Lionheart Chevalier
  • Likes received 2175
  • Date joined 19 Aug '17
  • Last seen 2 Oct

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Stabs are too floaty for accurate shield models now. Even now, with current huge parry size you read a side stab successfully just to get side stabbed anyways since it goes for so long. But I mained heater and targe a year ago and didn't have the issues cavemen claim to have. I saw Bodkin using targe too and he did just great despite my best efforts to get around his shield. He may have been sweating up a storm and what not, trying to keep up but keeping his circle where my attack drags and blocking with it was plenty intuitive. Far more intuitive than trying to block a slow motion, physics defying sword with a few ms of force field parry.

As for Kite back then, it held its own in team play but it was too big too read attacks when turtling in duels and it's "current problems" did not apply since stam was not an issue for it and spam poking a shield was not meta yet. Have you used shield each and every patch for dozens of hours? Kite issues sound more like 3p issues to me and most agree 3p shouldn't even be in the game.

Yeah I know everyone's a pussy about making parry and shield accurate but most level headed shield users agree that getting around shield should be easier, rather than impossible from the front. Make stabs shorter but slightly longer than before this patch, shrink shield parry boxes, give shields stamina buffs to keep up with 2h and remove raise/lower delays.

Patch 14 was the closest shields ever got to balanced and fun to fight and use.

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oog boog big kik

me strong caveman

shield man die now

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@Đ٣ąҜєM.livevorOrt said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Shield vs Shield will actually be even worse to watch with kick stun being the prioritized way to break a shield.

N1, you didnt get one fucking thing I wrote.

When you already COULD kick my raised shield and I ragdolled and got hit afterwards, it would have been my dam mistake I even got hit by the kick in the first place. Thats what dozen of guys cry all over about in like 10 different threads: Guys with shields raised up just backpedaling and you cant do shit about it and you cant punish it and it takes hours to kill a complete shitpleb cause of this.

Raised shields ragdolling after kicked would be a perfect punish for trash players doing that, while experienced shield players dont even get kicked while having their shield up. If they do, they know its their own fault.

The prioritized way to kill experienced shield players should be to just hit them cause their block isnt precise enough. Thats where the backchange to moderated block angles of alpha 14 or 15 would come into play.

I am not talking to you in my previous post but I'm scolding the 2h folk who keep coming up with shitty shield balance ideas when they themselves will never use a 1h let alone a shield. The reason it feels like I'm not "getting" what you're saying is because I am not talking to you or responding to your post.

I agree a much smaller parrybox on a shield is a great idea though only if stab drags are toned down a bit too. I would prefer accurate shield models but I understand this may be too overzealous for some. Kick stun is a bad idea, we've had it before and Chivalry had it for shields, too. We saw that kick stun in Chivalry was only bad for beginners and people in 1vX while getting traded was it's only short coming in duels, though it was a huge weakness with no riposte vs determined messer/sow trades. Without those trades we'd see players baiting kicks and punishing while using 1h cancer to win and that's what I expect to see in Mordhau if kick stun makes a return.

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Shield vs Shield will actually be even worse to watch with kick stun being the prioritized way to break a shield.

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A decent player with decent ping will now be impenetrable, will bait kicks and use 1h cancer to win, yes? Can't wait to dominate duels with targe and rapier/mace then. Might not even have to wear armor then lol since 1h cancer is ex potentiated by extra range from faster movement speed.. I rarely got shield stunned in Chiv why would I get shield stunned here but for my high ping?

Though... kinda sucks for the noobs who will try to learn the game with shield and spend their first few hours in constant kick stun. Is that really better than spamming stamina wars or leg/side shots? Imagine if @Gayfish grabbed a shield with his playstyle lol he'd out kick the people trying to kick him and cavemen will be asking for another shield balance update.

At least Chivalry had the heavy kick that took longer so it felt fair and looked good, will Mordhau implement a heavy kick to specifically break shield? Otherwise shield will still mop the floor in duels but be absolutely fucking useless in team combat since 2 guys will spam melee and one will kick... its not like shield passively blocks archers too well anyways lol Hell, it doesn't even block them too well when held up.

