Lionheart Chevalier
  • Likes received 2175
  • Date joined 19 Aug '17
  • Last seen 2 Oct

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1430 2175

Pretty much any melee based (spear, alt-halberd, shield) support load out will be better for the team than an archer support load out. Hell we've seen 3 firepot plus brawler perk loadouts do better than dedicated archers.

Archers are below everything in terms of damage output/cost ratio. Those annoying builder load outs are the only players that do worse.

I think Crossbows in a good spot and shortbow should not get any buffs. Both fit the roles of short range archer-> melee perfectly...

But why should Longbow be so gimped given its cost? Its like you need multiple really good longbow archers to bring down any one. You can argue that projectiles should not bother plate very much but Longbow should definitely be terrorizing everything less than plate... if not plate too.

Again, archers are currently the most dangerous when they switch to melee. Don't even get me started on how over powered the cleaver is.

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I really don't know why archers bother being archers, I don't find it rewarding considering how insignificant their damage output is. They can only steal kills or have their attempted kills stolen. Maybe they rape the shit out of you @Padan but I rarely see archers significantly contribute much less carry the team.

Archers shoot me often mid combat (prolly because I charge and target them alot) but I wear T3 and it makes them little more than a nuisance. Arrows don't really do significant damage to me unless they're multiple archers targeting specifically me and they're good enough to land hits where it hurts. Archers kill me by bow only if I'm already wounded and fighting someone.

Archers actually threaten me the most when they switch to war hammer/dagger etc.

I do not think it's unreasonable at all to buff specifically Longbow given its point cost.

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I think short bow should stay where it is. Longbow may need more damage to justify its point cost but eh that's iffy. Both should cost stamina.

Crossbow is in a sweet spot, very balanced imo.

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Actually a huge fan of stamina on drawing the bow. Tired of getting spammed by little archers. Ambush one and suddenly hes raping me with a cleaver while his friend kicks me and blocks all my target switches. Even when I get that nice longsword hit on them, they got plenty of time to just pull out whatever they want and overwhelm me.

Let archers draw the bow even at 0 stamina, they shouldnt have to be stuck waiting for their bar to recharge to do their main job... and maybe give them stamina on successful shots? But I wan them to have to be careful when close to melee and be at a disadvantage for arrow spam and getting caught unprepared for melee.

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My biggest frustration as a 90-120 ping player DMontyle... but wouldn't there be alot of other issues by switching parry to client side?

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Same issue here.

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Waterfalls are usually microdrags @Bodkin. Aimed from the say, right side into the left side. They can become a foot drag but then it's simply a wrong side foot drag and is pretty awkward/dodgy (a step shy of impossible)to pull off due to the tracers and turn cap.

Waterfalls don't really fuck with timing and even less so now that chambers aren't susceptible to micro-dragging.

A waterfall is also rarely an accel since you're trying to trick him into blocking the wrong way by letting him see the attack before you turn it into his flank.

Edit: You block waterfalls the same way you block an unaltered overhead. Simply block where the attack will land and adjust your parry's aim as the attack becomes a waterfall.

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Side stabs and side over heads really are the most natural thing in the world. When my brother let me take a turn on his newest game, Chivalry, side hits and distance were the most logical and natural way to break someones defense. Not delay/accels and feints. Afterall aren't distancing, flanking and location deceptions how you break defense in a real sword fight? Imagine how dumbfounded I was when I encountered my first delay drags and head bang feints.

Side hits and waterfalls only look bad when the parry box is set so artificially huge and it appears this was done specifically to make side hits less viable and put the emphasis purely on timing.

100% agreement with Frise.

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I can't keep up with most of this thread but I at least read through everyone's long posts on the first and last pages.

My problem with feints/drags is that a guy waves his sword around, twists his body around or head bangs to lure me into parrying and once I parry a perceived attack my sword falls from the sky just so he can hit me. Kind've pathetic. Yeah I should git gud but I'd also like to see them use deceptions that were less cheesy/formulaic and more intuitive/inventive.

I like shields in patch 16 cause they turn dragging/feints/morphs etc into something that took IQ. If parry box was a little smaller or at least thinner then we would see drags that look better and make more sense. Right now I'm certain I hit peoples sides and I then eat their riposte anyways. I want to see these next patches experiment with gradually decreasing parry size to find a balance.

We're not proposing anything crazy here, I think parry sizes somewhat smaller than Chivalry's would be ideal. Side hits felt so satisfying and made sense to defend against. This should be the staple of our gameplay.

