Mordhau
 Seseau
  • Likes received 107
  • Date joined 12 Sep '17
  • Last seen 18 Dec '18

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58 107
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  • 17 Nov '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Seseau said:
No one in their right mind would argue that men and women are equal on a biological level. No one in this thread (or any thread) has said that women as a whole are as strong or stronger than men. You keep harping on these points when literally no one has denied them. Yep, men are stronger than women. We know. Everybody knows.

Don't strawman me, I didn't said you said that. The problem is eriyana said (and people approved : "women would be able to fit in there without having a disadvantage due to being a woman. And if they can kill you, then they are equal." "And if both genders genders can kill with the same weapon, then yes, they are 100% equal, since you can't go much further than killing your opponent when it comes to strength."
Which is egalitarian absurdity.

Pretty much what everyone but you is saying boils down to: it's not a realistic game, and even if it were, there's enough cases of women fighting throughout history to justify the addition of women in Mordhau. Not that it needs to be justified, because it's about customization and not history.

It is a realistic game since it is intended to be "as believable as possible", I answered to every objections on this. Examples of women fighting are exceptions, and they should, at least, stay exceptions in Mordhau (hence the OP). Mordhau is not about customization (or else there would have no subject, but about medieval warriors and knights, women breaks it.

It's not too hard to read between the lines either, between your desire to "roleplay as a tough guy among men only" and wanting to keep mordhau from "SJW agenda", your problem is political through and through. It's silly to even say you have no political angle when it's all you've been throwing.

My concern is for immersion AND for being safe from feminism (note it's not political but meta-political). Yes, I 'm not feminist and it have an impact on my rejection of women on the battlefield, but I could still be some kind of feminist and want immersion. Like I could be black and want games about europe not be filled with non-european.

So yeah, no clue what you're trying to achieve. Every user on the forum now knows you are a proud conservative, congratulations.

Yeah, I am a proud lover of the medieval age and of knighthood, does that make me a conservative necessarily ?

Buddy. The devs themselves have weighed in on the issue, and pretty much said it was about customization. They've also said they don't want the game to be 100% realistic, just "as realistic as possible while factoring in gameplay and fun". You are stretching the FAQ to fit your agenda. The CREATORS OF THE DAMN GAME have said as much for crying out loud. Do you decide what their game is about, or do they? Come on. From the moment they answer you and outright state their intent, you cannot discuss that point anymore and claim that Mordhau aims to be ultra realistic. They said it doesn't, in very clear terms.

Besides, I'm willing to bet that if we pit you (or many other men) against a woman, both armed with a sword, you wouldn't necessarily fare so well. A sword is a sword. You're not using your fists and stamina doesn't matter as much as you think, one stroke is enough.

You are lost. Just a woman hater wanting his safe space from """feminism""" and the likes. It's scary to think you can vote when you so obviously dislike 50% of the population for no good reason. It's a game. People play it to have fun, end of discussion. There is no point in looking beyond that to try and mold it to your conservative views. Deal with it.

Please let people enjoy what they want to enjoy; more options is always better.

Libertity and diversity right ? I am a conservative but you are totally not a liberal feminist.

That last bit, by the way, shows that you're in this for the politics. Anyone who disagrees with you is instantly labeled a communist or a liberal. I couldn't care less that you are a conservative. I don't care about whatever political label you apply on me either. I have stated no political views in any of my responses. Only you have.

Do some self-reflection, please, for everyone's sake.

58 107
  • 17 Nov '18
 Seseau

No one in their right mind would argue that men and women are equal on a biological level. No one in this thread (or any thread) has said that women as a whole are as strong or stronger than men. You keep harping on these points when literally no one has denied them. Yep, men are stronger than women. We know. Everybody knows.

Pretty much what everyone but you is saying boils down to: it's not a realistic game, and even if it were, there's enough cases of women fighting throughout history to justify the addition of women in Mordhau. Not that it needs to be justified, because it's about customization and not history.

It's not too hard to read between the lines either, between your desire to "roleplay as a tough guy among men only" and wanting to keep mordhau from "SJW agenda", your problem is political through and through. It's silly to even say you have no political angle when it's all you've been throwing.

So yeah, no clue what you're trying to achieve. Every user on the forum now knows you are a proud conservative, congratulations. Please let people enjoy what they want to enjoy; more options is always better.

