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I didn't have this problem yesterday, but started having it today. 10/10

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Using those rules I'm gonna go ahead and give my attempt at how a good story for Mordhau could look. So firstly to answer the Historical Realism Question, I'm gonna use AngelEyes idea of the Apocalypse, but instead of doing exactly that I'll justify the event. On the front of setup, we'll go with a simple start, an Old Kingdom - a trope to be sure, but let's see how we can make this interesting. Our end goal is to make pit at least 2 Mercenary Companies against one another in a way that is simple to explain and compelling while also being realistic.

In the last days of the Kingdom, the old King Segrick marched against the Barbarian Tribes in the Wild Lands who had united under one Chief and set out to plunder and destroy the rich lands of the Kingdom. Segrick called all the vassals of the Kingdom to his banner and the nobility answered his call. But against the Barbarian Tribes they were only about equal in strength, so to bring the odds into his favour the King sent out the call for Mercenaries. They came from all the places they could be found, from deserts to mountains high.
The largest of these Mercenary bands were the Iron Company. The men of the Company were feared across the realm for their brutality and discipline. Bandits and Rebels often surrendered rather than fight them and their leader Morcar, a man who was so dangerous not even the nobles of the Kingdom dared to insult him for his common status. Nearest in size to the Iron Company were the Free Guard. The Guardsmen were considered the noblest fighters in all the Kingdom, for they never dishonored a contract. Their Integrity had won them many a contract against less scrupulous competition. Indeed, if it was Integrity and Nobility which defined the Free Guard then it was these same traits which were embodied in the leader of the Guardsmen, Captain Roland.

As part of their Contract, each of the Mercenary Companies took an oath to fight the enemies of the Kingdom and uphold the King and his line.

The aging King Segrick, who was still childless at the time decided also to nominate his heir which was to be his young Nephew who was still a child of 8 at this time. Once these affairs were in order, the great army of the Kingdom marched north to deal with the Barbarian threat. For 2 Years, the war dragged on, the Barbarian Tribes avoiding direct conflict with the armies of the Kingdom - but finally, under the Spring showers battle was met and 100,000 men clashed in a battle which would forever change the face of the Kingdom. Great charges were led by the highest sons of the nobility against walls of spears, pikes and clubs, lines of Infantry fought bitterly in the mud and lines of archers rained arrows down upon it all from their raised positions. In the midst of this rode King Segrick flanked by his bodyguard coming up the centre to strike at the Barbarian Encampment. Yet there, as the lances were lowered and the hooves of the cavalry thundered, King Segrick was wounded gravely and died on the field. The battle against the Barbarian Tribes was won, but the King was dead and most of the army that went with him. The flower of the nobility was crushed on that day and all the Kingdom was left in turmoil.

In the wake, a fierce struggle to reach the King's Nephew was undertaken. Captain Roland marched to meet him and set the young boy upon the Throne, honouring his contract and finishing his service to the Kingdom. But Morcar, seeing so many lands deprived of lords to rule them saw his opportunity to usurp the throne by killing the King's Nephew and using his Iron Company to bend the people of the Kingdom to his will. The war for the Kingdom was on - Roland and Morcar would call any and all who would flock to their banners - Peasants, Bandits, Cutthroats, even the leftover nobility! The time of the Knight is over - The time of the Mercenary is come - Fight for Coin and Kingdom!

After the Great Battle, where King Segrick and the nobility of the Kingdom died, the Kingdom was without much of what it required to run - The Nobles were for the most part wiped out, the Peasants, Craftsmen and Merchants were reduced in number as well, since so many joined to fight with the late King. Now to equip new armies, more blacksmiths and foundries were built, and men who had never wielded hammers before in their lives took to the art of making weapons and armour. No longer was the plate mail of the nobles commonplace but a luxury afforded by only those who could find and afford men who were still learned in the art. To fill these new armies, Peasants, the dregs of the Nobility, Bandits and Vagabonds found good employment.

