Mordhau
 Monsteri
  • Likes received 761
  • Date joined 26 Oct '15
  • Last seen 8m
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484 761
  • 24 May
 Monsteri

This is what happens when Crushed is unsatisfied with your moderation

Screenshot_2017-05-25-01-11-05.png

484 761
  • 24 May
 Monsteri

The alpha is going to be pretty barebones mates, don't think they would have time to implement detailed stat tracking of all things. Maybe some general ones like kills and deaths, but other than that probably not.

484 761
  • 23 May
 Monsteri

mirage.PNG

Discuss

484 761
  • 21 May
 Monsteri

But what if fire arrows lit up splotches of oil and hay stacks?

484 761
  • 20 May
 Monsteri

I'm sure he got the message by the third post. Be nice to each other and whatnot.

484 761
  • 19 May
 Monsteri

Put me in the game and I can ban all the fallen so they're dead for realz

484 761
  • 16 May
 Monsteri

The US should prove all the haters wrong and go there a second time

484 761
  • 1
  • 16 May
 Monsteri

@stael said:
Archer efficiency vs. melee efficiency is just a matter of tweaking values. This thread is about making ranged mechanics less cancer to play against.

@Monsteri said:
The worth and not-worth is something that can be adjusted later by tweaking numbers such as damage or cost. What is important now is finding a good mechanical implementation that adds depth and is engaging ingame.

These posts were 30 seconds apart.

Goddamn hivemind, stael

484 761
  • 16 May
 Monsteri

The worth and not-worth is something that can be adjusted later by tweaking numbers such as damage or cost. What is important now is finding a good mechanical implementation that adds depth and is engaging ingame. Archers must have counterplay that is inherently enjoyable, not something that is only a bandaid fix to the fundamental problem.

484 761
  • 16 May
 Monsteri

@Jax said:
Minimum range (deflections)
As opposed to variable damage, a minimum range for ranged weapons to do actual damage could positively influence the game. I'm going to borrow a little bit from the dreaded "real life", and use some realism here to give you some context. Then I'll explain how this would be beneficial to the gameplay.
So IRL (ew), an arrow actually has to go around the stave of the bow, and to do this it bends and wobbles until the flights on the back of the arrow take over and stabilize it. It's called the archer's paradox.
How does this relate to Mordhau? Well, Triternion could use this to add a deflection mechanic to the game, where using a bow or crossbow at essentially point-blank range causes the arrow to deflect or hit sideways, essentially bouncing off the target. The point of this is to discourage archers from holding a bow shot as their target gets within melee range, and letting it loose as the person starts their swing, flinching them and allowing the archer to switch to a melee weapon. This mechanic makes archers unable to get easy shots at a range where the target is physically and mechanically unable to react, because it's impossible to time a parry, and otherwise you'd be vulnerable when trying to attack the archer you successfully closed with.
To put this in perspective, a deflected arrow could do ~5 points of damage, be non-flinchable, and come into effect at around 2 to 5 meters.

This probably would feel really unrewarding to the archer, I don't think it's a good idea. If there's either a consistent draw and release animation or a sweetspot mechanic, the melee player will be able to pretty easily anticipate the shot and parry it. There's some room for mind games here, such as the archer starting to aim but then canceling to bait out a parry or the melee player attacking to bait the shot, then feinting to parry and riposting off the arrow.

484 761
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

I think the better approach is to have a consistent animation for actually drawing and releasing the arrow. It lets any approaching melee player best anticipate any defensive actions he might take, be it parrying or zigzagging.

484 761
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

That's pretty obvious, but it's a serviceable thread anyways as I've had this subject in mind from time to time. Simply something I couldn't be arsed to make a thread about, but here it is.

484 761
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

@King Peasant the Ruthless said:
Why not remove text from UI completely, people couldn't read back then

Only people who couldn't read were the people who didn't need to read, might be a big improvement in today's world tbh.

Anyway, as text only I don't think it's all too understandable. In a longer story and with narration you can get a pretty good picture about what's happening, but it wouldn't work that way in short strings of text. I'd like them to not use completely modern English though. Using archaic words that are still understood today combined with this middle English wording structure would create a pretty convincing result thematically while still understandable to non-linguistic people.

484 761
  • 1
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

Righto right here I'm typing out warnings and it keeps continuing, thread pruned, stop being autistic now or I'll start banning.

484 761
  • 1
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

I almost deleted Stouty's comment because it's one of those jokes that immediatly destroys a thread, but it describes some of the posts here too damn accurately. Less thread derailment and poo flinging now, please. You don't have to use petty insults to get your point across.

484 761
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

Hypotethical counterplay to archers would revolve around either closing the distance or disabling their supporting ability. You don't need mechanical counterplay and you really can't have it without throwing all realism out of the window, but it doesn't matter. Countering archers will simply be about strategy and loadout utility when they're properly designed.

