Mordhau
 Lionheart Chevalier
  • Likes received 573
  • Date joined 19 Aug '17
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350 573

Red/white vs Gold/black would be interesting. Totally down for anything thats not red vs blue.

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Three torso stabs to kill T3 with billhook is reasonable however I definitely do not think it should get a buff against T2.

Can we increase its point cost to 4 or 5 though?

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Actually can we talk about pole-axe blunt side? Why does it have to be shorter and slower... but with faster stabs? What's the logic behind that change when its the same speed/weight... doesn't holding it by the choke make it faster actually? Not like it actually does that much more damage to T3 to justify such disadvantages.

It just makes no sense and it doesn't even two shot T3 unless you get a headshot... Two torso swings just won't cut it and for that you're better off just using the longer, faster side even against T3 for the same HTK. Blunt side is so easy to miss with and it's so short its drags require absolutely perfect execution to simply not miss let alone actually do damage. People fall for a point blank feint but easily run away from the followup attack.

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I like upper right stabs because I feel they have the most application for hooking over or around someone's parry.

I occasionally start a right underhand then morph to the upper right stab while sliding left. Sometimes Ill get a head shot if they parry too low and too right.

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Some Maximillian armors looked like sculpted steel faces... complete with mustaches, eyebrows or demon horns.

Cuman style helmets would totally be appropriate for the game.

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I literally saw the exact same shit it did in Chivalry yesterday from Bang. Bang literally performed an overhead spin drag mid combo...

It may not trade anymore but it still has that perfect accel/drag combination it had in Chivalry and it still packs a huge punch against armor. It might be easily whiffed when used by T3 dude but it can still be dragged for reach and it's extremely dangerous when used by T2 and below.

It can literally start inside you then rewind back and hover just over your parry while you stand there like a retard.

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Pretty sure this game is already 99% about timing and then spazzing through whatever means possible to surprise your opponent when an accel comes or trick them into thinking youre accelerating.

Every other mechanic added is just rock paper scissors.

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The current largest map, with a castle, forest and village, "TestGrad64" often strains my 8gb ram laptop of two years but only when I'm in the forest side and it's full of players/horses running wild.

I play on the lowest quality visual settings for the most part. I imagine the game will be optimized to run more smoothly as updates come and the game releases. Contraband, for example, used to give my laptop a very hard time but the map runs very smoothly for me now.

So I would say a garbage pc will have a garbage time on the 64p maps but anything better will do fine.

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Cumans's helmet would be cool to add and definitely fits the time frame.

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No one is advocating for reverse hits or removal of turn cap.

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At 90-120 ping shields worked just fine for me in patch 14, where they were accurate to shield model.

Note: there's a huge difference between inconsistency and the inability to read oncoming attacks. I don't mis-read an underhand ass-drag and call my failure to aim my block a shield inconsistency much like I don't call my failure to read a hard delay drag a parry inconsistency.

I'll allow that blocking certain waterfalls back in 14 were inconsistent because it would go right through the center of the block even when you read the attack correctly. However this could have been fixed with tweaks to blocking overheads at specific angles as opposed to giving up and making shields impenetrable.

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I want fights that look like fights.

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  • Masking attacks isn't so bad, it's just strategy... However these are currently so effective because of poor animation quality as opposed to the attackers skill. At the end of the day, masked underhands are simply a rehearsed and formulaic button combination. It's no coincidence that the players who rely on these moves also rely on binds to perform them. The solution to obnoxious underhand attacks is simply better animations that make underhands easier to differentiate.

  • Jump drags give no warning if performed correctly... the attack starts as accel then the jump turns it into drag right before making contact... otherwise it would be a properly read accel. Unless at 0 ping I don't think that's something you can wait out to read unless you thought it was a feint/drag anyways and you would have eaten the hit if it really was an accel. At the end of the day this is just another rehearsed and formulaic combination of buttons and it's effectiveness is determined by practice and reading it is rather gambly.

If jumping in combat needs to be balanced and how are beyond me but I know all this emergent cheese are just symptoms of a timing based combat and a playerbase whose bored of it. Afterall if parry was tighter would people ever spin for any reason? Not in comp. Jumping puts your attack off screen but if successfully blocked it puts your opponent's riposte below you and you may not see where you need to parry in time or may eat a leg hit while your parry is too high. Would you look down to force accels and mask underhands all the time if it meant you could not reliably read and parry incoming accelerated head or side ripostes?

So are we getting a tighter parry box or what?

Even Chivalry's massive parry box was easier to hook around and team play didn't break. Why are swords that go backwards in slow-motion preferred to swords that side hit or waterfall... I promise you no knight ever used slow motion sword style to outlast his opponents pathetic parry... but I bet they used wrong side hits, accelerated most swings and did their best to trick an opponent to block the wrong way. Hell why is parry timed at all and not held like a shield?

I don't expect a held parry but a tighter parry is long overdue and this goes for shields as well.

