Mordhau
 Reapy
  • Likes received 128
  • Date joined 30 Mar '16
  • Last seen 13 Sep '19

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96 128
  • 18 Sep '17
 Reapy

Same question on the movement. (Have to wait to get home to try, arg). I'm not sure how the swing picking is going but ideally it would be good to 'lock in' your swing as soon as you press LMB on button down. Basically when you click that is it, you've whipped your mouse, clicked the button down, and you are done with the swing selection process and are into turning your view or manipulating your swing at that point. After the click, even on hold, you probably don't want to have your swing adjusted.

Anyway this is pretty awesome and quick turn around.

Just need some stabs when I look down for my life to be complete, though am getting used to the button. It's funny how everyone from chiv saying the thrust chambers are the easiest and swings are hard while I find it the opposite while I'm learning, to realize I have another attack button for some cases.

96 128
  • 17 Sep '17
 Reapy

You want the mouse to select the direction your mouse was moving right when you left click. Right now it buffers the last 100ms of movement, so if you flick left, click, and keep moving back right, you get a right swing (as was said).

All you want is to just lock in the way you moved. You don't want to record movement after lmb presses (which is what it currently is doing), you want it to take in the direction flick you just made and that only. Your hand should be free to do whatever you want again after you left click and not force you to arbitrarily hold the direction you want to swing.

96 128
  • 15 Sep '17
 Reapy

Ahh very nice, thank you.

I was a bit confused if during the drag it was important to move your mouse with the animation to make it more awkward visually when people really meant to just hit at different parts/timings of the swing arc.

For the parries i saw how depending how you move you'd get a different location for the parry animation so was thinking it was tied into direction system in a more binary sort of way rather than just putting the forcefield up where you specify.

96 128
  • 15 Sep '17
 Reapy

@marox said:
Next patch the buffer will be infinite, there was also another change that should improve the accuracy somewhat since 0 inputs on axes weren't handled correctly. Arrow indicator is planned but we haven't had time to put it in yet.

You guys rock.

Also if you don't know, Jest is a machine, for the past 10 years since I saw him destroy everyone in m&b he has been in every melee game I've been able to find at the top of the score board every time, while giving amazingly accurate feedback about the game. I may be a bit of a fanboy though, well, yes, yes I am.

96 128
  • 1
  • 15 Sep '17
 Reapy

@das said:
There are ways to juke out and bait failing chambers. Morphing and dragging are the two most obvious ways. A very "meta" opener right now is stab -> morph into overhead -> drag onto foot. This entices stab chambers a lot, which will fail against your attack because it's morphed into a strike. If they're patient and wait, it's still very tough to chamber a dragged overhead aimed at your foot.

Thank you for al the great info.

Just so I can get up to speed with chivalry terminology, about the drag part of it. In chiv the drag was say a right to left swing where you turn right at the same speed as the swing to hold it from hitting the person and going past their parry window?

Is the drag specific about turning the swing away from someone or could you just aim to hit someone on the back half of the swing arc so it is late?

In your set up how do you do the drag onto the foot? Do you say swing upper left, when you say drag to the foot do you mean just look down and try to hit early on the swing arc to the foot, or delay the attack and hit lower down?

I think I still don't get parries in the game because it feel like I block a lot of things that I'm picking the wrong direction for and I thought i'd just fail out, or is it really not about matching say a left attack with a right block, but making sure your parry direction is where the blade is regardless of how weapon got there (hence the idea of dragging a swing to a different angle to defeat the parry)

96 128
  • 15 Sep '17
 Reapy

I noticed a difference. I think it is your camera offset from where your head would be. I liked having it at -15 and felt I could see a bit more as it moved the camera to where the back of your skull would be. I haven't adjusted my FOV past 110 so maybe at the higher FOVs it's less noticeable. I know i'm supposed to warp my screen and make the game look like ass to be competitive but I just can't do it.

96 128
  • 15 Sep '17
 Reapy

@VladimusMaximus said:
Kind of annoyed that the SteamVR fix isn't in place for this to be honest. Is this something complex?

