Mordhau
 Kobilic
Knight
  • Likes received 54
  • Date joined 2 Aug '17
  • Last seen 20 Nov

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Knight 54 54
  • 1
  • 14 Oct
 Kobilic

Addressing your first points:
1: Punching is not slow. Well not when you remember the mordhau characters are all about 7 feet tall. (don't quote me on that i think it's 6.5 or something but you get the idea, it's clearly heavy weight and most heavy weights aren't mike tyson: especially not in medieval times when technique for boxing wasn't as well mastered. So the speed isn't thattt slow but it is surely on the slower side.
Short answer: because it would not be enough of a disadvantage in combat to get disarmed if it were any faster which makes stam draining less of a thing... which removes a whole mastery element of the game. If you get disarmed and your punch speed were any faster you could strike down the player that disarmed you and kill him before he could combo from a disarm into a punish strike. On that note i do think boxing could be greatly improved with a higher speed in this game, but unfortunately it would mess with the balance of combat too much in a bad way. Hope this explains.

2: It does, but torso and helm more so than legs as they are more commonly targets that result in 1 or 2 hit kills. It might not feel like it does with the player chase mechanic. However keep in-mind the chase mechanic was put into the game to prevent entire teams running away and kite fighting or players regening in duels. This would make the fighting very difficult from the other teams perspective unless they chose the exact same loadout and approach to melee fighting.
There is another twist and that is that simply running backwards makes your player move at a slower pace.
Yeah i know this is a huge thing that wasn't explained in the training tutorial, so I think the fact this confused you as a player and made you actually think that light armour doesn't give enough of a bonus to make a difference is good feedback. The ability to understand the most important mechanics in this game currently has to come from going through release updates: which anyone who isn't a nerd for this genre wouldn't bother reading. Perhaps a way for new players to figure this stuff out officially without going through old patch updates might be a good solution: however considering the amount of official steam guides, youtube guides, and how helpful SOME of the community is towards new players: i'd say it's not a pressing issue. However one can't deny the advantage of how much you learn for the same hours spent when being a part of a community. So my advice: join a clan and ask them about things that piss you off so they can explain how to take advantage of that armour/weapons benefits, or how to expose the other players weaknesses in their armour/weapons of choice.

3: Probably the most concerning point and the main reason I think you need to considering upgrading your PC if you want to have fun playing any competitive game. IMO To truly enjoy mordhau you have to run at 85 frames minimum and below 70 ping consistently.
Don't ask me why but below 85 frames makes the animations feel far too mechanical and the motions far too rigid.
At 85+ everything is allot smoother and easier to understand by the eye. But be warned if your system can't average 85 frames + you will have a worse time with these settings. Having latency is even more important. If you get a pro with over 100 latency and an average player with 30 ping, the average player will win almost every fight. However if both were on 30 you can only guess what would happen. So yeah ping is crucial to perform, Hertz is a huge advantage like peds (if ped's were legal).

4: Because at that range the spear wielder would be forced to grapple. I can assure you most would not use longer weapons if they had to switch to shorter weapons up close.... It wouldn't just effect spears, it would effect every long weapon in the game. Which happen to be the most popular weapons. So majority of the community would not be happy that their favourite big weapons are no longer viable at close range.

So seeing as implementing a grappling/hand to hand attack system at that range would require allot of man hours and ridiculous amount of balancing to incorporate into a game that's already released without this element of combat in the core system: i think it's safe to say mordhau did the sensible thing in not restricting minimum range for attacks.
Triternion did not add a system like this but instead gave spear users the ability to strike change grip to be more effective at that range. So at-least they did take in consideration how people actually used longer weapons at short distances and although this isn't simulation x 1000 it's a huge step in the right direction for combat in video games as a whole : one I'm very proud to be a part of as an early backer and soon to be content creator.
I respect their choice in this as most players think they want "realism" ... but once you see how dirty, grim and brutal medieval fighting is up close :you will quickly realise why most games prefer to depict it as clean cut, theatrical sword play.

