanisms ensuring the Reverse Dominance Hierarchy: Public Opinion, Criticism and Ridicule, Disobedience, and Extreme Sanctions. Further characteristics include ambivalence towards leaders and anticipation of domination." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominance_hierarchy#Reverse_dominance_hierarchy)

Egalitarianism is a rather mixed up idea. People say that they are "egalitarian" because they advocate equal rights or treatment for all people. However, egalitarianism's core belief is that "all humans are equal," and a cursory glance at the nearest two people you find will tell you otherwise. Egalitarianism in practice ignores the obvious inequality inherent to nature. Why would I want to adopt a worldview that requires constant mental contradiction to maintain?

@nohbdy said: Naturally, an Anarchist society would be no different than this.

@DerFurst said: There will always be someone willing to seize power, and these people can only be stopped through using force.

No shit, Sherlock. How do you think an Anarchist revolution happened in the first place?

It sounds like another glaring contradiction for an anarcho-communist revolution so worried about "voluntary association" and the "initiation of force" to involuntarily overthrow a government by initiating force. I'm also curious as to how you propose to overthrow a powerful centralized government without the use of a highly centralized military.

@DerFurst said: There are always evil people desiring to seize power. That is why you, as a good person, must seize power for yourself, to protect those who are weak from evil.

@nohbdy said: Human beings are highly social animals; we can do this together without creating hierarchies. For the record, leaders can exist in an egalitarian society as long as the power of the "reverse dominance hierarchy" that is maintained by the people is equally as strong as the people's trust in their leadership, so that leaders must essentially be enslaved to the interests of the people ("deliberate control of leaders may remain for the most part highly routinized" describes the relationship between the people and their delegates in the union for example) or else they must be replaced. This keeps an equal balance of power between leaders and their people.

If a leader is enslaved to the will of the people, and the people are absolutely wrong, then there will be no one able to guide them off their mistaken path. They'll believe anyone who tells them to do things contrary to their false beliefs are evil tyrants and destroy them. This grants more power to the people than their leaders. It's like when children get to dictate what their parents should do for them, because the parents are too afraid of standing up to their own children.

@DerFurst said: You will never, not in a million years, teach humanity NOT to want to have power for themselves. Part of seeking power is human nature; we want power because being weak means our lives are hard and miserable.

@nohbdy said: Which is a very good argument for why anyone who is not a politician would want to take control over their own lives through Anarchism or why anyone in the working class would want Socialism

Self-mastery does not require anarchism, and the principles of socialism can be applied more easily and effectively when there is a government involved.

@DerFurst said: As a byproduct of seeking power, some will always desire power not over themselves, but power over others.

@nohbdy said: This can happen, obviously, but Anthropology would suggest that this can be prevented. Naturally, we propose that it would be best if we went back to preventing it.

How do you propose we do this? Teach people not to be power-hungry leaders? It would be like a feminist saying "teach men not to rape!"

@DerFurst said: When the class structure is destroyed, the inherent weaknesses and strengths of people will be revealed.

@nohbdy said: The inherent weaknesses and strengths of people have always been "revealed," especially under statism and capitalism where strengths and weaknesses are used as a means of justifying the domination and exploitation of others.

Social welfare allows for weak people to maintain unproductive lives despite being weak, while on the opposite hand it allows the sick not to be persecuted. When you remove the laws and government structure, the unproductive people would rather riot and steal than work, and the sick people will die without help from the community, and who is to say the community will always be around, willing, or capable of helping them?

@nohbdy said: We don't deny that disparities in the capabilities of people exist; we merely reject that domination and exploitation can ever be justified.

Why do you practice egalitarianism if you admit inequality exists in nature?

@nohbdy said: Even if a person is stronger than another in every imaginable way, all that means is that person is more capable of doing either more good, more ill, or both to society. Especially when said people are given power over others, evidence such as the famous Stanford prison experiment would seem to suggest that authority and dominance actually make people even more likely to cause harm thanks to the corruption that power has on the human psyche. Superiority is a delusion, and faith in authorities is trust in leaders turned into a religion.

Power is like fire - a dangerous substance but a powerful one that can be put to good use. You reject the notion of power simply because it can be misused. You're throwing away a hammer because you could accidentally hurt yourself with it...