Just did some googling, for unreal might have to "disable the Plugins in the Unreal Editor under Edit->Plugins->Virtual Reality." Don't use unreal and not sure this fixes it but was some of the results that came up.

Someone mentioned launching with a -nohmd option though not sure if that will work (not home to test).

I've been able to get it started up by letting everything open up and closing steam vr and oculus and then killing the mordhau window (which is black), then trying to open again. Steam VR doesn't start up the second time around but then oculus opens up and I left that open. Sometimes I have to restart it a few times to get going, and honestly it looks like something breaks as I have to reboot my computer before steam will either shut down, or, if i kill steam task, have to reboot before it restarts.

96 128
  • 14 Sep '17
 Reapy

I know you can use the attack grunt to time a parry off of, though it seems like most weapons the grunt after a thrust before impact is pretty short and hard to react off of.

Haven't had time to find a duel or play enough for timing windows but taking a stab at theory but when you say the chamber solves it is that because the chamber timing defeats the feint due to basically hitting the guy if he feints or chambering the attack if he lets it go?

Assuming you are playing someone that will 100% chamber you (i have no doubt within a week there will be players like this if not already), where does the meta go?

This is why I really can't wait to see people dueling at a high level and finding out the answer to this question.

96 128
  • 14 Sep '17
 Reapy

I've had some issues because it is not ultra sensitive like m&b and too short of a movement won't get picked up, but the main thing is you want to learn to move your mouse almost the minimum required amount of time for it to pick up your direction.

You can test this out by moving your view right, then left click to see your right swing. Then move your mouse back a few pixels to the left and swing, hopefully having the left swing come out. If you do it short enough your view shouldn't move at all.

Try to think of your mouse movement in two modes. One is standard looking around, the other is a quick drop into swing selection and a click, then you go back to movement.

So think of turning camera left to track someone, then you want to attack right, so you flick your mouse just a hair to the right in a very small movement and click the button, then continue right on with your left motion.

Biggest thing people had learning to swing select with mouse was making too big of movements. For you I'd try to find that minimum amount with the lower DPI settings (left mine at 1600 dpi still).

I do hope it gets a bit more sensitive picking up swing directions in future patches, I found that moving the cursor maybe 3 or 4 pixels to another direction won't pick up on it and that might be exacerbated by the lower DPI settings too.

But once you get the hang of swinging ideally you keep your cursor in like a 10 px by 10px area while selecting your swing, and only do so for half a second, and that'll keep your camera very stable.

96 128
  • 14 Sep '17
 Reapy

Still trying to figure out the combat system a bit (not a lot of play time) and had some questions from playing last night.

First is parrying. I thought it was direction dependent but it seems like you always parry no matter which direction the parry is set if the timing is right. Is the deal basically you can only repost if you have parried correctly? Is there a different block sound or any indicator if you can repost, or can you just repost any attack you parry?

I noticed that to repost when it works you have to click attack while the parry animation is up, not hit it after the impact or you don't get that quick strike.

On to stamina, trying to figure out how the attrition game works. You lose stamina when you parry, and lose it when you swing and hit the air, but not if you hit someone (even if blocked). So the idea here is that you need to not swing into the air and you can only parry so many times before you must chamber or dodge out of the way with a duck or movement (is that what people mean by matrixing?).

Obviously I'm nowhere near messing up before stamina is an issue but when it gets to that point, is it going to mostly be a rule that the first attacker is going to win the attrition war unless someone adds in a chamber or dodge?

96 128
  • 13 Sep '17
 Reapy

@Ƭheodore said:
Does sensitivity reset every time the game is launched for you guys? I have to set it back to 0.02 every time

You know, I wonder if the preferences aren't saving? I only restarted twice but the second time in I had to invert my mouse again. I just chalked it up to a fluke because I alt f4ed while a server was changing maps and crashed my game pretty hard (had to hustle to real life thing and couldn't wait for load) so thought I had just screwed something up that way. Will try to test both those things again tonight.