You will notice that it's allot easier to miss stabs up close than slashes, and also that slashes are generally slower than stabs. So you can see why over-all longer/slower weapons are at a disadvantage up close against faster/shorter weapons.

5: If you could brace against a horse you can brace against a player. But lets assume the brace wouldn't work against the player to keep things balanced. It would look stupid. players walking through braced weapons. So yeah there's no logical way to have braces against cav without creating problems on the infantry front that kills some immersion. Considering horses got re-worked and can now be killed from melee allot easier, i think it's a step in the right direction.
If you struggle against horse, know that a spear wielder who aims at the horses chest/head can kill the horse before the riders spear collides with them: Thus dismounting the horseman which many times kills him from the impact.

Your suggestion on making a single weapon specifically designed to killing horseman is interesting though. Adding a pike could be the solution to this IMO. Something longer than spear with the same damage, but slower than the spear, with no slash attack. Perhaps this would create to much headache for designers though as currently everything is balanced around spear being longest.
Keep in mind that team-work currently destroys horses pretty quickly. All you need is a few focused archers, or a nice square of short spears/ spears to get bait them into a narrow path.

6: They do, but they have to actually collide with the model don't they? Would look silly if my horses hoof could trigger a bear trap from 2 metres away wouldn't it?
Currently ballistas are a great way to insta kill horses. Any engineer can build them. So this comes back to my last point which is team-work. Join a clan and you will experience a side of mordhau you and your inexperienced friend couldn't before....

7: Nice feedback on objectives. Yeah carts can be difficult games when your with a bad attacking team. To better understand why the spawn on taiga gets shorter the more you push them, you have to understand risk/reward relationship. The higher the risk the greater the reward.
The more you have to lose by dying the more intense it will feel. The more progress team blue makes pushing mine cart the harder it is to keep pushing it. This makes it seem more intense the further the cart moves forward because each player from the blue team risks more lost ground by dying the further they push the cart. The defending team has more to lose from each player they DONT kill pushing the cart. So it builds up intensity on both sides. I do agree that balance is something that isn't often perfectly equal...
You must of been the attacking team here. I wonder if you read chat to see if anyone was suggesting tactics, or if you typed in chat to try get team mates to re-group for a big push? Little things like that make a bigger difference in the balance of power for objective maps than the balance themselves. However I do agree that this needs to be considered for future maps, and i'm sure the Level designers are aware of this as they do read feedback and genuinely want to make their next maps better than their last.

Addressing your suggestions:
I think point 1 is really cool. But the HP regen system makes this hard. Also believe it or not but the flow of damage from each weapon is very different. Faster weapons are easier to manipulate acceleration times to make multiple hits land around a block... which makes them able to have a higher potential cluster of landed hits close together. Slower weapons are easier to manipulate release times thus making them easier to land consistently from the higher chance of landing a drag.

Reducing player movement speed after taking damage also reduces the amount of potential hits that player can land against opponents, as landing hits against opponents is based on how many times you have the range when he hasn't already gone into windup or release.
So I suspect this would make both players die faster once they are wounded.
It's a good idea to raise skill floors and also make the power of one warrior more pronounced. However this would make the game far harder for people like you who just come into the game and are expected to fight against more seasoned players. Especially in duels were you would constantly have others use their footwork to reduce your chance of victory to practically 0.

I think that's a really interesting idea though and have considered it myself for pve development. Good suggestion but I fear designing competitive combat is far more difficult then you probably think. Even if player speed was reduced by a percentage and capped at a low enough percentage to make wounding feel like it made an impact on the opponents legs: it would still make certain fast load-outs with long weapons: able to kite attack with far less risk against many builds. Once they wound the opponent: the opponents chance of survival would be far lower than it currently is.