I'm not sure anything can be directly done about feints being powerful besides shortening their window, increasing stamina cost and/or making chambers cost less stamina.

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I like new parry turn cap, means you have to commit to a block. Not run away then turn around to block when you hear the grunt.

You'd think this would've made side hits generally more likely but I feel like side hits have gotten harder to perform this patch when they were hard to begin with..? Someone walk me through why

Aside from that and shield issues I think this has been a great patch. Love the voice commands, archery seems mostly balanced, I love the perks system and the map changes. We now have a dark knight mod in the game how cool is that.

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I wasn't happy with the game when I initially started the beta. Recent changes and those coming in #17 will change that however, imo. I say take as long as you need to make this game amazing.

Why is halberd losing it's ability to take down riders? Why else would I spend 12 points on it lol Bill only costs 4 and is a decent weapon in it's own right.

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Flails when

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Yeah honestly there was a time when I would often use shield in third person and didn't really have any draw backs. Good luck flanking me and leg hits are predictable and readable enough even with limited vision. I just like first person better.

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Shotgun archery takes talent and makes sense with a short spear/crossbow. Nothing un-intuitive or cheesy about it.

People are gonna do it anyways, though, just a matter of whether there are trades against archery or not. Those annoying but really good archers would squeeze off their shot at you, and eat a hit as they switch weapons. This leaves both at roughly 1htk and the archer's 1h will likely beat a knight's 2h in this scenario. Many archers are good enough to shotgun without it being a gamble and the bigger their bow or weaker/slower their opponent the more likely they're going to win out. The bad archers who are gambling will miss and die anyways, flinch or no.

Instead of vainly encouraging archers to switch to melee with arbitrary/artificial settings we should be encouraging melee fighters to try flanking them, adopting new tactics for mitigating them(shields, smoke, alternate paths) or countering them with other archers. Archery balance really comes down to map layout. As in where good archery spots are set up, how much range/power these positions have in terms of controlling other objectives, how such positions can be out flanked/attacked and/or how the threat posed by archers in such positions can be mitigated via alternate paths and map cover.

No matter how much sway, range, power, flinch/no flinch, accuracy or point cost, etc are given to them, skilled archers will still be skilled and thus annoying to melee players of any skill level.

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No flinch on archery seems rather... overzealous. Crossbows, bows and throwing spears should definitely be able to flinch enemy players, especially at close range. Flinch removal on such hard hitting weapons is an artificial and arbitrary nerf.

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I'm tired of getting my rectum resized by people using federschewert lol

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This game is about timing your defensive input down to the ms ahead of accel+ping but after feint/drag/morph window etc. Thus the meta on the offensive end will always be about making you react too late or too early. Such moves and last second drags will thus always be the meta and if you nerf them fights will go on forever... until you nerf parry/chamber windows but then you're back at square one. THIS IS WHY PARRY SHOULD BE ABOUT LOCATION/ANGLE ETC rather than the corny and lame way Chivalry set it up. The game is really fast, yes, but slowing it down is just a band-aid to the real issues at hand. Slow it down and everything becomes ez block and ez chamber and you don't feel the pressure to try inputting before ping. The purest, most natural and intuitive moves come from players attacking a shield user. I'm impressed when Huggles or Naleus rape my shield. Those aren't muscle memory moves you use to break a shield and muscle memory moves don't work twice against a shield user without mindgames and ofc, skill.

This game:
"Let's remove jedi spin drags and back tracers"

"oh but let's make all weapons super fast yet draggable and make parry/chamber windows super small so people still hate themselves"

diabolical laughter

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We got executioner's sword, federschewert and bastard axe :,c Where's my bastard mace at? Otherwise nice update and no cheese so far. When will we make parry bubble smaller?

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Maul wouldn't be half as cancerous if it's thrust damage was reduced and or slower.

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My biggest problem with Chivalry's spin drags was that they were simply rehearsed moves that looked like other rehearsed moves. At high level it came down to making your spin drag look like a different kind of spin drag than it really was. A player using one spin drag could accidentally do a different move than he meant to and it will be just as effective. The skill really came from reading these moves and knowing when/if to use them. Footwork usually beat them out but sometimes dodging that reverse simply meant you now had to dodge/block the drag part or eat it if you thought you were out of range.

We need a high skill mechanic but why does it have to be spinning, delaying your swing or something absurd? Why can't the high skill mechanic be something that's plausible and doesn't feel cheesy, unreadable or sketchy? So it looks and feels like a fight and losing makes you feel genuinely outsmarted/outplayed?

This is usually the part where I go on about making parries more strict in regards to area/angle etc as opposed to timing.