58 107
  • 16 Nov '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
In his mind we're the ones pushing politics by being sjw pushing a feminist agenda or whatever buzzword these people throw at sane people these days...

It's just a feminist view, it isn't necessarily intended to be it or to be propaganda. But in the end, it reflect a feminist egalitarian view.
The problem can be the view in itself because of someone aversion to this ideology, but it is also the fact it breaks all credibility to the game, and so all immersion due to this ideology being not credible at all. Let alone in the medieval area, where sexual egalitarianism is clearly not the rule.

I genuinely want to know why you keep posting. You're not interested in discussion, you clearly only want to repeat your points ad nauseam, no matter what other people say. Literally. You just answer the same thing every time. There has been no progress whatsoever to this topic since you made the first thread about it.

At this point it's painfully obvious that you're not going to change your mind, no matter how many people disagree with you or tell you that, just maybe, you're taking your views in the context of a game a tad too far. So what's the point?

58 107
  • 13 Nov '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Seseau said:
You can't truly think you're speaking for the majority here. The people who are "normal gamers". I would genuinely assume the large majority of people wouldn't give a damn about women being in a game. On the contrary, whenever these topics show up, it always seems to be the same crowd coming to ring the same bells.

I can't know, but I know for sure that players love immersion/role-play/not-feminist game. I just say the forum can't represent anything.

It's saddening to see how deep people entrench themselves in this "right vs left" divide. You're not playing basketball here.

Here it's more those who like some atmosphere vs those who do not want it. And indeed the right like the past while the left reject it and like the progress. So the left wing don't like traditional authentic atmospheres or at least don't care about that. It doesn't chock leftist to see knights turned to clowns as they fight against women. Indeed, I think leftism can be defined in some way as an anti-traditional spirit, as SJW showned, they are pleased by destruction of ancient codes/morals/beauty in video games. I'm not accusing anyone of comploting, but some right wing guy would have more attention preserving the immersive medieval style. So yes, it's a difference of sensibility.

This is a gross oversimplification of just about everything. Right vs. left isn't black and white and it's pretty ignorant in general to pin it down to "this concept is right wing and that concept is left wing". Anyway, that's really your own problem.

You're really mixing everything together here too, it's actually amazing. Somehow politics tie into a game, and wanting women in a game means you hate your own heritage and you want to see history destroyed. Possibly the biggest reach I've ever seen. You are well beyond discussion.

58 107
  • 13 Nov '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Rattsknecht said:
Well being able to play as a woman is fun, so there goes your point.

Well being able to play as a dog is fun, so there goes your point.

@Ƭheodore said:
women break your immersion? and swords phasing right through other players like lightsabers 3 times before the other player dies doesn't break your immersion?

"For the sake of gameplay"

You're just whining, the armor is all the same anyway. a lot of people will appreciate the extra customization options. The three or four of you who constantly complain about women here on the forums are in the minority. you're gonna be fine if there's women in a video game.

Forums are not representatives. Everyone knows forums are left leaning 99% of the time since it's communities of lazy hedonistic geeks. Discord regulars, always the same that intervene in these kind of thread, are not representative of anything. Also this kind of topic get answers in the first few hours from the residents of this forum, why would an external person interested in this game intervene after that, when everything is already treated and the consensus is clearly against his position ? I do it but there is a lot of understandable reason for people to not intervene. Be it for example the apparent determination of the devs. It doesn't make my intervention wrong, it just make the lack of complain like I do understandable. The consensus against me is also understandable. I just argue for the normal player that don't have the time to waste on internet forums. Players of the game won't be the same people that use this forum or the discord, there is plenty other kinds of people.
You have a great name, wear it well.

You can't truly think you're speaking for the majority here. The people who are "normal gamers". I would genuinely assume the large majority of people wouldn't give a damn about women being in a game. On the contrary, whenever these topics show up, it always seems to be the same crowd coming to ring the same bells.

It's saddening to see how deep people entrench themselves in this "right vs left" divide. You're not playing basketball here.

58 107
  • 13 Nov '18
 Seseau

You guys are so far gone.

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  • 19 Oct '18
 Seseau

I don't know why you keep trying to reason with the man. He does not want to see reason. He's not interested in reason. You will never change his mind. He does not care for discussion, and never did.