This is the kind of stuff developers want to avoid as ideally every loadout option is "viable" just not optimal. I don't think players would like their chance of dying being increased a tenfold after taking the first hit. Currently one strong stand out feature of mordhau duelling is the unpredictability of duels and the fact that even a player on 1hp or 1 stamina still has a reasonable chance to win against his opponent if they have the right skill or circumstances. This keeps the chance of unpredictable outcomes higher than most other games and contributes to fights feeling more like fights. Because it's not about only reaching a certain level of advantage through trained knowledge and reflex it's about balancing that throughout a whole fight.

Knight 54 54
  • 8 Sep
 Kobilic

@ToLazy4Name said:
If you win who fucking cares

More and more players each year play video games for social interactions. So I'm not surprised to hear that so many people seek validation from complete strangers. Me on the other-hand: I like to immerse myself in a video game. I also like to be in control of my own life. I would sooner kill myself than allow a stranger to dictate the choices I have a right to make myself. When I'm standing on the battlefield and my enemy stands before me, the only thing on my mind is how I will set upon the task of dispatching him and sending his sorry ass to the afterlife. As far as I'm concerned the only thing that matters in the sands of an arena is victory.

Knight 54 54
 Kobilic

OP I agree with your comment on flinch. Perhaps triternion have done this to try increase horde numbers as far less players are playing horde. I would personally like to see difficulties to horde like the horde in chivalry had. My idea would be to keep current settings for easy mode, add flinch to players on medium, and add flinch to players while disabling flinch on enemies on hard mode would be ideal. While we are on this topic an extra 10 waves for the new horde maps along with these difficulties would go a long way and would be super easy to implement. I would have already implemented this myself were it possible with the current community made techniques for map making.

Wouldn't be hard for Triternion to add though, so i hope if Marko see's this he can take it into consideration :)

Knight 54 54
 Kobilic

@ToLazy4Name said:
You do realize you've admitted to breaking one of the game's official server rules, right? I didn't mention you kicking that guy because it offended me, I mentioned it because you're an idiot.

Now although you are correct about the server rules, the OP did not specify if he was playing on his own server or an official.
So don't assume you know when you don't have that evidence on hand. Furthermore even if it was on an official server, these forums don't need justice warriors. Justice warriors don't help make games better, nor do they ever make a difference in the long run. Testers and players who spend time to give quality feedback like the OP are the ones who improve the game. So please try have some empathy and be more considerate of the fact that your comments were not necessary. Unless you want to talk about changes to horde mode your just filling this thread with negative energy that contributes towards killing this community and making it over-all more toxic. Not a healthy representation of the kind of passionate people that invest in this game and make this forum an awesome place to connect with others.

Knight 54 54
  • 7 Sep
 Kobilic

Fifth month average active daily users of Chivalry after release: 1,523.4

Fifth month average active daily users of Mordhau after release: 4,200.0

We know that Mordhau shipped one million copies shortly after release as appose to torn banner who took a few months... so we can conclude that Mordhau is showing a higher percentage of retention so far based on those numbers 5 months in. I can safely say that Mordhau has superior active numbers and superior peak numbers so far.

I don't remember anyone saying that chivalry died 5 months after release. So I'm a bit disappointed people are exaggerating these numbers for Mordhau. The community has a right to be worried, but I'm personally pretty confident that steam sales, future content/updates and free weekends will keep it going. Add modding support to the equation and we could very well see another dayz pattern follow. It's certainly has a core system capable of supporting first class mod projects. So I'm feeling very optimistic about it's future and plan to sacrifice much of my time to create more content. Unless the devs abandon this project I can't see why most people who own a copy won't support the next big mod or triternion title that follows.

Knight 54 54
  • 27 May
 Kobilic

@--Locke said:
There should be a teaser showing picture-in-picture playing keyboard live and how it affects the lute ingame. Otherwise it doesn't look so impressive, especially for someone who doesn't know the game (and LuteBot) yet and spots the video by accident and don't get what's the big deal about that. (people tend to skip descriptions)

This should pull more real bards to Mordhau.