That's my best attempt at what a good Mordhau story should look. But I've probably violated those rules I set out a couple of times, because I'm not great at the act of writing, more the planning for it.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone thinks I could improve on what I've said or written thus far.

I realise the devs probably have this stuff written out already, and I know they will add lore because I've had that question answered by Jax (thanks boi), but I think this has been bouncing around my head for a bit and I thought I might put it down on the forums somewhere just for the hell of it.

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I'm gonna start this post with my suggestions for what restrictions the Lore of Mordhau should follow and give an example of what sort of story I would write to answer the questions I raised in the previous post.

So, I've heard alot of talk of people thinking the story of Mordhau should allow for "moral gray" areas but I would STRONGLY advise against this mainly because it breaks one rule that I said should restrict the lore of Mordhau creatively, that is the story needs to be short and easy to explain. You can say many things about Chivalry but its story exemplified this so well I can explain it in a few short sentences : King on Crusade, King Dies, Crusade Comes back, Usurper Rises, Loyal Crusaders Fight Traitor Crusaders and Lords at home.

Let's use this story to decide on the creative restrictions that Mordhau's story will have.

Well firstly, the Story Simple, that is because the story has so many tropes but they aren't implemented in a typical way - When a king dies, of course there will be usurpers and perhaps even civil war, but the fact this happened in the context of a Crusade means that we've got something extra to chew on creatively - we can ask questions like "why did the crusaders split? which has an answer - they were already split into orders before the Crusade! It wouldn't be surprising that they would split if the king died on Crusade.
We can ask more specific questions like "what did the Crusaders do in the lands they went to?" well, there's more than one answer to that - They crusaded (obvious, but the specifics are not certain) - They fought (again, maybe not as obvious, but again the specifics are not certain). In the case of the latter question, there is where we have the creative freedom to think about what our Brave Agathian Knights would do against their enemies as opposed to the Brutal Mason Order? These questions and player engagement with the story can only be achieved because the story is Simple!
If I went on to talk about how Malric was the Chancellor of the Kingdom and how he was originally a good man but then his wife died or something, we would be so inundated with information that we'd check out after the word Chancellor and go back to not caring which side we're on.

This leads me to my second creative restriction namely, that the story needs to be Compelling. This is why I disagree with those wanting a 'morally gray' story. If I'm introduced to Malric and am told about how he never really wanted power and he is only usurping the throne to protect his people against the Agathian Knights and their cold conscription of the peasantry across the realm (I've already lost interest in the story at this point and have proceeded to go full patchie on the enemy who I don't care about other than their cries of "gay" and "faget" in the chat at my wrecking them). This moral gray shit doesn't work for our purposes, because it lacks one important aspect that the story of Mordhau must have - it must be compelling, I need to care about the factions involved however superficially i.e if I feel particularly evil one day I join the Mason Order to murder the pompous Agathian swine and their holier-than-thou attitude.
Without a compelling story I have no reason to care about what I'm doing other than it being a fun game, and while Mordhau is a fun game - It could be more fun if I have the same pleasure of cracking the skulls of the Free Guard as I do in killing Agathians.

I want to say at this point that its not enough to have the story be compelling and not be simple. If the story of Mordhau is going to work in any way like Chivalry's story then it needs to be Simple AND Compelling. THIS is the real clincher, any other creative restriction after this is subservient to these restrictions above and should be treated as such.

The final aspect that I think should be paid mind to is whether the story is Realistic. For me, the previous two restrictions can be fairly easily fulfilled. However, to combine realism with the two above restrictions is a VERY difficult thing to do and I would challenge anyone to create a story for Mordhau which follows these 3 restrictions without producing some gay fan-fiction off Deviant Art. I'm not trying to its impossible, I'm also NOT trying to say that you are all plebs who need to take a course in writing to produce fine literature (sniffs in upper middle class).
But realism encompasses both keeping the historical accuracy of the story and the internal consistency of the story.
In Chivalry, the story was fairly realistic. In history, whenever a King died, it was no certain thing as to who would inherit the throne cough Carolingian Dynasty cough Charles Martel and onwards. So that a civil war would break out when the King died really needs no justification. The story was also internally consistent because the Kingship was what was being fought over because Malric was a usurper and not some Commie Revolutionary i.e it would not be consistent in a Feudal State to suddenly have some guy proclaim a Soviet Union of Republics.