  • All these ugly styles are becoming a thing namely because people want to play a different manner than what the game is forcing. I think the spins, jumps, and masked attacks should all be options but right now they are emerging for all the wrong reasons.

Some say tighter parry would break team play but I think team play is already broken. Everyone lunging around, running in between the smaller fights, God I hate lunge and how easy it is to disengage mid combat or turn and run from a feint, even in T3. I like unflinchable riposte but I think it gives too much hyper armor. Anyways, if tighter parry really breaks teamplay then maybe team play needs to be looked at and redone before the game releases... Maybe team play, lunge, and turning-away-to-run speed should be balanced around tighter parry.

Thankyou for listening to yet another one of my rants.

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@Shovonem said:
Jumping attacks feels terrible to watch. I don't want to see jumping twirling in Mordhau like I did in Chiv. I used to use jump very frequently back in Chiv but I am hoping to have a different experience in Mordhau. Maybe make the parry box so attacks from top are easier to parry. It's unfun and unnecessary. I don't know why side hits get nerfed yet jumping attacks get promoted.

Amen.

Jump stabs should be an option. But it should be a simple as looking up and parrying to block these obvious attacks... not sure why they go through my parry despite reading them correctly. The irony is that you can practically hit someones kidneys in a side attack but they still get the parry. Pretty sure Rapier, AS and Estoc are the only things I see getting side hits in duels.

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@StudioKimchi said:
Why not simply increase the stamina cost of blocking melee attacks after the parry window amount of seconds? I agree that the purpose of shields are primarily as a counter to ranged fire and as a defensive measure in chaotic massed melee.

In fact, don't we kind of want players to have to hold up shield while being shot at? This occludes vision allowing melee attackers to be harder to notice.

Your second point is something I would actually consider in favor of making shield parry size accurate to shield models.

Accurate shield models forces shield users to be accurate to where they block as opposed to when but if they only turtle then they have a harder time seeing where enemies attack since the shield obscures the view.

Let's make block/parry angles accurate to shield models instead of adding more arbitrary stamina nerfs.

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Klapvisor may expose the neck but no single T3 exposes the face. Visorless T2 barbute exposes even less skin than klapvisor but it's obviously T2 because of the exposed eye, nose and mouth which invites an attacker to stab. The main difference between T3 and T2 is stab weakness and this plays out in chainmail torso being weak to stabs while helmets with open faces are also weak to stabs.

I never look at a T3 klapvisor and say "Stabbing is it's obvious weakness" but I'll look at a T2 Barbute and a Bevor, Raised Sallet and see that it's obviously weak to stabs despite being almost completely encased with steal. I would actually argue that T2 visorless barbute is more easily confused for T3 than bevor raised sallet... and Visorless barbute made it into the game.

Exposed face = Tier 2

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Players can already run away from feints, morphs and even some ripostes with full certainty they won't get hit even in T3. I rarely feint anymore unless my opponent is trapped or I have a very long weapon.

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I didn't name players because I didn't want any one to feel attacked for their strategies... Afterall this game is forcing the meta to be morphing/feinting or accel/decel and I'm not at all surprised people try their hardest to find new options though such deviations look rather ugly.

Yes, Nal, the second part of my first post was about something you use alot and yes Frog, my underhand post is about you and Herb's reliance on underhands but these are tactics I'm seeing alot of people starting to experiment with. Good or bad I'm simply letting everyone know that these are becoming a thing. Though, I do think the underhands specifically need to be more readable in general.

Another annoying thing I forgot to mention along with spins and invisible underhands are jumps. Jump overhead drags, jump stabs, jump underhand accels, jump morphs, etc. I'm all for making parry smaller to encourage more directional play... but jump slashes/stabs often go through my center-screen-parry despite reading and responding to their attack... You can argue that this is punished by stamina but that's only if you parry successfully and I'm not sure why I fail to parry when its in the center of my screen...maybe it's my ping? Also players who use this often have the acrobat perk. Another is jumping while starting an accel attack then morphing offscreen so they don't see it coming.

I suppose you can call all of this "emergent gameplay," where players invent new unforeseen tactics much like the reverses in Chivalry.


I think this game tries too hard to force a specific style revolving around morph/feint or accel/decel and I consider these emerging tactics to simply be attempts to break up the monotony of the current (and boring) meta. Maybe these specific tactics need to be nerfed or balanced whatever but I think the game really needs to explore new options instead of continuing to force the current meta.

As Nal himself pointed out, he trains and rehearses those weird maneuvers out of boredom.

In all honesty I think a slightly tighter left/right parry and shorter lunge would be solutions but maybe people on this thread have other suggestions..?

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Also, I've never noticed this before but underhand slashes have become absolutely obnoxious this patch. Impossible to see coming and alot of players who use binds capitalize on this by using them while contorting their body to mask the windup until release, where they then turn to put their attack inside you.

This is the new insta-hit tactic and ofcourse, once introduced during a duel they can then morph/feint from these last-second-reveal attacks.

It's quite an underhanded strategy ;)