There is one currently in the works show casing exactly that. I agree with you.

Knight 54 54
  • 23 Apr
 Kobilic

@Snake Skin said:
Here lie two examples showing how the bots dont know what verticality is. It is painful to see how a bot that is smart enough to dodge and duck not know that they can reach their foe simply by jumping or taking the steps down and engage in horizontal combat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjqw2jpdars
https://youtu.be/hBgt1WvwKLA?t=12
Furthermore I've noticed they dont how to climb ladders, in the Taiga map specifically they neither know how to walk around or vault over tree stumps (which hilariously sometimes causes them to stay still in front of them) and refuse to cross the big two wood logs serving as a bridge there. I cant tell if the latter is intentional but I'd still like to know if it's intended to change it in the future.

My theory to why they haven't implemented the ladder climbing is that they would need to also script bots for fighting from ladders and it's a pretty complicated combat encounter to script in a behaviour tree (or at-least I see it that way given ground combat is already a challenge to do well yet simple). I also wonder if they will add that. While we are on this topic I hope Triternion has kept the old blueprints for the Hardcore parry and old version of Seymour backed up somewhere. Would be nice to get a copy of all behaviour trees when SDK launches.

Knight 54 54
  • 18 Apr
 Kobilic

Hurrah! do we get to test release patch before official release?
or will it be as exciting for us as for the new mercenaries?

Knight 54 54
  • 1
  • 18 Apr
 Kobilic

@Christian2222 said:

@Maci said:
Impossible due to networking
sorry

I've seen a lot of people say something was """impossible"" that someone ends up doing a year later or less. (I've even see them say something was impossible that has already been done)

Don't listen to these ''impossible'' nerds who don't know what they are talking about 90% of the time.

If people are truly passionate about innovating and pushing the boundaries of what we think possible: they won't be discouraged by a persons opinion. Hell that will just motivate those who are passionate enough to have a plan, to work harder to execute it. I can see why he might think it's impossible though as the task is so enormously difficult and expensive it may as well be for all but those who have tremendous talent and wealth at their disposal.

Knight 54 54
  • 1
  • 18 Apr
 Kobilic

@Huggles said:

@Milosh_Obilic said:

@Runagate said:
Someone will make a mod for that tbh

Who on earth would want to make a mod for that? You must be dreaming if you think someone is willing to pay for costs associated with an MMO mod.
At it's core it is a bad business decision from the mod creators perspective: because you have no guaranteed capital, crowd funding or early access to project player base on release(it is a mod after-all). You would have to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars just for a server system alone.

You can't ask players for any money to pay for their server costs because it's a mod. Basically you have to pray and hope donators would pay for however much it would cost each month + development fees + the time you spent working on it. So your spending years to build something that has a high chance to turn out to be the biggest money sink you ever take part in (it would probably take more than 10 years unless you had multiple departments led by senior veterans in the industry that worked full time crunching through that content daily).

Absolutely zero chance you would be able to even build a team out of the community for something so difficult. You would literally need to fund most of the devs and all the servers yourself which combines to easily be over a few million dollars if you want to match the content and features of what people expect in an MMO these days. I don't know any mortal man stupid enough to do that for such a high risk/high cost endeavour.

It's already been done.