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  • 12 Oct '18
 Seseau

@ĶiĻăƦesrumpMcBøøgerballls said:
But sadly this has devolved, as usual, into a retarded PCSJW shit storm that had legit concerns at the beginning, into personal attacks and that is simply boring and sadly got sucked into it.

You want to be a woman in armor, go for it, princess. I and many others, don't have to like it or enjoy it. Hopefully they will add a voice slider at a minimum and/or keep the designs to a bare minimum. To many of us, it just seems like a huge waste of time, energy and effort for little to no benefit other than transgender knight roleplay.

And I am done.

I do not understand people like you. I want to, I really do, but I just can't. I consider your views to be not quite extreme, but on the other end of my personal spectrum. But that's fine. Theoretically it would make for a good discussion with different opinions. Except it doesn't, because people like you, any time they are faced with an idea which doesn't perfectly align with their views, descend into insults like "PC SJW cuck".

You consider anything you disagree with to be "leftist cuckness", which further drives the point home that you're way too deep into political tribalism to have an actual, healthy discussion with anyone. America seems to be sinking deeper into the "left vs right" divide, to the point that it's becoming silly. And you are part of that. How can you be, I assume, 40+ years old and not entertain the idea that perhaps politics are more nuanced than red vs blue? That living together as a society entails compromises, and more importantly that people generally just want to be left alone to do their own thing without others telling them that their appearance, their sexuality or whatever is not "morally correct"?

I don't get it. But it baffles me that people like you can go through life thinking they're utterly and completely in the right for beratings others for holding different opinions. I pity you and your narrow mind.

Example: Why does anyone wanting to play as a woman have to be a transgender cuck or whatever? Can't they just find the idea of a badass warrior woman cool? The other dude keeps going on about roleplaying as a tough guy, and that's just dandy, but liking the idea of making and playing your own personal Brienne makes you a homo? We're not talking about fucking our in-game characters here, for crying out loud. You're merging game characters with sexual orientation, and I cannot fathom why.

58 107
  • 11 Oct '18
 Seseau

@ĶiĻăƦesrumpMcBøøgerballls said:
Be honest, when a woman is yelling at you, mom, sister, girlfriend, what do you do? Tune it out if at all possible or you bend the knee to get them to shut up. Who wants that in a game?

This says so, so very much about who you are and the shitty opinions you hold. I love it.

58 107
  • 11 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Xatrian said:
strong women are gay who would possibly want to procreate with someone who could pass on genetics that would make your children strong and healthy
fucking homos

It's not gay to like healthy women but to like female bodybuilders and females that behave like men and so won't be proper wife material.
Having a fetish for women acting like men, if not explicitly sexual, is kinda gay.

I was on the fence about believing whether you actually hold these opinions until now. But congratulations, a troll well done. Go enjoy your well-earned rest, soldier.

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  • 10 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Xatrian said:
No, i'm saying that some people might like the aesthetic of a giant female warrior, which is exactly what I fucking said. You're injecting political motivation into every single thing you see.

feminism is not political in the strict sense as I just said, it's meta-political, feminism is about liking masculine stronk women. That's the all point of giant female warrior, because in fact, visually nothing will change, the height of characters can't change. Only stay your strange fetish for stronk women.

You cannot possibly think that. I refuse. That is just way too far gone.

"Feminism is about liking masculine stronk women". Just.. what?

58 107
  • 10 Oct '18
 Seseau

You are very clearly not interested in any actual discussion, and you mostly want to listen to yourself. I don't understand why you made this post at all when you listen to nothing that is being said to you. You're basically acting like a child covering his ears.

58 107
  • 10 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Shovonem said:
I honestly think Shield + One handed should be better than just one handed weapon. Otherwise there's no point of using Shield. Some people complain about OP shield and yet you barely see them in high level. People would rather use long weapons/better armor as they are better option in the team fight. On the other hand, shield is a crutch for noobs to last longer in a fight cuz you can just hold your block. Waiting to see what the devs bring on the table.

Shields in the hands of a good player is rather obnoxiously strong. I personally can't beat it at all. Against new or average players it's possible to just slam away at the guy without chambering or feinting to outstam him and drop the shield, but against better players who make their attacks look like garbage, it's a lost cause. At least for me. The guy becomes untouchable.