Again, I feel like most shield ideas come from people who look down messer/GS feint in T3 and would never use a 1h let alone 1h with shield. But when people who love and main shield suggest tighter hit boxes on them we're told what feels bad while everyone and their grandmother suggests absurd shit like stamina warfare, instant hit recovery on hitting shield and kick stun. If it wasn't good enough for the main game why would it be a good idea for shield users???

I'll reiterate my point, if a maul won't break a shield why would someone's foot? I loved that patch where you could parry/block kicks though the kick stun part was stupid.

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Why would kick ragdoll shield when a maul won't? Kick stun was removed for a reason.

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What are other shielder's thought's on shield balance and how it should be implemented? That's what this thread is about

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Honestly alot of duels with 1h go that way. Someone decides they're going to win no matter what and they only run away until you decide you're ok with maybe losing and risking getting kited and hit or stammed out. You may get lucky and get their turned back but if they're good they only do it when they know they're close enough to bait you but far enough to be safe if they run. If you don't riposte to try and get closer they can already be far enough with 2h to hit you safely.

You can try feinting their back but if they're good enough all the feints/morphs won't matter since they're waiting for the sound and it's not like they see your feints or you'll ever be close enough to accel after the grunt... they know exactly where you are the whole time but because they're not actually watching you, no feint will flinch them.

If you have a shield it's worse since you're at an even greater stam disadvantage and raise/lower delay clunkiness prevents you from getting the hit out when you need to... they just spam poke you and all you can do is retreat, reset the duel to neutral and if they've decided they're not going to lose no matter what... then they'll just do it over again. You'd think Zwei/halberd/spear would be the worst offenders but it's actually T3 LS/GS/Bardiche and poleaxe "melee gods" that do this the most. Lunge nerf was a good thing, no a great thing, but I imagine now this tactic is going to be even more viable.

Someone starts running away I just flourish the closest person and start a new duel, not worth the trouble.

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Yeah its bigger than heavy branch but smaller than gigantic branch.

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Not sure what the clip shows besides an early parry and then pause. What's supposedly wrong with the clip, and why are we even talking about shield icon? Is that the issue?

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Yeah! All your honest feedback and critiques as one of just a few alpha testers are now null and void!

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Imagine if shield was balanced... I'm not sure if the shield boys even have a stamina bar, I hear them panting but they don't lose their shield like ever. Otherwise you could mindlessly spam them just like in duels.

Anyways I agree with the OP, horde is a fuck ton of fun. However, the archers and projectiles do eat away at your health with ease. Arrows do minimal damage to T2+ but armor is very expensive and you kinda have a choice between an ok weapon with no armor or no weapon and T2 torso... I think T2 torso price should come down so scythes dont 1 shot us and arrows rape us. Otherwise everything is ideal.

ALSO archery is op against players but players with short bow are pretty op too. Not sure if this is an issue yet but shortbow is the preferred way to win the first few rounds.

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I think some bots defense needs to be buffed next time around. Too easy to drag them.

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So are we stuck in BR? Can we go back to FL at least? eijbpbivbbhabahsbpi


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That was a joke right

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@Lionheart Chevalier said:

@JasonBourne said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Shields don't really have a role. They're not good at blocking hallways, chokepoints or 1vX since they stam out quickly and come down when hit, they aren't good at dueling since it takes little IQ to stam out a shield user, I can be winning a duel with full health but I've lost the minute I get morph/feint to kicked, ftp, miss or double block a gamble... They're not good for learning the game because it simply lets anyone spam the shield to win and they're clunky. Shields are so incredibly weak to kicks, you can raise it when feinted, see your opponent switching to a kick but can't move away or counter kick because of raise/lower delay plus ping.

Shields aren't even good at blocking projectiles. They're ok at everything but worse than 2h or even 1h alone in most scenarios, especially where decent opponents are concerned.