Persistent World for Warband

First of all that is a persistent world not an MMO. But hey for argument sake lets say that a persistent world that can hold a maximum of 200 players in one server is an MMO (which I think most would disagree with based on the consumers expectations of what something needs to be to be truly considered mass multiplayer online). This whole thread is on how hard it would be to make it with Mordhau's combat mechanics. For this reason your example is not relevant. Unlike warband, which is an old outdated and horribly animated game compared to today's expectations (although still great in it's own right for what it is) , Mordhau actually uses much more complicated animation blending systems and Real time tracers. This stuff is pretty expensive when you have 20 people fighting on screen at the same time compared to a combat system like Warband let alone 200+. Warband was an extremely cheap persistant world mod because they only had to fund one server and it only needed to have 200 players. An MMORPG with Mordhau's combat system would need to find a far smarter way of instancing areas like world of warcraft started doing years ago to make even close to 200 players being able to play together in the one persistent world, however that would require instancing which technically makes each server have a fair bit less than 200 players in it. So technically it would not be an MMORPG unless it had a networking solution that could go around this problem. However that requires many smaller instances of maps that get streamed from a server running many smaller instances. I believe ashes of creation are doing something similar by finding a third party that can take care of that for them so that new levels that are streamed by players in the one server can be done so seamlessly (or at least that's my impression on interviews). So ultimately what I'm saying is that Mordhau combat is a whole different ball game that would face far larger challenges no matter what engine you decided to attempt this in.

Knight 54 54
  • 8 Apr
 Kobilic

@Maci said:
Impossible due to networking
sorry

Not true at all, It would be possible but it would require a complex server system and networking solution to make it work. If you are one of those people who think that unreal engine is not fit for this than clearly you have never heard of games like Mortal online that used the unreal engine 3 and than later integrated to unreal engine 4 with custom server/networking solutions from a third party.

Currently there is a company called intrepid studios that is creating an MMORPG using ue4 and it is expected to be one of the biggest and best MMORPG's to be released that's currently in development besides star citizen. Of-course mordhau's real-time combat tracers and all the other expenses that aren't exactly cheap to run with larger numbers of players would make it have certain limitations: for instance: you could only have so many people on screen at any given time and developers would need to use clever instancing to make the player feel like they were in a larger world. If the funding was there it would be absolutely possible but it would require a tremendous amount of work and money to pull off like any MMO. Considering most MMO's have players doing allot of questing alone or in small parties and instance things like battlegrounds or arenas I don't see why this wouldn't be worth the trade off of less players on screen at any time. Of-course accessibility would be a big hurdle after financial matters are taken care of, so I'm not saying it's in anyway an easy job or task from any angle, simply that with enough money to pay for talented devs it is surely possible.

Knight 54 54
 Kobilic

@Runagate said:
Someone will make a mod for that tbh

Who on earth would want to make a mod for that? You must be dreaming if you think someone is willing to pay for costs associated with an MMO mod.
At it's core it is a bad business decision from the mod creators perspective: because you have no guaranteed capital, crowd funding or early access to project player base on release(it is a mod after-all). You would have to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars just for a server system alone.

You can't ask players for any money to pay for their server costs because it's a mod. Basically you have to pray and hope donators would pay for however much it would cost each month + development fees + the time you spent working on it. So your spending years to build something that has a high chance to turn out to be the biggest money sink you ever take part in (it would probably take more than 10 years unless you had multiple departments led by senior veterans in the industry that worked full time crunching through that content daily).

Absolutely zero chance you would be able to even build a team out of the community for something so difficult. You would literally need to fund most of the devs and all the servers yourself which combines to easily be over a few million dollars if you want to match the content and features of what people expect in an MMO these days. I don't know any mortal man stupid enough to do that for such a high risk/high cost endeavour.

Knight 54 54
  • 5 Apr
 Kobilic

@AngelEyes said:
There’s no evidence for those people being in the majority Milosh, they might be the loudest? The moist tryhards might only seem in the majority, but that’s to be expected given we’re playing a closed crowdfunded test to the successor of an already niche game/genre.

Mordhau is about as realistic as CoD. We’ve known this since Marox made the first devblog, anyone still talking about it is 3 years late.

I never did say they were in the majority only that there are enough of them to have a bad idea met by 2 neutral and 1 positive comments a pretty good and uncommon outcome one should be happy with: not upset about. Aye there's truth in what you say.

Knight 54 54
 Kobilic

@Christian2222 said:
I have to give this community props for not just being about realism, I have always believed gameplay > realism. Maybe there is hope for you guys yet :) I threw in a realism idea, and it got slammed.... I'm actually proud of you guys ^-^ maybe the future of gaming will not be so bad.

