Mordhau
 TheShade
  • Likes received 102
  • Date joined 22 Aug '17

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93 102
  • 21 Mar
 TheShade

Failing to parry forces you to misparry (parrying after you got hit) which can lead up for another strike. This makes getting hit by accels a lot more punishing than getting hit by drags since when you missparry you are unable to make any action until you recover from your parry and your turncap is completely restricted. This also makes accels feel more punishing than what it needs to be. It would be nice to have some sort of slider so we can choose when we want to parry after getting hit.
https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/12888/fix-misparry/?page=1

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  • 21 Mar
 TheShade

@Stouty said:

@TheShade said:
You hit lots of accels on me and never see many people them that well. I don't blame the game for it, I could have parried them if I just got used to them and positioned myself better but you're accels are the best ones I've seen compared to anyone elses. This is nothing compared to reverses in Chivalry anyways and removing it would just remove more freedom from the game. Accels are fine imo.

It's good to have self-awareness of your own skill level but you've gone too far the other way now and assumed that after playing enough you'll be able to react to a 0.01 second window, which doesn't logically follow. Go watch a chivalry reverse and time the moment the weapon enters release until the hit lands, you'll find it's pretty much identical to these accels in Mordhau.

Instas remove freedom from the game, they're an equaliser that gives any intermediate player who can look down hard enough the ability to beat any player in the game

I do consider myself pretty good but I do not believe there is a problem. It's not 0.01 second window. You can parry it and read the feint window since there is time between the windup from were you can not feint anymore and release. Your muscle memory will get used to it, but when you're not used to consistently parrying accels like your own, it takes a while getting used to. Almost everyone in you video are not really considered pros, except maybe rise. You can also see their pad positioning and footwork to your weapon like at 0:10 mark in the vidoe, which just makes it a lot harder to read drags and accels.

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  • 21 Mar
 TheShade

You hit lots of accels on me and never see many people them that well. I don't blame the game for it, I could have parried them if I just got used to them and positioned myself better but you're accels are the best ones I've seen compared to anyone elses. This is nothing compared to reverses in Chivalry anyways and removing it would just remove more freedom from the game. Accels are fine imo.

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  • 23 Nov '18
 TheShade

If you nerf accels you also nerf drags as well since accels are all about hitting your opponent faster than what his trained muscle memory is expecting. Drags can not exist without accels. Restricting drags and accelerated attacks will only limit this games freedom even further.

That's what made Chivalry so much fun, because it was "broken". It never really felt limiting and I felt that I could find my own personality within my playstyle that I just can not find in Mordhau. In Chivalry there are bunch of options to use as offense to create your own personality with such as normal feints, body feints, reverse feints, reverses, accels, drags, waterfalls, side stabs, stab drags, overheadstabs/jump stabs and accelerated riposte stabs.

After a while in this patch when people get used to it, I believe drags will also become pretty ineffective and the only offensive moves that I can think about being usefull are normal feints, chamber feints, chamber morph feints, normal morph, chamber morph and jump stabs. 5 out of 6 of these are basically about feint reading.

Here the player does all kind of (bs) movements but it is so satishfying to be the player doing it.

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  • 15 Sep '18
 TheShade

@Naleaus said:
Maybe rewatch the first video and not cherry pick a single fight. Rick just backpedaled all the reverses and mostly got hit cause shit animation. Real fun to watch. Stouty did a whole bunch of dumb looking shit and got punished. Then check out the footwork that happens when Rick falls for a feint, or the early parries and then footwork to give time to catch the follow-up. The drags were the least interesting shit in that video.

To parry any reverse you sinpmy use footwork around your opponent. No one backpedals for reverses lol. I'm talking about footwork to read a feint, not to recover from falling from it. Objectively those fights were slowpaced. Slow for many casuals = boring.

What's interesting is the art of variating moves being used and not drags itself.

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  • 15 Sep '18
 TheShade

@Naleaus said:

@TheShade said:
It's fun and gives depth, you need skill to pull it off and you need skill to defend against it. A noob can pickup good feinting withing an hour and then make a 3k hour chiv vet start panicking.

This isn't Chiv, but let's carry on anyway.

No one can read Chivalry feints conistently since it has 15ms between a feints windup limit and release.

I don't play Chiv anymore, but pretty sure there's a 200ms cutoff on the feint window. Either way, it's not 15ms, so why make shit up?

Visually feints don't look that great for neither the defender or attacker.

Same with drags in Chivalry.