I think that all three of these points are necessary for a good story/lore of Mordhau - because I think these were the main points that got me into the world of Chivalry EVEN though it wasn't the main focus of the game. Considering these points are very few, it shouldn't be too hard (I hope) for the devs to write a good story for Mordhau, and I hope we get the lore soon enough.

I'm gonna leave an example of a story for Mordhau constructed using these points for the next post and that will be the end of my long shitpost on the forums (my apologies if I did break any rules, by the way).

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@Stauxie said:
I kinda joked about explaining the entire story arch of the two factions at the beginning of beta, but I guess I could say it here too.

Basically, the Iron Company is an arms manufacturer that started carrying out illegal mining operations, the Free Guard were the mercenaries hired to take care of those illegal operations. The mining company hired mercenaries of their own to defend their operations so they could continue making money.

Consider this a writing prompt for the more creative of the bunch.

@AngelEyes said:
I know how to make it work and I want compensation!
I called my idea Project Bellicose.

Why when we think post-apocalyptic we always think Mad Max or Fallout? Why couldn't the Apocalypse happen in the 15th century? You have armaments covering multiple centuries mixing and matching very strange makes that don't make sense, but they don't have to.

The world is "Mysteriously" shrinking ( Water levels really just rising or something) all cultures of the earths aesthetic get intermingled, new Religions and sociology's follow suite.

Take it where you want from there. But it fits Mordhau's of arms and amour dilemma perfectly.

I like both of these - Stauxie's idea is pretty cool but I'd say that story raises more questions than it answers and not in the way to make a good story. I get what you're trying to do here, you frame the entire thing in a generic context so people can run wild with what the rest of the world can be, but you aren't "saying enough, while also trying to not say much"(?)(hopefully I don't come across as a twat, but I'm just gonna give my opinion on it, idk take it or leave it).

What I mean is that I think the flaw in your setting is that I find myself asking questions like "wtf is the government doing in this presumably feudal society allowing a bunch of mercs to bash each other about across the realm?" (I know they hired them, but that shits expensive and it would probably be cheaper to use local militia + knights to deal with illegal mining operations - I know that in a creative context thats not necessarily the case these mercs could be UBER POWERFUL etc. and we need other mercs to take them down, but again, that just leads to more questions, like what situation allowed for mercs to run rampant across a feudal society to the point where they replace a standing army?)

I think an objective to have when making the lore for Mordhau is to make it stand up to scrutiny while also not answering every question that can be asked (otherwise we're just gonna make the Game of Thrones universe, which answers every question you have regarding the general setting - not saying it answers them well, but it answers them all the same). I'd say that's a pretty hard thing to do even if you're a writer by training, because there are so many constraints on your behavior in making the story.

BUT, its very important that these creative constraints be implemented otherwise you don't get a nice compelling little story like Chivalry (which I'm not even sure was intentionally constructed like that).

I'm not saying copy Chivalry's story btw, just that its the only game thats close enough to Mordhau where it is justifiably a useful reference.

AngelEyes, I like the idea alot - because it gives a reason as to why we're running around with nibbas still in Chainmail as their main mode of protection while the 15th Century Plate armour also wearable is by all objective measures the better armour (its just as light or lighter than Chainmail, but affords great protection not only against slashes, but also stabs AND retains mobility).

This is by far the hardest question to answer when making the lore for Mordhau. BUT I know it doesn't necessarily have to be answered, because Chiv didn't bother with that, and I found that I could look past that armour stuff.

However, since Mordhau is trying to be semi-historically accurate, I think we should at least try to answer this question.

