Mordhau
 Lionheart Chevalier
  • Likes received 1909
  • Date joined 19 Aug '17
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1240 1909

I think flinch on team damage is necessary to prevent hitting allies to work as feints... since both your players lose initiative... it would take a third person to reap the benefits of mongoloid team spamming against an out numbered foe.

"How would that feel any better" It wouldn't. If they troll with a full sized weapon, call them out and kick them. If they troll with a quarter staff, kill them with your actual weapon. Full team damage should be a thing if the swing-through feature goes... and so should team flinching.

If people horse flinch then kill them. I think it's far worse that someone gets flinched by a horse while about to land a hit... while the ally doesn't get flinched by the horse and delivers a hit while winding up on the blindside created by a horse. Both players should be flinched and that horseman needs to watch for team mates.

An auto kick feature would be appropriate too.

1240 1909

If hit stop on friendly returns, I really think flinch should be applied and/or full damage to team swings.

1240 1909

The physics of each 1pt weapon blade is pretty straight forward and simple.

Cleaver should be fast and good at slashing so it will rip apart naked and lightly armored people in 2 or 3 slashes that are hard to read. Maybe even one slash on a naked head or 2 slashes on T2 head. But it's shitty handle should make it expensive to parry with and it should be difficult to use against armor.

Dagger requires extreme accuracy and thus, good aim and talent to land hits with... but it's fine point should puncture armor in 3 stabs that could be easily chambered/dodged... But it still doesn't one shot someone with a hat like cleaver does. It's shitty handle should also make it expensive to parry with. And because it requires high accuracy with the shortest range, it will have a hard time landing hits on light load outs.

While short sword should be the middle ground of the two, that can slash at light armor and stab at heavy armor for one more HTK than the other two. It should have the best stamina negation of the 1 pointers since it is a proper sword, has the most weight and the best grip/leverage.

I almost never see dagger/shortswords currently anyways :/ people would much rather play fists or, more likely, grab cleaver to decapitate 3 knights at once. Weapon balance decisions in this game hurt my soul.

1240 1909

The comparison between dagger ttk and cleaver ttk triggered me.

Dagger is "powerful" in a duel or when youre already weakened AND your opponent has the talent to wield it. I'm decent, but when I am winning a duel and switch to dagger to finish off an opponent, I often start losing that duel.

Cleaver requires no talent.

It takes one button to chamber a dagger stab and the slash from a morph will prolly miss because its too fast and short AND it only does like 6 damage to armor. Dagger cannot fight 2 or 3 people at once and when it does it takes alot of time to kill those people... you can only hit one person at a time with dagger and you'll get gambled. It's not fast or long enough to punish 2h gambles reliably.

Cleaver will win any kind of gamble match because, though short, its slow enough to drag for reach and it has a wide turncap that lets its slash wrap around or behind parries and hit multiple people at once... and because its crazy fast and 3htk across the board.

You cannot count on matrixing/sidestepping a cleaver's slash because of it's speed and turncap... while you can EASILY, often accidentally, matrix/side step a dagger stab.

Dagger is a 1pt or below weapon, only redeemable by the fact that it can really fuck up a trapped person or someone you snuck up on and it can be thrown well. While current cleaver is a 2 or 3 point weapon and is practically a Handaxe skin. It fucks people up and there's a reason no one uses dagger bloodlust builds... even a fist bloodlust build would be points better spent than dagger bloodlust builds.

1240 1909

@Quenquentthebabysitter said:

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
When your nerf-cleaver-damage-thread becomes a debate about total-game-armor-realism that will endlessly spiral into increasingly toxic circle jerks that only end when someone forgets to reply.

It was still civil here, but yeah we derailed.

Some here are against the idea of slowing down the weapon, but generally that thing is so fast, if you get hit once you won't have the time to parry the next attack. And considering how it takes 3 hits to kill Tier 3... Well you can reduce that to two. Slowing it down a bit wouldn't cause its drag to be strong since there's no point in dragging this weapon in the first place.

So, in my opinion, not only the overall damage should be reduced, but the speed too.

Sorry for the essay but please read all of it... Please It's a high IQ rant.

They nerfed the cleaver speed a patch or two ago and it actually buffed the weapon. People drag with cleaver, both to circumvent parry and to drag it out for reach AND to flank and hit behind parries/shields... Nerfing speed again won't make it sluggish, it will just make it more like Handaxe or Falchion...