The defender just stands there without making any kind of "intense" movement. Feint reading is impressive for the competitive eye, but for noobs that don't really understand everything that's happening will find it looking boring.

If this is how you try to read feints, maybe that's the problem. How do you defend against a drag? By using footwork and pressing the parry or trying to punish. How do you defend against feints? By using footwork and not pressing parry and/or trying to punish. They're not that different.

It's fine if you like chiv drag meta, whatever. But give better reasoning.

Most feints are read by backpedling, staying passive and waiting for the end of the animation. Drags and reverses require more footwork to defend against.

Watch this fight between rick and stouty and you see how highlevel fights looks like and how dull and slowpaced it looks if you ignore the drags, reverses and accels. Watch the fights at 0:03 and 1:32. https://youtu.be/a4fnwirrp_M

Also this. https://youtu.be/cJVdV8gwQmA

What makes these fights somewhat interesting is the variation of moves that are being used. I'm for the removal of morph matching, but not at the cost of feints and morphs becoming too strong.

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  • 14 Sep '18
 TheShade

Drags being hated in Chivalry is a pretty huge misconception. Just look at the steam community forums and reviews about it. Not many hates it and those that does just get attacked by the community for not understanding the mechanic. It's fun and gives depth, you need skill to pull it off and you need skill to defend against it. A noob can pickup good feinting withing an hour and then make a 3k hour chiv vet start panicking. No one can read Chivalry feints conistently since it has 15ms between a feints windup limit and release.

Visually feints don't look that great for neither the defender or attacker. If you feint you go back to your idle animation thensstart a new attack, which breaks the flow of combat. The defender just stands there without making any kind of "intense" movement. Feint reading is impressive for the competitive eye, but for noobs that don't really understand everything that's happening will find it looking boring. Imo feinting should not be the meta but an option.

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  • 12 Sep '18
 TheShade

@vanguard said:

@TheShade said:

@vanguard said:
We already had a drag heavy meta, and it played pretty shitty tbh, to the point I was having more fun with chivalry than with this game.

Drag meta is full of retarded manuevers that are shit to defend against tbh, the game feels inconsistent and exploity.

Feints are much more clear, you Know why u got hit. Drags can be one or 3 other different things that you/your opponent did that resulted in a hit, some of these things have no intuitive way to deal with.

Accels and delays are also clear. Waterfall, frisedrag, footdrags, these aren't clear.

I think it's really poor design to have things like this. Think on quake, it is a consistent game with consistent mechanics. Easy to understand what is going on.

I legit don't get why a drag meta would be so much better and skillful.

The problem with Chivalry was the exploits it had. Why would you go back to Chivalry if you are tired of drags in mordhau? Chivalry's drags are a lot worse to read lol.

Well no lol, with patch 16 drags were WAY more readable in chiv then in Mordhau tbh. Although they did look worse, the point is that you could read it.

Drag meta matters because it actually takes skill to use.

And so does feints, think when you were a noob, did feints made you win against veterans? No, feints probably fucked you up even more. I get fucked all the time trying to feint here in this game, which means it isn't "press buton to win".

Drags in patch 16 was a lot easier to parry than in 17. I guess you mean that drags were bad back then because they were a lot harder to chamber.

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  • 11 Sep '18
 TheShade

@vanguard said:
We already had a drag heavy meta, and it played pretty shitty tbh, to the point I was having more fun with chivalry than with this game.

Drag meta is full of retarded manuevers that are shit to defend against tbh, the game feels inconsistent and exploity.

Feints are much more clear, you Know why u got hit. Drags can be one or 3 other different things that you/your opponent did that resulted in a hit, some of these things have no intuitive way to deal with.

Accels and delays are also clear. Waterfall, frisedrag, footdrags, these aren't clear.

I think it's really poor design to have things like this. Think on quake, it is a consistent game with consistent mechanics. Easy to understand what is going on.

I legit don't get why a drag meta would be so much better and skillful.

The problem with Chivalry was the exploits it had. Why would you go back to Chivalry if you are tired of drags in mordhau? Chivalry's drags are a lot worse to read lol.

Drag meta matters because it actually takes skill to use.