58 107
  • 10 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@Duguesclin said:
I already said why plenty of times. Because it's abnormal, non-historical

I already showed you there are at least a hundred named examples of warrior women since the Roman empire. You only responded to Jeanne D'Arc out of all of those. It's obvious you are the one ignoring the historical facts. Since we have hundreds of named examples, it's safe to assume there are thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of unknown ones. The history argument is completely invalid. Even if they are exceptions, it's historical grounds to include women in this game. Even though it's fucking retarded that we are arguing historical accuracy in a historically INSPIRED, not historically ACCURATE game.

Since you apparently find it hard to respond to every argument made, I will make it easy for you. Respond to these:

  1. Since we have a ton of examples of women warriors in the medieval period, as I have shown to you before, there is a good historical basis to include them in this game.
  2. Women can be included regardless of historical accuracy, since the game is not historically accurate in the first place.

I already showed you the list you linked is not reliable with examples like Johan of arc (used in the list), women in the sunnah (not fighters, only giving food and arrows to the men,...). Thus I don't care about the list you gave to me with all your laziness. Exceptions don't break the rules, anomalies existed in history. Also it's funny to see these "historians" even with their transformation of reality to their advantages have really few exceptions of women fighting given the geographical and historical range they take. Like the "one girl somewhere in the world have been buried with an axe ! wow it's totally a warrior ! It can't be the axe of one of her relatives !)Also, the list use legends and facts that can't be used as arguments in favor of women fighting (for example noblewomen leading armies (you don't have to go fight yourself in this case, and it's justified by necessities sometimes, so seen as a lesser evil but not justifying women fighting) and/or fortifying castles isn't an argument).
I also answered you on the Valkyries, showing you it's not a good example, since it's mythological... and the viking society were patriarchal.
The game is about warriors and knights, so women have no place. As the analysis of history show that 99% of the fighters were men we can clearly say that women fighting is not natural and is absurd, unless you make women weaker in this game. If you don't have immersion, don't break it for others.

Dozens of people have answered in the thread. You are literally the only one who cares this much about immersion, and just about everyone is telling you you're wrong. There's just the one baby boomer who's riding the thread to express his rampant misogyny.

I wouldn't even consider KingInTheNorth's argument about women warriors that uncanny. Yep, men are by and large vastly stronger than women. Yep, we have records of women fighters, albeit only the successful ones and they are few and far between. I'm sure that throughout the Middle Ages, at least a few women took on dudes and won. It's not an anomaly, it's just a minority. It existed, but not to the extent that it would be realistic to have battlefields with women soldiers only. Thankfully though, this is not a realistic game, as per the dev's own definition. You keep clamoring that it is, but if the makers tell you it's not, then at some point you have to accept that it's not. They get to define what the game is, not you.

Please, have a bit of perspective. You are tone deaf.

58 107
  • 9 Oct '18
 Seseau

@ĶiĻăƦesrumpMcBøøgerballls said:

@Seseau said:
People like the guy with the Homer Simpson avatar scare me.

Does precious need a hug and a safe space? I have some warm soy milk for you.....

Funny you should say that, as you're the one who seemingly needs a male safe space from women.

58 107
  • 8 Oct '18
 Seseau

People like the guy with the Homer Simpson avatar scare me.

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  • 6 Oct '18
 Seseau

This is so bizarre. If you want historical accuracy, go read a historical novel or a textbook. Pretending women can be as physically strong as men on a general level is just as silly as pretending no woman warrior has ever existed.

As Monty said, the warriors in Mordhau are mercenaries. There, no knights. Ergo women who are able to fight can do it. End of discussion.

Also,

@Duguesclin said:

@renaissance said:
with how much you talk about wanting a "masculine atmosphere", im starting to think you're into sausage parties

@Seseau
The masculine atmosphere thing does sound kind of gay.

"bros are gay, and virility is homosexual" poor b8 m8 1/8

The implied message was: if you need to find your virility through a game, you're likely doing manhood wrong.

58 107
  • 6 Oct '18
 Seseau

The masculine atmosphere thing does sound kind of gay.

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  • 6 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@vanguard said:
Everything is "meta-political", not adding women could be seen as meta-political too, pandering to right-wing fundamentalists which this community is actually filled with. The fact is, everything is effectively political if you want it to be. Why this community has so much of this is beyond me, but it is nothing new really.