BUT I should say that your idea on its own raises more questions than it answers. "Nukes and Climate Change cause the Mad Max shit (I think), but we don't have Medieval Nukes, nor do we really have the industrial capabilities to cause large scale Climate Change, so what causes this "apocalypse" in this medieval context?

If we're going to go with your idea Angel, then we need to at least give an answer to this question and we need to answer it with enough information to justify this choice WHILE also giving room for peoples imaginations to play around with the concept AND not being too long an answer.

I'm gonna follow up this post with another, because I think I can use your idea Angel, and keep it simple enough that you could summarize it in a few lines.

I'm not doing it here so I don't just shit out some long ass response which nobody will read. I kept this post to the topic of your ideas for the lore and not my suggestions for that reason.

NOTE : All this artsy shit is my opinion so please don't read what I'm saying as though I'm pawning off my opinion as fact - this post is just that, my opinion take it or leave it.

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Nice meme, but how are you able to play on the Horde servers? Whenever I try to connect it retries multiple times and then says failed to connect? Is there something I'm missing here or is there a problem with the build?

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I didn't play FL all that much (at most an hour) and I've been playing Mordhau fairly regularly before this Beta Test, and I have to say, having come from Chivalry, and being disappointed with the lack of Teamplay in modes such as DM and TDM (which is to be expected, they were never particularly teamplay-oriented), I couldn't find myself getting into FL, despite essentially waiting the entire time since starting (got about 160 hrs) for a Teamplay-Oriented Mode. Maybe I needed to give it more time, but I'll be honest, it was just CTF up until the end of the flags where you had to burn(?) the camp. There's nothing really to focus the team in a particular area other than a flag, which just sucks the fun out of the game.

It may sound stupid, but making the FL so "gamey"? - Arcadey - making FL so Arcadey in probably the only mode I intended to play for the duration of Mordhau's Lifespan was severely disappointing. I liked the story and setting of Chivs TO, its the only mode I ended up playing for my time on Chiv consistently because of its focus on a themed Objective rather than the flat monotony of DM and TDM. Incidentally it was because of TO that I eventually branched out into trying out TDM and DM and found that I could actually tolerate them as gamemodes. But without TO to fall back on, I would have never played Chivalry more than a few hours before putting it back down and doing something else. If Mordhau can't pull through with themed Objective-Oriented Gameplay like Chiv with TO, idk whether I'll end up playing it all that much. I hope I'm wrong, maybe I just needed more time with the mode, but I'm not optimistic given FLs current setup.

My criticism of the game in the previous paragraph is the most important part of this post, so I'd hope that is read first rather than what I'm about to say. But I think the devs deserve praise in that they are implementing story elements which for me is quite important - but I think you can go much further than just giving names to both teams - again just like TO, add in announcers setting the stage for the battle why you're fighting e.g "This Stalemate the Free Company have been enjoying is at an end, its time to show the rest of the army how Professionals handle themselves - push these whoresons back to the teet of their castle walls - we'll start by burning their defences at the river!". If this and other such flavour was added to the game, along with the introduction of themed objective-oriented gameplay (e.g Push the Bomb Cart to the Stables so the Free Company cannot house Cavalry in their camp anymore) I would be all over Mordhau all day every day.

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If I could, I don't know if Max looks at the Official Dev suggestions thread, but I'm gonna link to a post I wrote on how armour could be improved significantly as there doesn't seem to be any support for knights etc. from the 10th-> Mid-14th Century. I don't want to spam and just copy the post, but I don't want this to go unnoticed if the person in charge of making the armour doesn't look in the thread I posted it in.

Instead of just posting a bunch of pictures, I tried to commentate on how much I could get the Mordhau armour sets available to match the historically accurate setup. I don't want to just dump pics and not give a feel for how the armour In-Game could be improved.

Here's the Link ;

Hope the pictures along with the commentary help!