If you nerf speed you must nerf turn cap to prevent it from being a massive buff... but then it will still drag around parries... just be less amazing at killing 2 or 3 people at once...

Making it faster would actually be the big brain way of nerfing it, since it would miss more, stam out more, have less drag and reach AND if it's damage is brought down, who cares if it gets a free hit or two... If it can only fuck up light armor... and if it stays where it is or is made faster, than light armor players would dance around cleaver with ease... but get one or two shot when they fuck up. Currently you can come at a cleaver in armor and a longsword and be outranged by cleaver because it can drag for reach, especially in light armor.

Making a fast weapon slower simply gives it more options. Messer was broken in Chivalry because it was slower than longsword... so it could drag with no effort but it was still fast enough to accel and gamble trade hit... And do the 360 reverse drag that a longsword would have had a hard time doing (because longsword was too fast) for less damage anyways. Messer's speed "nerf" also gave it more range than the longsword in Chivalry because it could drag more for range. Messer stab was also just as good as a longsword's since HTK was still 2 on light builds and the "slow" messer stab just made it better at side hitting parries. I think HTK with surprise messer stabs was still just as good as longsword against a knight lol so long as you threw one swing in.

There's a reason you don't see nearly as many bloodlust builds built on dagger or even arming sword when a cleaver has more options and damage output than both... even if it can't stab or morph. I don't think Crush understands how these number stats play together to make his weapons cheesy... otherwise weapon balance would be far superior.

Earlier Mordhau's Longsword got a speed "buff" but I found it actually nerfed longsword at dueling (since it can't do the very high IQ drags) while making it really good at spam swinging in 1vX... shouldn't longsword be good at dueling but meh at spamming multiple fully armor knights? Longsword now kinda plays like messer or war axe where you can just spam slashes for free hits in a crowd... and it's 3htk across the board.

Meanwhile cleaver will always be fast enough to surprise you, but it's speed nerf now gave it more options... You would have to make cleaver rediculously slow to make it unable to get free combo hits... even Bastard sword gets free combo hits.

1240 1909

When your nerf-cleaver-damage-thread becomes a debate about total-game-armor-realism that will endlessly spiral into increasingly toxic circle jerks that only end when someone forgets to reply.

Cleaver should take 5htk on plate to make everyone, even cleaver apes, happy... erm.. or at least make all of us equally miserable with each other.

1240 1909

The trolling is already there. Just hit them back and/or votekick. If they troll with a quarter staff for flinch hit them back with your actual sword for full damage.

Maybe it's extreme but I would rather the game be a bit too hardcore than too dumbed down. Especially in group fights.

1240 1909

To be honest, I don't think team damage should be reduced at all except by perk.

Not like getting hit by team mates in a light build wasn't already a death sentence anyways. People with high team damage should get kicked and will learn to play better.

I also think attacks should be flinched by team mate's swings.

1240 1909

There's already rectal parries.

I've never seen more anal parries in the game than in this patch.

If rectal parries are fixed then a buffed active parry for shields wouldn't be so bad, especially when one handers are easily flanked and out ranged anyways.

It would just mean they are less likely to be instantly banished by executioner gambles or trades in Frontline... They would get mindlessly swatted away still, but not as fast.

1240 1909

Active parry buff please.

1240 1909

As a shield user.

I couldn't disagree more with all 3 of your points.

I think shield needs to have the same parry window as a regular parry. Because it now parries and such things should be the same across the board. Shields should not be noob crutches, but tools for players of all levels. You don't learn about drags by being hardened against them... and have you seen high level duels with Bastard sword?

God they're so disgusting, I could only imagine how much cancerous it would be with Bastard sword, medium armor, second wind and a shield that even slightly buffers drags. Look up Stouty's last tournament upload for total body cancer.

I think shields should have better stam negation than a one hander alone and should be equal or almost equal to a two handers stam negation. A shield has to be worth the points after all.

I also think shields need a better active parry or whatever. The latest gimick they added is lack luster and rarely seems to work. It feel like a surprise when it does. If it stays it should work on more than just ripostes but on combos and maybe on all attacks too.