They're clunky and not fun to use or fight against and clearly this is the issue. Telling people who complain about current shields being pointless that they're smoking something funny is not constructive and turned this into a shit fest. Do not go into semantics with me because you refuse to rub two braincells together and kick a shield user or run away from 1h.

Provide video. Duel some shielders and post here.

Shields are blocking melee like a wall, but cannot properly block trowables. Its a broken mechanic atm..

The fact that no one uses shields anymore is proof enough.

There are no more shielders to fight in NA, I'm the only one left who occasionally pulls it out in earnest besides noobies who quickly switch to something else. Saul goodman sometimes tries mace/kite but I can spam him or stam him ez and he rarely uses it longer than a life or two in general... and he's a much better player than I am.

I want to see raise/lower delays removed and a smaller/accurate parry box for shields along with higher stam negation but for maybe Targe/buckler. I would also like to see shield-drop on hit removed altogether along with parry drop on hit while we're at it. This opens them up to dragging in duels while allowing kite/heater to 1vX effectively without stamming out and allowing them to react to opponents. With shield-drop on hit gone, shields can block a doorway/chokepoint, take a side hit or leg hit and won't come down and doom the shield user to 50 simultaneous front hits. Stamina negation also encourages chambering attempts since stam isn't everything and thus, opens them up to mischambering and eating hits that way in duels. Feint/morph to kick may still be effective but it's not a guaranteed hit due to raise/lower delays and certainly doesn't guarantee an end to the duel since stamina is no longer everything.

Because shields are stuck with 1h that don't do much stamina damage, giving shields stamina buffs won't give them a stamina edge since 2h still does the most stam damage and 1h will have a hard time forcing stamina advantage without forcing misses (requiring some skill.) We now encourage beginners to learn to parry accurately, try chambering, read drags and to footwork attacks instead of turtling until they lose their shield. Big shields are decent at dueling but shine in 1vX due to parry size, stamina negation and are basically a direct upgrade to 1h... small shields shine best in duels or last resort scenarios and are more about style preference than direct 1h upgrade.

No need for new shield mechanics or anything absurd, basically just tweak shield stats to where their usefulness depends on the talent of the user. What do you think of those ideas Jason?

Read my essay and comment your ideas and critiques please :)

I think these would bring shields from their current handicapped position in duels to a skill based tool for duels and a powerhouse in team combat or 1vX.

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Maybe it's just me, but people were consistently able to get the drop on me and I simply did not hear them. I should look around more, for sure but are foot steps a little too quiet? Crouching should obviously be very quiet still but sprinting should be louder I think.

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Yeah let's argue about archers in the shield topic

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The fake chests in the dungeons need to be addressed.

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I absolutely hate BR but Mordhau's take on BR has been fun. I don't like that combat often comes down to back and forth kiting until someone decides they're ok with dying or being at the stamina disadvantage from combo-ftp and commits fully.

In BR however, gamepad's short comings stand out even more. There's not enough buttons for me to have all my weapons available without reaching for the keyboard, my Use bind and swap weapon mode bind are bound to the same button and this worked very well for me way way back but now it's not and I have no room for more buttons. When I look at a highlighted object, my player still prefers to swap weapon mode or in today's case, use a bandage instead of picking up a highlighted weapon, climbing the horse or ladder.

I also cannot run away or matrix very well even on max settings because gamepad max sensitivity is set so low.

Chivalry had gamepad sensitivity set high enough that I never once felt at a disadvantage and it overcame limited gamepad buttons by allowing actions/binds to be set to multiple buttons at once. LB+Stab to kick, cycle up and down for multiple weapons and weapon modes, etc. Can these glaring issues be finally addressed?

Before the keyboard nerds show up to heckle, know that I've tried switching to keyboard twice and it doesn't feel right hunching over my keyboard and trying remembering all the buttons on such a long device, etc. There's a reason consoles come with gamepads instead of keyboards. One was designed for gaming another for typing. I would rather use the device made specifically for gaming.