@DerFurst said: You act as though we are alone. Again, human beings are very social animals, and I'm pretty damn sure there'll be a hell of a lot less inequality without statism and capitalism around.

I'd like to see how your motley crew of anarcho communists looks like without any desire or methods of preventing degeneracy in your ranks. The few good people would be totally eclipsed by a horde of lawless thugs and degenerate idiots looking for an excuse to free themselves from societal constraints.

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On the contrary, I explained things quite well

@vanguard said:
"Everything worked out perfectly in Spain until the evil capitalists came and destroyed everything."

@DerFurst said:
There will always be someone willing to seize power, and these people can only be stopped through using force. There are always evil people desiring to seize power. That is why you, as a good person, must seize power for yourself, to protect those who are weak from evil. This is why governments are not inherently bad

Maybe if "anarchist spain" had a government to stop the "evil capitalists" from destroying everything, it wouldn't have been so easily destroyed. Have you thought of that?

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the last 50 are probably bots

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I'll leave you with a warning Vanguard.

Anarchism is what you have when you destroy a government and a power vacuum is created. To expect a nation to stay that way forever is ludicrous. There will always be someone willing to seize power, and these people can only be stopped through using force. There are always evil people desiring to seize power. That is why you, as a good person, must seize power for yourself, to protect those who are weak from evil. This is why governments are not inherently bad. Evil will not go away no matter how much you try to educate the world on "peaceful cooperation." You will never, not in a million years, teach humanity NOT to want to have power for themselves. Part of seeking power is human nature; we want power because being weak means our lives are hard and miserable. As a byproduct of seeking power, some will always desire power not over themselves, but power over others.

When the class structure is destroyed, the inherent weaknesses and strengths of people will be revealed. There will be no hiding behind society to protect you from other people. You will have to fight for yourself. You will experience a level of "inequality" that you have NEVER experienced before. When there is no "class," power, strength, and cruelty will determine who is on top. You will experience a "tyranny" under communism that you could never even imagine in capitalism - and I don't even support capitalism.

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@vanguard said:

@Monkeytoes said:

@vanguard said:
Why didn't it won the war then? USSR stood much more time and stomped all over Germany, thus it's better tbh

because the ussr was massive, hitler was an idiot, and it was a war on two fronts

lol, at the end of the battle of kursk, just before the nazis broke the last line of defence, hitler ordered all of the troops of the eastern front to fight some stupid invasion in Sicily

USSR also had a much better industrial complex, which is what matters when we compare modes of production. Also Nazi Germany relied on slave labor, it go back in history. USSR had poorly paid proletariat, it was the future tbh

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

lmao vanguard, Nazi Germany had slave labor? what the fuck is siberia even

Here's what communism did to Russia:

1: lead to the death of 80-100 million native russians due solely to the government starving, overworking, or outright murdering its own civilians

2: stole everyone's property leaving millions homeless

3: stole farmers tools so they couldn't even make food for themselves without relying on the government

4: drafted soldiers into the army, including women and small children, and forced them to fight for fear of being killed. Morale became so bad that soldiers would be positioned in the back of battles to shoot anyone caught fleeing, since no one actually wanted to fight for their evil government.

5: completely disregarded human life and considered all soldiers disposable cannon fodder. The government gave them absolutely evil orders like "charge straight into that fortified position and don't stop to take cover" or "run over that mine to blow it up to clear a path for our tanks"

6: destroyed all literature and art that gave people hope and new ideas

7: outlawed all religions (except judaism) so people couldn't even pray to their god for mercy

8: completely neglected all aspects of a working economy and a working national infrastructure, and instead focused entirely on building guns and war machines

The USSR was literally HELL ON EARTH, and a fine example of what will happen to the rest of the world if the Jews aren't stopped here and now.

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@vanguard said:

@DerFurst said:
unless you're an anti-intellectual coward

Hahah look who is talking

well-that-didnt-work-an-abbreviated-history-of-communism-15413467.png

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@vanguard said:

@DerFurst said:

@SIEGE said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
bell curve.jpg

This just counts the total population I think. Doesn't take into account the average IQ of blacks and whites with equal education.

ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL AND ALL PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS

200k years of evolution? Radically different genetic hominid and near-human ancestors per race? Differences in skull size and brain mass? Differences in hormone levels? ALL SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS

Don't you get tired of being such a retarded person?

red-and-yellow-is-a-combination-that-make-you-hungry-17716009.png

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this is what happens when they Aryan invaders leave your country

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@SIEGE said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
bell curve.jpg

This just counts the total population I think. Doesn't take into account the average IQ of blacks and whites with equal education.

ALL HUMANS ARE EQUAL AND ALL PROBLEMS ARE DUE TO SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS

200k years of evolution? Radically different genetic hominid and near-human ancestors per race? Differences in skull size and brain mass? Differences in hormone levels? ALL SOCIOECONOMIC STATUS

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BLACK MAGIC SPECIALIST

geez that sounds pretty nifty

But is it black magic because the person doing it didn't wash their hands, or black magic because it's evil?

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

auschwitz-the-facts

I invite you to read this, unless you're an anti-intellectual coward like you keep trying to claim we are:

https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/

Auschwitz, the supposed "Death Camp," was a goddamn candy shop compared to even American internment camps.

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

ODb5fG1

Hahahaha ratt, you're an idiot. It wouldn't matter if it was from the Dresden Ohio train crash because the photo was clearly edited already. I suspect that this was indeed from the concentration camps and they were burning already dead corpses to prevent disease.

You're willing to do anything to defend the holocaust at all costs, but you're unwilling to acknowledge anything that shows you the opposite. There's an enormous amount of evidence I've already shown you that you've neglected to acknowledge.

So let's get back to it:

There are dozens of legitimately doctored photos of supposed mass killings and atrocities, which were either edited fakes or purposefully mislabeled (usually of communist atrocities). If the allies are willing to doctor ANY photos to create a fake narrative, that throws their entire narrative into question.

The "6 million" figure was in use by Jews over 50 years SEVERAL TIMES before the actual "6 million dead" came up. At different memorials you see the number go down several million, even going down as low as 1 million, which means the numbers clearly aren't verified. What's even more is that the American Red Cross only counted 150k dead from starvation and diseased, cause by allied bombings destroying Germany's infrastructure. There weren't any plans for an extermination either, despite Nazi intelligence being decoded by the enigma machine.

But I guess none of that matters to you, high and mighty intelligent man.

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

@Rattsknecht said:
I remember one girl in my college unironically believed that "slavyano-aryans" wehe true founders and ancestors to every civilization in the world, she said there was evidence everywhere and told me to watch those documentaries. She also believed that nuclear weapons were used in 1812.

Forget whatever history lessons tought you guys.

That's guilt by association because nobody here who thinks badly of the Jews or questions the holocaust has argued any of that.

Also, way to keep moving them goalposts buddy, we already debunked over two dozen photos, which should at the very least get you to question the validity of all of them, but you've not even acknowledged them. So the next question: But, what about the 6 million!

But what about the 6 million number? Is there any validity to it? Frankly, the answer is no, since Jewish Zionists had been using the "6 million" number as part of sob stories for "Jews in danger," often due to circumstances they themselves instigated, to drum up charity funds since the 1800s, even in Russia.

Forget the fact that this source is a biased pro-islam website and read the innumerable quotations of the six-million figure being presented before the "holocaust" was even an idea:

http://radioislam.org/islam/english/revision/six_million_myth.htm

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

@Monkeytoes said:

@DerFurst said:

@vanguard said:
What I mean is, you all lazy fucks who goes the easy way instead of studying a real Theory of Economy and shit

aboleesh all the monies and gubbermants and de economy will work by peacefool cooporashun by sheeftin de moad of pradukshin awey from da burgerwasei to da prollyteranaut

furst, why arent you in office yet? a political genius at his prime lies before us, gentlemen

howma supposa bein offic if we abalish da gubberment tho?

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

@vanguard said:
What I mean is, you all lazy fucks who goes the easy way instead of studying a real Theory of Economy and shit

aboleesh all the monies and gubbermants and de economy will work by peacefool cooporashun by sheeftin de moad of pradukshin awey from da burgerwasei to da prollyteranaut

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  • 27 May
 DerFurst

...Voici, le modèle pour qui tous les hommes de France aspirent à suivre

superdupont