1240 1909

I think damage will forever be the problem with cleaver. It's a kitchen knife that 3 shots T3 torso with no weight or leverage. I can't even rationalize it 3 shotting anything but light armor. A dagger's thin, long stab could at least go for the gaps of T3 torso, but what could a slash weapon possibly do to those gaps without the weight of a messer's blade or the leverage of a two handed axe?

If cleaver gets a speed buff it would just be better at dragging and get longer reach as a result, be even better at 1vX, still be 3htk against armor... and it will still be able to accel, like any other weapon in the game. A speed nerf would ultimately be a buff and it will be even better for bloodlust builds.

Cleaver is a small weapon, a kitchen knife... it should be fast. It should bounce right off armor though. 5htk would be a very generous compromise between intelligent life forms and the monkeys who crutch on cleaver.

1240 1909

Patchie when

1240 1909

Do shields even have active parry? I'm getting trade hit like a mother fucker.

Shields should have been given an extended active parry instead of this gimmicky "buff" they were given.

Attacks rarely hit the shield in 1vX, and that provision is not really worth the points on a heater shield. And the idea that I would spend 3 points on kite and handicap myself with a one hander and obscured vision... just to get traded a few less times is absurd... when the same points spent on Great sword or longsword with perks/armor is far better spent on doing real damage, with real range and similar speed.

2handers aren't actually slower than one handers. Speed = distance/time and two handers give alot more distance in similar time.

The new gimmick only works on ripostes too... which is strange considering it's not really active parry and should work on combos and maybe even regular attacks, not that it matters since it rarely catches things anyways.

I'm getting hella assists for smacking 3-4 people at a time but not many kills since I'm inevitably traded to death by people with superior range,speed and damage... and by my own team mates since I have to face hug the enemy.

Please give shields a serious 1vX buff... or a point cost decrease. If devs love the new quirk then they should allow it to work on all attacks and combos, not just ripostes.

ALSO using shield alt mode and archers are shooting my feet :( I think the riposte at any time function is really cool... but the alt mode is lacking if archers can just shoot around it while I'm stuck in a doorway or chokepoint. The irony.

1240 1909

I actually prefer 1vX with the new experimental swing-through-allies change. No misparries because some idiot body blocked an attack while winding up his own.

But it can be a huge pain when your team mates try to slash through you and can look bad. It's also pretty cheesy when someone uses their team mate to hide their attackand it stabs through them into you.

I would be content with no hit stop on allies staying but I know alot of people dislike it for the obvious reasons.

IF HIT STOP RETURNS I think it should cause flinch on both allies so that they lose initiative altogether and it would be rarer for accidentally hitting team mates to act as a feint. This way 1vX isn't so painful and spammers have hit stop and flinch their team mates who might otherwise have benefited from a hit stopped attack acting as a feint.

1240 1909

Also, I've had a problem the last two patches where I'll be walking and it will suddenly be like I walked into a wall, cant move forward and moving left/right won't lemme past the invisible barrier. A second later it will go away and I can walk past. Sometimes it will appear and reappear over and over again almost like rubber band lag BUT

This isn't rubber band lag, it just won't let me walk or sprint past this invisible barrier. decent ping and I can input everything else fine, which wouldn't happen in actual lag. Never happens when I'm on horse, only on foot.

1240 1909

The kitchen knife should do 20 damage to T3 torso. And that is pretty generous considering it is literally a kitchen knife.

It should still two shot light armor, T2 helmet and maybe one shot naked head.

This way it has a role as the one point weapon to fight naked/light armor that's the hardest to read and can do crazy drags... while the dagger has the role of damaging armor best while being the most predictable, shortest and easiest to counter... and short sword being the middle ground between them.

Cleaver should not be the weapon everyone grabs to fight 3 people at once with full perks and armor. Cleaver should not be the preferred bloodlust weapon after war axe. A kitchen knife should not do more damage to armor than a much heavier bastard sword or arming sword.

1240 1909

Longbow should be 4htk T3 torso.

1240 1909

The devs failed to mention they added a hand gun, called the 1411, which is prolly a typo, meant to be the 1911.

I have no screenshots but its a hand gun that looks like a poorly imitated colt 1911, a dev was playing with it in a public server today, kinda funny. You can parry its bullets I heard some people saying in chat.

1240 1909

I just wanna jerk off while beating women in Mordhau...

Is that too much to ask?