As long as you stray away from normality (i.e. women not fighting), it becomes meta-political (a feminist view of the world). Defending traditional roles doesn't make you a "right-wing fundamentalist" as you say, stop projecting, everyone isn't an extremist.

Also this "grounded in reality" as a base argument on why there shouldn't be women in the game is weak tbh, if you think on "grounded in reality", Silent Hill is that, half-life etc. Grounded in reality still means fantasy, its just not full retard fantasy.

Mordhau can't be compared to Silent Hill or Half-life because these are fantasy (not just fiction but fantastic genre), one being about zombies and the other about aliens.

What most people here are trying to tell you is that traditional values, as you like to call them, have no meaning whatsoever in the context of Mordhau. You complain about people bringing politics into the game when you're the one doing it. You choose to make this a political issue despite people telling you it isn't. Women exist. Some have fought in wars. There isn't much else to say.

The devs have decided to go in a direction you disapprove, they've even provided you an answer which says as much. It's their game, they don't have to mold it to your exact liking.

Quite frankly I find your idea of everything having to adhere to "normality" rather scary (who gets to define what is normal and what isn't? Just because something is consistent throughout history doesn't make it right or even normal. Up until the 1900s, it was not normal for women to have jobs. Turns out society does just fine when they have the ability to hold jobs, who knew). This isn't even talking about you bringing """feminism""" into the whole ordeal. Notice the many quotes around feminism, because you're really downsizing feminism to the nonsense we see these days about the few idiots claiming women and men are equal in every way, that women are just as physically strong as men, etc. Real feminism is just striving for equal rights between genders, nothing more, nothing less. True feminism is about the perception of men and women in regards to us as a society, it's not about redefining biological differences.

It baffles me that people bring that sort of topics into games. They are games for crying out loud. This is just about human beings in armor beating on each other and cutting their limbs off. The women we'll see will no doubt be closer to Brienne than to Scarlet Johansson. You have women at the Olympics who can lift and throw weighs, you have women who do MMA fighting, and so on. Is it that far-fetched that a more-bulky-than-usual-woman would put on an armor and go fight? I really don't think so.

PS: Silent Hill is so not about zombies. And Half-Life is science-fiction, not fantasy.

58 107
  • 6 Oct '18
 Seseau

@Duguesclin said:

@Seseau said:

@Duguesclin said:

@Duguesclin said:

@Seseau said:

Furthermore, and as I said, Joan of Arc was not just a flagbearer. It's all muddled of course, but a cursory look at her Wikipedia page will tell you she acted more as a general and that she sustained several wounds. Which means she was at the very least on the battlefield, and possibly partook in the fight. The truth of the matter is we don't know. But considering the fact that she was a religious lunatic, it would not surprise me if she did fight.

Look at some paintings, she was in the melee as a flag bearer. Yet we know she killed nobody. She defended herself when she was attacked for sure. But for example, when she was in jail, some men wanted to rape her, she only had to look at them, because of her aura, men left with shame, she is described as a saint.
Furthermore, exceptions don't break the rules. They are not less valid because of some transgressions.

Come on, man. I just said we don't know. We have no way of knowing. We have historical accounts which strongly suggest she acted as a general, because siege tactics drastically changed upon her arrival. We know she conducted several campaigns with the king's blessing, and that she did inspire men. We know she sustained wounds.

All we can do is extrapolate, and you're here referencing paintings like they're damn photos. I don't know if she fought. You don't know if she fought, and it would be foolish to pretend that you do for sure. We'll never know. I personally believe she was somewhat of a nutjob and likely did fight.

I base myself on respect historians like Régine Pernoud. Not on paintings, people say she was inspired by God, so she made the right choices as a general who gained the confidence of the french dauphin. But it's another thing than fighting and killing.

But your personal crusade against women in wars is now turning weird. It is very clear now that you are not interested in anyone's opinions and you just want to rant about "traditional values". In a game. Where you can defy physics. Have some perspective.

It's about traditional values as you say as much as it is about plausibility and the fact it break immersion to see a women soldier, because it's unnatural. I don't have personal crusade, I just like the game and don't want absurd women fighter to break the immersion.

Imagine that you're fighting Brienne from Game of Thrones then. I would certainly be scared.