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  • 1
  • 20 Oct '18

Character Design
Looks like the armour options aren't set to be changed but I would like to suggest something that should be done at some point (maybe after release if it would take too much time). I've tried to making soldiers from the times that the games Armour ranges from (9th-15th Century I think) but it hasn't turned out as well as I think it could.
I understand the evolution of armour from these periods might seem quite easy to model but I can see a distinct lack of "Intermediate" armours i.e The period between when Chainmail was predominantly used and the period when Plate (or some form of it like Brigandine) was the go-to.
I think this is an area wherein the game is lacking in terms of armour options. It's a bigger shame because the intermediate armours look really cool and while there are elements of it in-game I've found that I can't recreate Knights from about 1150-1330.
There are elements of these armours in the game (e.g The Calf Guard Hosen, Great Helm) but not such that I can recreate - say, a French Knight from the 1200s.

Instead of listing each piece of armour that should be added in, I'm just going to post a picture of the armour that I tried to recreate and highlight some pieces which I think are quite important to add into the game.

I didn't try to recreate the armour down to the exact detail but I did want to make sure I was using something which was accurate to the period.

There's really not much that I can comment on with this, I can essentially recreate the Frankish Knight of the 3rd Crusade. BUT I would like to suggest that the Chainmail or Chainmail Tabard be changed to allow for the skirt to have either a fabric aventail (Maybe called Gambeson Longskirt) or a long chainmail skirt.
Although of pretty big important here is the Gambeson on the Legs - This is clearly at a time when the Chainmail Chausses are not implemented so perhaps an option for Gambeson Chausses could be added to better reflect this period.

Just another semi-contemporary example of the sort of armour I'd like to see implemented. Note that cloth/gambeson and chainmail is BIG in this era from about 1066-1200 - At least insofar as you can see BOTH on the person of the knight.

Here's where it becomes insanely hard to do the Knights justice. You may say - USE THE TABARD, but as you can find out, looking at the Tabard it has, included as part of it a PLATE cuirass something which is not going to be seen for another 200 years.
It may sound silly, but it would be the equivalent of comparing a Spanish Tercio of the 1600s to a Napoleonic Soldier of the 1800s - YES they are similar but a Flintlock is disgustingly advanced compared to a Matchlock and to even conceive of a Tercio using a Napoleonic Flintlock make that boi pretty OP.
So if I might be so full-on - PLEASE implement the option to cover yourself HEAD-TO-TOE in chainmail like this guy. The Chainmail tabard is good, but I cannot make the skirt longer nor can I add a Surcoat (that EXACT cloth cover that this guy is wearing). So could we add some chest armour which has this look?.
The current "Chainmail Tabard" is good, but the cloth on it cannot be changed to something historically accurate like the Surcoat and I would like that option.
ALSO look at those feet, all covered in chainmail, could we get chainmail feet pl0x.



Now we are getting into the era where Plate really starts to feature. Look at the second Picture for a moment - Notice those plate shin-guards - They're called Demi-Canons, they don't go all the way around the calf and they cover a leg which is COMPLETELY covered in Chainmail. Notice again the Surcoat is quite long. I think some of the skirt options for the other armour sets could be used for the surcoat but again, we need the option to use have a surcoat covering CHAINMAIL only.
Also, in the first picture I think there's an opportunity to add some new pauldrons. I'm not quite sure what they are - maybe they're an early form of plate pauldron but surely this could be implemented to add some more style to the game?



And here we have that Knight which I cannot remake no matter how hard I try. I think this is a result of the cumulative error of not adding the previous suggestions plus a little extra.
What do we have here that's not in-game? Chainmail Surcoat, Demi-Cannons with Chainmail.
But not only that - there's more. Look at the Knight's arms - we're beginning to get some plate on the arms in a similar form to the Knight in Picture 2 which IS a knight I can recreate semi-reliably.
But in short this knight in Picture 1 is still wearing Chainmail visibly, he still has a surcoat, he still has Demi-Canons (with sabatons now) AND NOW he has plate on this arms with the fanned plate on the elbows being round and this early plate does not enclose his arms entirely, for that Chainmail is still the main mode of protection.