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  • 11 Sep '18
 TheShade

@PhillyCheesesteak said:

@TheShade said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
Feints are much healthier than swing manipulation as the main offensive tool in terms of visuals; it's easy to forget what the game looks like to outsiders and constant drag/accel spam does not look good in comparison to morphs + feints. This also makes things like riposte anims a less determining factor of what makes a weapon powerful

Mordhau has proper netcode and the existence of chambers, this means that feints can be balanced through mechanics and value tweaks - just because feints are very powerful dosen't mean the game becomes a 50/50. A player that can read will consistently beat a gambler

I strongly disagre with feints being healthier. Feinting in Chivalrys public servers was tabuu and strongly hated by the community, while any sort of swing manipulation was accepted (except for reverses). It was easy to see that outsiders from the competitive scene did not like the idea of there being an overpowred move like feints that barely took any skill at all to use. The game is being balanced around high skilled players right now and you are seemed as one of the best players currently, so ofcourse feints are not 50/50 for you but they will be for a lot of newcomers.

If feints are going to become as strong as they were in Chivalry the community will once again "ban" them from being used in public servers. It will become stale and boring to play since Mordhau does not focus that much on freedom/different ways to play. Feinting in Chivalry was so overpowered for the casual player that using it would be like cheating in a way so people just stopped feinting instead and came to a mutual understanding that feints did not fit in a place with pubbers. Just press a button and you win.

I'm going to guess you aren't in the alpha right now. Feints actually have a counter in this game - that you aren't a ridiculously accelerated attack.

I am but, but chambers are going to get heavily nerfed next patch.

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  • 11 Sep '18
 TheShade

@Stouty said:
Dragging to get round a parry was always an unintended exploit, quotes from TB prove this. Feinting was the core game mechanic to get past parries and should remain so (not that drags are even underpowered right now)

TB didn't know themselves what was healty for the community. They don't really have a good track record for being good developers. It was obviously not feints that made the community grow, which apparently they wanted it to be. Just because the game creator says that "this" is the way to play does not mean it is any good.

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  • 11 Sep '18
 TheShade

@GIRUGIRU said:
Feints are much healthier than swing manipulation as the main offensive tool in terms of visuals; it's easy to forget what the game looks like to outsiders and constant drag/accel spam does not look good in comparison to morphs + feints. This also makes things like riposte anims a less determining factor of what makes a weapon powerful

Mordhau has proper netcode and the existence of chambers, this means that feints can be balanced through mechanics and value tweaks - just because feints are very powerful dosen't mean the game becomes a 50/50. A player that can read will consistently beat a gambler

I strongly disagre with feints being healthier. Feinting in Chivalrys public servers was tabuu and strongly hated by the community, while any sort of swing manipulation was accepted (except for reverses). It was easy to see that outsiders from the competitive scene did not like the idea of there being an overpowred move like feints that barely took any skill at all to use. The game is being balanced around high skilled players right now and you are seemed as one of the best players currently, so ofcourse feints are not 50/50 for you but they will be for a lot of newcomers.

If feints are going to become as strong as they were in Chivalry the community will once again "ban" them from being used in public servers. It will become stale and boring to play since Mordhau does not focus that much on freedom/different ways to play. Feinting in Chivalry was so overpowered for the casual player that using it would be like cheating in a way so people just stopped feinting instead and came to a mutual understanding that feints did not fit in a place with pubbers. Just press a button and you win.

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  • 31 Aug '18
 TheShade

@chaquator said:
jokes aside i agree with the parry turncap being too tight

+1

There is also a turncap limit after a failed parry for like 1-2 seconds which should not be there.

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  • 16 May '18
 TheShade

All duels. Footwork in 1vx is the problem.

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  • 13 May '18
 TheShade

It's the extremely slow phaced gameplay, like the slow footwork that's just boring.

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  • 4 May '18
 TheShade

@elwebbaro said:
Very low priority right now so can't give you an ETA. They have to take the backseat for more important stuff.

Would you feel comfortablesaying the same for black people not being in the game yet?

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  • 30 Apr '18
 TheShade

@JasonBourne said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Would have loved it if they improved animations around it instead of all-out removal

This.

However, Crush said ripost anims are fine. I also asked good players and they all feel its fine.
For me it still feels so confusing because it barely has a windup anim (especially lmb ripost), its so passive (hard to explain, but it makes me confused like "is it a ripost? Is it a body feint ? Is it an idle animation?" and boom I get hit).

Also, sometimes it looks like an overhead while its an lmb and vice-versa (just like the pre-animfix patch) and it screws up my chamber attempt.

So if anims would be polished better, maybe ripost feints would be still a good mechanic in the game.

