Mordhau
 kattalainen
Knight
  • Likes received 46
  • Date joined 26 Jul

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Knight 22 46
  • 26 Oct
 kattalainen

@DailyMilkman said:
Just let them do their fucking job and stop arguing like dipshits. They don't need the community anymore (for everyone who gets triggered by this: THEY NEED YOUR MONEY, NOT YOU) since they have enough experience to develop themselves. Everyone knows why people aren't playing and its the combined reason of everything you guys have talked about already. This forum is a massive shitfest :)

are you serious? you are the one bringing this discussion to life again now by necroing this thread, and contributing fuck all to the discussion while at it.
you are right this forum is a massive shitfest though I'll give you that

Knight 22 46
  • 19 Oct
 kattalainen

@Goatie said:
I really cannot get into new builds when players just turn up and accelerate at your feet the whole fight and it's a gamble whether you can parry anything because you're trying to chamber attacks that can't be and in general trying to play normal while they spaz out and try and break the tracers. Delay dragging is fine but jesus the speeds on weapons vary so wildly it's impossible to tell at a glance whether something can interrupt your current action. Like starting a kick and then they have time to start an lmb and drag it into you before your kick lands, what's the god damn point of counter kicking if a fricking eveningstar can just beat it anyway.

Yeah this is something that isn't discussed very much on the forums but I completely agree. Accelerations are way too fast, that it becomes practically impossible to "react" to them, so I have to try and predict with a parry gamble. If they decide to not accelerate the strike I'm fucked.

Knight 22 46
  • 16 Oct
 kattalainen

@BEACHES said:
KICKS.

I've made a point to spam them until they fix this shit.

yeah that will probably help keep the game populated

Knight 22 46
  • 12 Oct
 kattalainen

@TwistedFox said:
If you look to the left then flourish you will flourish on your left side. If you look to the right side you will flourish on the right.

And if you look up and spam it will be like a helicopter. Then all we need are coconut boats and rice hats so we can do this.
Fuck yea!

Knight 22 46
  • 12 Oct
 kattalainen

I bet the high concentration of people with shitty attitudes has driven away a lot of people too.

Knight 22 46

@Frise said:

@kattalainen said:
No, it just makes the game shitty.

Awesome reasoning, the devs should definitely succumb to the opinions of people like you.

nice try

Knight 22 46

@Frise said:

@kattalainen said:

@Frise said:
Advertise wessex drags as draw-cuts or false edge strikes. Done, now newbies think the game is even more realistic.

advertising a piece of shit as chocolate does not make it tasty

Except that mechanically that piece of shit adds a lot of necessary depth to the combat.

No, it just makes the game shitty.

Knight 22 46

@Frise said:
Advertise wessex drags as draw-cuts or false edge strikes. Done, now newbies think the game is even more realistic.

advertising a piece of shit as chocolate does not make it tasty

Knight 22 46

@Runagate said:

@DrEpochノಥ益ಥノ said:

@Runagate said:
He did what @Frise said. Look, not everything that kills you that you can't deal with right away is bad for the game.

think about what you're saying logically.... You're saying a swing that misses should be able to then be moved down after it already passes your body to still connect... That's what you're saying

I said "Things that are hard to counter are not inherently bad".

I did not say "This drag should be possible".

In context as a response to OP you are very much implying wessex drag is not bad. What are you trying to do here? Do you think that wessex drag should be allowed in mordhau or not? if not then why such a snarky remark?

Knight 22 46

@Frise said:
It's not like i actually give ressons for my opinion

Your reasons seem to be 1: it raises the skill level, 2: stuff like "frisedrag" can be defended

1: I can agree that it makes the game more difficult in a certain way, and that certain drags do require certain skill to pull of. But at what cost? is it fun to play against? is it visually pleasing? Is it in line with what this game actually is supposed to be with "believable fights"(quote taken from kickstarter page) and not an acrobatics show?
This same argument also implies that chivalry has way higher skill level because it doesn't have the limitations on drags that mordhau has. In a dragging sense it's true, but dragging is not the number 1 point of this game. (I think? starting to doubt this)
You can also apply any random mechanic such as flying for example, and claim that "it raises the skill level" because in a way it does.

2: yes they can be defended, but again: is defending against exploits fun? notice I'm not saying all drags are exploits, but your frisedrag I certainly categorize as an exploit because you are hitting the opposite side of what your attack is supposed to.
I'll use For Honor as an example here: Cheesiest game I've ever played. Can the cheese be countered? yes, but god damn what boring gameplay it makes. Unless cheesing is what you are into.

You just simply like dragging techniques which is fine, and they do have a place in mordhau. But I think there already is a game out there which has complex drag-fights covered, and I don't want this game to become that.

Knight 22 46

@Frise said:

@Alphonse said:

But to argue that this drags shouldn't be in the game is to be in favor of lowering the skill ceiling and making the combat less special.

Where the hell did I argue that? Who did that in this thread? Please quote or link

Not you, but many people feel that way. Yeah, I kinda put that on you without realizing. Sorry.

@kattalainen said:
Wessex drags are unacceptable though.