I may have missed something in this post but I'll come back to it later if I do. Otherwise I'd just like to say that I'm not out to grill the guy who made the armour for Mordhau - he's been very creative with making each piece versatile so it could plausibly sit in multiple eras, but there are some pieces which simply can't double up for things like the Surcoat and a full chainmail armour set for 1100-1200. Nor can you really use the current set-up to mimic the armour of the Frankish Knights of the early crusades because there's not enough skirt options for the current Chainmail armours.
But I would like to see those few pieces of armour implemented into the game somehow at some point.

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  • 14 Oct '18

For Ango-Saxon Peasant fans

For Anglo Saxon Noble fans

For fans of dead Anglo Saxons

For fans of possible mistakes when it comes to colour scheme

For rich fans of dead Anglo-Saxons

For fans of the Basileus

For original fans of the Holy Land

For fans of Robert Guiscard

For fake hipster fans of the Holy Land

For poorer hipster fans of the Holy Land

For fans of the Holy Land who got lost along the way

For fans of reminding the frogs what their place is

For fans of a literal interpretation of the phrase "taking someone off their high horse"

For fans of stylish death on the battlefield

For fans of possibly another mistake when it came to colour scheme

For fans of not being part of the HRE because mom's spaghetti

For fans of the Kaiser

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  • 7 Oct '18

@Maxilatorn said:
We are fiddling with a background for the setting Mordhau finds itself in, but mostly to have some reference point creatively, I can't really go in depth about it tho because it's still in a very bare bones state and not quite figured out yet. If you're looking for some really in depth lore you shouldn't hold your breath tho as it's not a major part of our focus.

Sounds interesting - I just want something to care about other than killing people who are running around in the wrong colour.

I'm glad there is a story at all - I don't particularly care whether its a major focus, but something to set the scene is good.

Do you plan on giving some setting to the Frontline Missions? Not like dates and people or anything but something along the lines of " "The Reds" are holding a strategic supply post and "The Blues" need to capture it for [insert setting appropriate reason]"?

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  • 1
  • 7 Oct '18

Hi guys, I've been creeping on the forums since Kickstarter and only recently got into playing the game (if I've seen you around, I most likely would've been talking about sweats and how they're sweaty).
I don't go on the discord or anything, so maybe this topic has already been covered but the only thing I have seen regarding the background/story of Mordhau was that we were playing as Mercenaries for hire and we're fighting for gold.

I'm not one for wanting a fully fleshed out universe, but I feel like there should be some consideration given to a small story kind of like what they had in Chivalry in terms of depth. This might sound trivial and not worth much, but so far as speaking for myself, I know that in Chivalry alot of the time what prevented me from putting the game down was the motivation of killing the Mason usurpers or slaying Agathian dogs. I think it actually might help retain players if there's something more in the game than the option of picking the red team, or the blue team. At that point it might as well be Unreal Tournament (although I think their devs gave it a story).

Considering the upcoming Frontlines gamemode, which is said to be the main gamemode of Mordhau - I'd say a good place to start would be to come up with a basic background story for the world the game is set in and then justify each Frontlines map in terms of the story (Maybe even have an announcer at the start of the battle like they do in loads of other games like Day of Infamy, War of the Roses, Chivalry etc.). One of the concerns I'd imagine would arise is the fact that Mordhau has Historically accurate weapons and armour and how that would fit into a different world? I'd say its a simple argument of these things being developed in history are likely to be developed to a VERY similar style in another parallel world because most parts of the weapons and armour are PRAGMATIC decisions rather than AESTHETIC.

I know the devs are busy actually making the game - but I don't think this would take much time and I'm sure they could find somebody to do it for free (Community competition?).

I know I could be completely misinformed on this matter and the devs do plan on implementing a story (in which case 10/10 can't wait) but if I am largely correct and there are no plans for a story/background to Mordhau then I think this is an issue which can be remedied quite fast with little effort invested by the devs.

So, maybe this post could get the ball rolling? What do you guys think?