I don't think I've met a single competitive player who thinks riposte anims are fine. I thought the reason behind the huge chamber nerf was because they would make riposte animations easier to read and to visually look better and be more responsive which would lead to it being easier to chamber.

The current riposte anims makes it very difficult to chamber someone that is riposting in a 1vx situations as well.

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  • 24 Apr '18
 TheShade

@Huggles said:

@vanguard said:
Why do you want to nerf chambers, just remove the damn thing already tbh. Chambers needs a severe buff imho.

The only attack that kills chambering is stab drags that come from the top of your head as footwork can not be used to make chambering easier in that circumstance.

lmb drags >>> stab drags (even in previous patch)

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  • 22 Apr '18
 TheShade

@yourcrippledson said:

@TheShade said:

@yourcrippledson said:

@TheShade said:
. They have nerfed chambers so much for so many patches in a row now that it's a terrible playstyle alone and they are worried about people spamming chambers?

The game feels so much more like Chivalry now. Their philosophy went from skill based combat with focus to 1vx to a casual game where I can now defeat stronger opponents than myself and weaker opponents can defeat me.

Chambers are a tool to aid in your own personal play style. Not a "playstyle" in and of themselves. What are you even saying here? That if you only chamber it's not effective?

Mordhau has not yet had a state of 1vX that has worked as well as Chivalry. And before nubs could just kill pros with free hits due to the animation inconsistencies from 14.. use them properly as the tool they are designed to be and they work well. Try to adapt instead of assuming things are broken

I basically find the opposite of what you say to be true.

I don't say it as it should be a playstyle though. Here I'm arguing about that chamber trades would not encourage a spammy playstyle considering how hard it is to chamber anyways. I have adapted though and it is very easy for me to punish anyone that tries to chamber. Sometines I just try to bait someone to chamber by making a very simple lmb so I can get a free hit.

From what I see, the majority of vets consider this patch to be bad when it comes to skillbased gameplay. There arn't rly that many options to choose from now as well as they are removing our "freedom" in battle.

Limiting ones options inspires creativity. This is a game, so by definition it is a set of constrains we must work within. Opening them up doesn't necessarily result in a better game or higher skill ceiling or more freedom. Letting people throw the puck into the net in hockey gives you objectively more freedom, but it makes a strategy so powerful that it marginalizes other mechanics to utter pointlessness. So this (more freedom) argument has no merit in itself.

Also chambers are super useful. You can bait chambers, let them chamber you, and chamber them right back. This game encourages thinking ahead like this now, like a skillful game of chess. Where as before it was too spammy. No thinking required, just do the thing and hope enemy fucks up...

As a vet of over 2000 hours in this type of game, this patch is an improvement on basic concept, but needs to be fine tuned to feel smoother still. Maybe i would prefer they make shit a bit faster, maybe bring back RP.. but patch 14 sucked compared to 15 tbh

There are not rly that much options to choose from now. Without a drag heavy weapons you can basically only rely on feints, morphs and kicks in a fight between 2 skilled players in order to land a hit. The skill ceiling is lower now. There is a reason why worse players can win over better players now.

My tantrum for chambers came because "spammy" playstyle is no legit reason to not include trades for chambers when they have already been nerfed a lot. It's simply too easy to punish that's all.

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  • 22 Apr '18
 TheShade

@yourcrippledson said:

@TheShade said:
. They have nerfed chambers so much for so many patches in a row now that it's a terrible playstyle alone and they are worried about people spamming chambers?

The game feels so much more like Chivalry now. Their philosophy went from skill based combat with focus to 1vx to a casual game where I can now defeat stronger opponents than myself and weaker opponents can defeat me.

Chambers are a tool to aid in your own personal play style. Not a "playstyle" in and of themselves. What are you even saying here? That if you only chamber it's not effective?

Mordhau has not yet had a state of 1vX that has worked as well as Chivalry. And before nubs could just kill pros with free hits due to the animation inconsistencies from 14.. use them properly as the tool they are designed to be and they work well. Try to adapt instead of assuming things are broken

I basically find the opposite of what you say to be true.

I don't say it as it should be a playstyle though. Here I'm arguing about that chamber trades would not encourage a spammy playstyle considering how hard it is to chamber anyways. I have adapted though and it is very easy for me to punish anyone that tries to chamber. Sometines I just try to bait someone to chamber by making a very simple lmb so I can get a free hit.

From what I see, the majority of vets consider this patch to be bad when it comes to skillbased gameplay. There arn't rly that many options to choose from now as well as they are removing our "freedom" in battle.