96 128
  • 13 Sep '17
 Reapy

Wondering if they didn't want to have that stuff happening as much and instead wanted people to focus on parries, chambers, and timing rather than obscuro angles and disguising animations?

That sort of thing is the thing that makes people quit a game in frustration as it more feels like you are playing the game engine rather than the designed combat system. I realize that most games do devolve into that, but things like dragging a dangling hitbox into someone before the animation ends is something you'd want to avoid in your game. You'd want to first avoid it being possible and also provide a designed mechanic that lets you overcome someone's defense so the technique wouldn't be needed in the first place.

This is just my thought on that and my guess for the chosen tuning they used for the turn rates. I'd also hope that they deaden swing damage on the end of the arc as well as the start of it to keep the damage band within the main swinging part of the animation.

96 128
  • 13 Sep '17
 Reapy

Yes, I have strong feelings about sprint and I love the warband implementation where running with no actions engages it and any action takes you out of it.

This way it is used as transportation and first engages and does not affect the move speed in a fight.

As it is now you must hold shift constantly while fighting to have max move speed which is critical in a melee game.

96 128
  • 12 Sep '17
 Reapy

I think UDK by default wants to start in VR mode. Very easy to miss this if you don't have VR on your machine ever. There are a few games out there I've seen this happen to before. I think it should be a very quick fix whenever they do their next patch.

96 128
  • 30 Mar '16
 Reapy

Awesome, thank you for the answers.

So glad you guys are taking all this stuff into account and seriously, it is a refreshing change from when I asked about this stuff in the chiv alpha and war of the roses alpha and got either silence or a 'sure sure sounds good' reply.

Getting pretty pumped for this game, it really looks nice in action, even better with all the details.

96 128
  • 30 Mar '16
 Reapy

I have to admit that when I first saw the game I mistook it for a chivalry clone. The visuals are overwhelmingly similar, and unfortunately I don't know how you change it since historical armor looks like historical armor. I assume they both use unreal, so you are getting the unreal 'look and feel' to the terrain, color saturation and all of that very similar. It is also the look of the sword and the swing animations look very, very similar. I don't know how you would do it differently though.

I think if you got some different colors in there and tried to change up the landscape's colors to be a bit different than chivalries IN THE TRAILERS ONLY, that would help. You want to make that trailer look very much NOT like chivalry. It is apparent to me once the game starts moving that it is not chivalry, but it might be a harder sell to people that don't know the game too well.

All that said this is looking pretty damn awesome. Everything out of the developers mouth says they understand playing melee games and have a vision, which is great.

I had one question about the re-aiming of attacks. I know that is often a 'must have' feature, but it also is a point of weakness for 'lack of control', per-say, in your combat system. You can't limit how fast a player looks too much, that would feel poorly to the player, that means that despite limiting turn rates and how fast you swing to value that are good, you can not reasonably limit swing adjustments.

For testing I would advise you to try playing with a macro that relocates you post thrust 90 degrees to your left then back to dead center and see how that feels. Also try having the macro rapidly adjust your point of view post swing in a random haywire direction. Use the macros to control it so you don't just dismiss this kind of movement as 'nobody can control this, you can't see' because people will try it and will figure out how to make it work.

I could be wrong here, like if it is a right based swing coming at you, it might be enough to just parry in a leftward direction and doesn't matter the height correction. I think though with the thrust, it changes from high to low very quickly, and I am not quite sure how a player would adjust for that.

I guess if the right click parry just blocks anything coming at you regardless of direction it wouldn't really matter so much. Eh.

Also feints. I left chiv pretty early but when I last left they were basically 50/50% gambles unless you could predict people, basically you couldn't read and react to a feint in time to make a decision, it was a guess, either block now or in half a second, which to choooseee. I hope it isn't quite like that, but I have a feeling based on what is in there that it isn't but had to ask.

Finally, ye old look down overheads, aka, full damage as soon as the swing comes out. Is that still the case, or not really a factor and there is a delay there before the swing will hurt all the way?