You're doing the same to me now though, I never said drags shouldn't be in this game. Wessex drags does not equal ALL drags.

Knight 22 46

@Ƭheodore said:
Drags are part of this game, but like reverses, I think that wessex or "frise" drags should be removed if possible. It's unintuitive and will drive off new players. Somebody will post a gif of it when the game is released and everybody will say it's just another chivalry.

Drags are good, but stupid unintuitive broken looking drags are bad

^This.
Chivalry players playing this game in the same manner that made people stop playing chivalry.
Granted with some work on the animations it might not look as wonky as it does now. Wessex drags are unacceptable though.

Knight 22 46

@BEACHES said:
The noob friendly fix is to lower the parry recovery window, and make panic parrying drain stam.

That's basicly what I'm thinking too.

Another thing I'm thinking is that the timed parry is what actually enables and encourages the players to come up with those drag-shows. And people will probably find ways to work around drag-restrictions to trick you into parrying, which in itself I would call "skillful", but gameplay might end up looking just as ridiculous as chivalry because of the timed parry.
So how do you change parrying into something that would lower incentives to come up with ridiculous drags, without breaking the rest of the game? I have no idea. Might not even be needed when devs are done working on the mechanics their way.

Knight 22 46

@Bodkin said:
If you were to excercise your "10/10" reading comprehension you would notice I was going off the 2 previous comments

Instead of shilling, look for the targets of the comment

Well shit. New comments come up on top and I missed that you weren't the one bringing realism up again.
I Will now commit sudoku.

Knight 22 46

Yes, perfect conclusion from what I said.
10/10 reading comprehension.

Knight 22 46

@Bodkin said:
You don't block with a sword in reality unless you want strikes breaking through your guard and hitting you in the face.

In reality you also don't turn over 90 degrees away from your opponent and aim at the sun to strike his foot on the end of your overhead strike, for full damage.
The realism argument has already been discussed, even in this thread I think. This is a game.

Knight 22 46

You are correct I didn't play much chivalry, because I thought it was a mess, partly because of the timed parry but mostly because of the crazy reverse rainbows and whatever else they are called.
But I knew very well that mordhau would still have the same parry system and even though I'm not fond of it I've played it for 80 hours now and I can tolerate it in this game.
I just saw this thread and thought I'd say something to balance out the (most likely chivalry players) strong opposition to change.

Knight 22 46

@BEACHES said:
Thats fine, it's clear we like different aspects of the game and our opinions are just different. Agree to disagree.

But you are basing your opinion on your own version of a seemingly op blocking mechanic that would indeed make the game more "easy". Believe me I sure as hell don't want the game to turn into easy-mode either.

The timed parry just feels so awkward to me. That said, I don't really have any solutions. Parrying as it is now is part of a working system and any changes to it are kinda hard to tell the outcome without a live testing environment. It may very well be that any other form of parrying in this system would make the game bad, but we wouldn't know this if every suggestion to changes of chivalry mechanics gets shit on by all chivalry players on here, only because you want to keep it the way you are used to or make up straw man arguments like "op blocking will be op".

Knight 22 46

My argument is simple, it makes the game too easy.

Thats why you watch the body movement and parry with the correct timing.... If you use the current click to parry system and just require the guy holds his parry then swords become worse shields. Shields are the LEAST fun thing to fight against in this game. Shield vs shield is even worse.....drags and swing manipulation become irrelevant and it becomes a match of who can lower their shield/parry first to then get acceled in the face or who will screw up a chamber first and get hit. Go play shield vs shield and watch how quickly you become bored with the game. Only thing you can do is try and chamber to gain the stam advantage, facehug and kick, and maybe accel overhead gamble and get a lucky shot in.

The another way to make holding a parry work is you need to have the parries also follow the 240 attacking system. This effectively makes the game 1st person mount and blade. I hate mount and blade and want no part of that.

Well then my counter "argument" is I don't think it would make the game too easy.

"If you use the current click to parry system and just require the guy holds his parry then swords become worse shields" I didn't think the blocking system would just be a permanent version of the current parry, I think that would make it better than shields even. Nobody wants that.
I don't find fighting shields as boring as you do. Drags and swing manipulation does not become irrelevant at all.
"it becomes a match of who can lower their shield/parry first to then get acceled in the face or who will screw up a chamber first and get hit" oh you mean same as a fight without shields?

"I hate mount and blade and want no part of that" well I hate Chivalry and want no part of that.

Knight 22 46

This is not chiv though, and I specifically backed this game because it was supposed to be an improvement of chiv.
Besides the ridiculous dragging, that timed parry from chivalry is the next big thing that annoyed me about that game.
The problem I have with the parry is the loss of control for too long time. And between long drags and super accelerations it becomes a gamble trying to time parries correctly... either the attack connects after 2 seconds or a tenth of a second after release.

Claiming you would never miss a parry when dragging/morphing/feinting/chambering/aiming the parry and finding angles with attacks still are a thing is just... nah.
Stamina wars? possibly, except that other games that had similar mechanic didn't turn into stamina wars so why would this?

It may result in shitty gameplay sure, Idk, but we are here to try things out. I haven't seen a good argument against trying something like this out yet.