Keep putting these realism kiddies in their place.... gaming was never about realism, that is just some new strange concept people are throwing out there, and failing to implement correctly. Games are supposed to be fun :)

I would consider 2 neutral and 1 positive response as an achievement considering how many people there are in these forums who actually take pleasure in upsetting and disrespecting those who think or play a game differently than the majority of players. On that note: I would argue the problem is not in a lack of players who share the vision of realism, but rather a large number of players wanting the game to narrow the range of optimal builds so that only the ones similar to their own style/build remain.

Knight 54 54
  • 23 Feb
 Kobilic

Marko did mention that if all goes well it will be an April release. Fingers crossed it goes smoothly for Triternion! Soooo pumped to play horde mode :D

Knight 54 54
 Kobilic

Thank you for the all that information Marox!
I was more curious if there are any planned major changes to the bot behaviour by SDK launch as it has changed so much already from last patch, as a future modder I want to know if we can expect more drastic changes. Also will there be any plans to make it compatible with Speed tree Beta or substance plugins ? Aka will it be compatible with any content/plugins that require 4.19 on-wards? On that note I want to personally say I am very grateful for the work you have put into the group combat. It reminds me of the node system that fat shark developed for Vermintide, where there is a limit to how many attack you at once when you are surrounded. Brilliant work on whoever did that! I thank you from the bottom of my heart Most impressive has been how much more player like the bots seem to attack now. Following them on spectator I notice they are more fluid and smooth with the attack control and seem to also use more accelerations now than before! They are convincingly player like and I feel who ever set that up used input from players themselves... I could be wrong here, but it is by far the most entertaining experience than it has ever been so far. Much love from me for the work triternion have put it in as a team. Sorry for asking so many questions, but changes to behaviour trees make me have to re-do parts of my GDD that I'm working on to get some community members here interested in joining the future project I'm preparing to pitch.

Knight 54 54
  • 2 Feb
 Kobilic

Will there be any plan to get Bots sprinting enabled/integrated as a variant behaviour tree for each Bot character. Possibly a setting you can enable/disable when creating a LOCAL game? If not, will there be changes/additions to bot behaviour trees prior to SDK launch? Very happy with the current ones, however kiting them with back-peddle + repeated stab or long ranged slash is OP 1v1. Pretty well optimised for horde mode though. A sub-variant behaviour for offline games only, to accomodate players that want to practise 1v1 would be much appreciated by myself. Based on the fact sprint enabled combat for bots would be real useful in SDK modding applications, I feel this is a reasonable request/question.

Knight 54 54
  • 26 Aug '18
 Kobilic

@Goof said:
How about you let me

craft

my own weapons with a blacksmithing DLC?

Open world cities and player professions would be pretty coo'

Modding will bring all that kind of jazz in. The fact they made the smith and all these perks already makes it a hell of a lot easier for anyone to come in and alter blue prints. My humble thanks to you Marox for the smithy. She will be smelting many more ores one day.

Knight 54 54
  • 1 May '18
 Kobilic

Yeah I was referring to the round shield, cool!. Any plans for a big shield to protect archers? Something like a bohemian pavise from the 15th century?

Knight 54 54
  • 1 May '18
 Kobilic

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
The skirts and long tunics weren't too much to ask for. Isn't that what the anglo-saxons and vikings more or less wore while invading england in medieval times? We already got tons of viking shit and people cosplay as romans all the time with the sallet, hussar, shortspear and kite. Yeah the roman cosplayers look ugly af and actual roman gear might be too old for the game but the barbarian stuff isn't too far out there. Already got the norse swords and viking helmets, etc.

Yeah I remember reading a post where one of the devs said they are trying to keep it more late-medieval/renaissance period. I know it's highlyyyy unlikely they will add ancient armour, but you can't blame a man for suggesting :P