484 761
  • 1
  • 15 May
 Monsteri

@DerFurst said:
Here is another archery solution:

Buff armor tiers by giving them a gameplay effect against archers: If heavy plate armor is hit at a very long distance by a regular arrow, then the arrow will not flinch the player, and the damage will be extremely insignificant, to mimic the fact that arrows shot from far away lose the power to puncture armor. This also applies to bodkins, though the damage will be slightly upped to a reasonable chip instead of hardly anything. For medium armor, the same affect is applied, except the distance required to initiate the "no flinch, extremely low damage" state will be a bit further away. This will cause a "dink" sound effect to play instead of a visceral flesh sound effect, to signal to the archer they were too far away and to let the person who got hit know that they were just hit.

This gives archers incentive to be much closer to the combat if they want to be effective, otherwise they won't be able to flinch heavily armored opponents and they won't do nearly as much damage to heavy and medium armor tiers. If they are closer, they're easier to catch, react to, and easier to kill with all types of weapons, melee or projectile both.

For light armor and naked, this effect is not applied at all and damage will be much more virulent. This is to ensure that archers can still be killed easily by arrows and throwing weapons themselves. It will also encourage archers to shoot lightly armored players instead of the heavily armored guys, letting the "melee bois" have more breathing room in fights. Archers won't be able to "snipe" heavy melee specialists to kill them or even flinch them unless they get close enough to be killed by melee or throwing weapons themselves. This includes thrown secondary weapons if you're a pure melee man.


I like this. Lighter armored melee guys can also probably equip a shield to still help against archers somewhat. If you can move it around while it's in active blocking state, might also be able to cover your whole body if you knew where to anticipate the arrow.

484 761
  • 14 May
 Monsteri

Don't forget Neo who exists as a sentient digital entity roaming the internet and feeding off the collective computational power.

484 761
  • 1
  • 14 May
 Monsteri

I have a strong, strong dislike of projectiles myself as well and would probably prefer not having them in the game, but overall they contribute far more to the game's ultimate success than they detract from it. As DerFurst said, the devs went through the same shit in Chivalry so they'll likely want to prevent archers being unfun to play against and uncounterable.

During ye olde Slasher days we talked about them quite a bit, and keep in mind this was only exchange of ideas even back then, so things might turn out differently, but it seems like projectiles won't be very cancerous for the most part.

1) Throwable projectiles have a windup animation of their own that you can't feint, allowing easy prediction of the proper parry timing.
2) Bows (not sure about xbows) could have the same. They might work by first raising the bow to aim using RMB, then clicking to shoot with LMB, which triggers an animation with consistent timing for the arrow release. This theoretically would allow one to parry arrows fairly consistently if they're able to focus on the archer.
3) Archery mechanics would encourage one to play at mid-to-close range where they might be more easily punished.
4) To equip a bow, one must use a special kind of vest for it, which is your torso armor. Quiver also takes an inventory slot, which restricts the archer to one 1-handed melee weapon only.

As far as I see, archers would only be useful at holding a vantage point and when the enemy is preoccupied in a melee fight, basically a support class. They will also be shit at holding or taking objectives with the bow if the level design permits, so once enemies reach the objective the archer will have to switch to his secondary and join in on melee. Items such as smoke bombs or fire pots might also make a reappearance, properly implemented this time and would effectively disable any archers for a small period of time, forcing them to either relocate or switch to melee.

Also keep in mind that the pub gamemode won't be as linear as Chivalry's TO, but from what we've heard rather more like Battlefield's Conquest, meaning big open maps with multiple objectives. If some place has lots of archers there, you could just fuck off and go to a different point or flank them rather than engaging in a fight where the enemy has melee + ranged support. It might make an interesting dynamic strategically that in certain conditions a melee + archer combination is superior to that of only melee, so you would have to find a way to either separate the two or disable the other. Since we're already theorycrafting, let's construct an example of this:

mordhau_illustration.png

It's a 6v7 situation with red team having all melee players, blue only 4. Teal are archers. One red player with a dedicated "thrower" loadout could throw down two smokebombs before the engagement and render the archers useless in that situation. He might also throw some firepots next to the smoke to force the archers to take damage if they want to join in melee. This kind of dynamic would breathe more life into the strategic metagame, which with melee only would probably be rather dull and stale.

484 761
  • 1
  • 13 May
 Monsteri

Yeah the style is not well executed at all. There's nothing really wrong with the theme choice itself, but the color palette is just plain whacky and over-exaggerated, there is practically no visual hierarchy in any given scene so it ends up being a confusing mess. They also try to go for a cartoony and this sort of scenic painterly style at the same time, which just ruins the best aspects of both styles. Cell shading and flat shaders on character models with garish purple clothing clashes so badly with the rest of the aesthetic. They should go for the latter style and commit to it, in my opinion.

This screenshot for example would look great without cell shading, garish purple and flat character shaders (open in full view):

Mirage_Environment_2.png

I also made some brief adjustments in Photoshop to illustrate my point about the colors and shaders:

miragefixx.gif

It's not perfect by any means (conflicting light sources for example) but I think the readability is vastly improved and your eyes don't bleed quite as much.