Mordhau
 Reapy
  • Likes received 128
  • Date joined 30 Mar '16
  • Last seen 13 Sep

Private Message

96 128
  • 28 Jun
 Reapy

Hello, just wanted to ramble a bit about horses. My background is from m&b and I mostly played as an infantry player and would overall have considered myself as a bumbling cav player at best, however I spent a lot of time figuring out how to stop or ignore them. Honestly I secretly hated horses and would sometimes spend my whole time just headshotting them and watching the cav players tumble into the infantry to get gang banged. Anyway.

So, there are a lot of things that comp level cav do in mount & blade that are very possible here, yet no one really putting the time in for it, and it sort of scares me. Like we think horses are bad now, they could be much, much worse, especially with the existing mechanics.

I'd describe a good cav player as:

  • Always hit at max extension of lance thrust. Rides in half circles at you so they always hit you well out of range. Never lets you get close to them, if so, only for half a second to kill you or from behind.
  • They footwork the horse. Half ride in, slow, ride in again. Basically fake diving on you and only going in when they have a good look. The same way you maneuver in a duel they'll duel you with the horse movement out of your range. I could jebait in average/good cav on foot but never a comp level player at all. Again you'll never get close to them.
  • They never hit a wall or ever slow down, ever.
  • First there was bump slash. With a sword they ride sort of diagnal through you and start a swing. As the horse is bumping you in a stun animation their weapon hits you and is unblockable.
  • Next came the bump lance. The timing is harder and you have to start the stab before you hit them, but same idea. Look down hard with lance and knock them in bump stun, undefendable.
  • I didn't follow the comp scene as much but I think a lot of the teams had just a few cav per side as they needed infantry to cap points. But there was some pretty intense coordination going on but that's sort of outside care here I think.

So overall you can do all of this and then some in mordhau.

In m&b it was mostly trivial to defend cav that wasn't back stabbing you. You just hold down block and you are mostly invincible except for a good bump slash/thrust, which granted was harder to pull off and you didn't see in pub that often. If they couched they'd have to come close and you could sort of spring out of the way or you'd have a shield to block it.

In mordhau it's a lot harder to defend. The first issue is that you get flinched hard out of your attack all the time. It's very hard to just slash at a passing horse without getting interrupted, even if they are riding a linear path right past you.

The timed block makes it harder as now you have to see the swing animation timing and time it against the horse. This is further made difficult by the fact that the horses still feel a bit out of sync when at full speed depending on the rider's or your ping. It's a bit better since the last fix but still not great.

In m&b on horseback it was hard to cross the horses head to do damage. So you could often jump into the horse head and be mostly safe. In mordhau you can slash right through your horse so there really isn't anywhere safe in the forward arc at all.

Another issue is that it's very expensive in terms of your loadout to counter horses. You can toolbox, billhook, throwing weapon, or go archer, and maybe spear/halberd to some extent. Thing is these are major commitment to these weapons though, and if you don't want to play them, its frustrating to have to not play your preferred loadout. What makes it harder still is that because there are only a few horses per map, and honestly even on xroads the horse fighting doesn't matter, it's hard to want to commit to a horse killing loadout to only take out a one or two riders.

However, if you don't take those one or two riders out and they are dedicated, they will be backstabbing you or knocking you down every time you get up into a fight which is just overall frustrating.

So where now the suggestions:

I'd first reduce the hell out of the damage. 1 shot kill only with big weapon at full speed. Other weapons only with a headshot at full speed. Maybe even consider removing 1 shot kills from horseback unless couched at full speed.

Make medium speed a 2 shot t3 torso.

I'd make the horse act like a player without any bump or flinch when hitting people at medium to low speeds. This means if you ride into people even a bit slow you are going to be basically mobbed and dead unless you can wack them out of the way with your weapon. Maybe there will be some issue here with trolls blocking in horses and the like but overall the thought of this feels better, it's avoidable by a good rider, and leaves some counter play and less frustration when they slam into a wall and flinch you as they ride out.

I'd like the horse to slow down by some when you slash it, not a ton, just a bit. Should feel like you're doing something to hurt them when you attack the horse.

I don't know how I feel about the couched weapon drop. I think i'd be better if you just knocked the person over. Usually I just end up looking for my weapon in the grass and never find it, being sort of annoyed about the whole thing.

I think the hitbox for the horse at speed still needs some tweaking. Again it is better, but still when someone is full speed I usually just see a horse and I'm dead, doesn't look like they hit me at all. At med, med/high speeds it feels pretty good though, I can see the hits coming in.

I'd like to see cav rewarded for keeping up max speed, and make it harder for them to do it. I'd like to see them get eaten up if they ride through infantry and instead make them have to stick to the edges of the group and swoop in, as again that would take some skill, and leave more room for anticipating where they are going as they will have to slow down. With reduced damage then, I'd just like to take like 90% damage instead of 100% plus getting ragdolled like a cannon out of the way.

I know this is a huge nerf, but I think it would make horses more playable and maybe we'd even see them get put into comp play with some more changes.

To me the major issues are low speed flinching, bodies not slowing them down, and tap 100% kills if they touch you. Remove this and then horses will need some skill and be much less frustrating overall IMHO.

96 128
  • 28 Jun
 Reapy

I think like people said it's a frontline issue. While I feel post patch taiga is more balanced, it's less 'fun', if that makes sense. I really liked trying to get that central spot as blue, and hopping over that wall or flaking was pretty fun. But in terms of winning it was meh.

All in all I think the big issue is just the flow of the game as a push/pull map. 5 points you just need to hold the center, while the 4 point maps usually run down to an 'even' match unless one side is steamrolling. This means that the map flow is tied to the number of spawn points and not really the map design, so they all feel somewhat similar.

I'll be really curious to see how the newer maps play and/or gamemode changes. I think push maps with really good asymmetric map design will ultimately be more fun for big pub games as each map and each side will feel differently paced.

96 128
  • 28 Jun
 Reapy

Played just a bit around alpha release and put it down till release. I have about 175 hours I think. Right now I'm like most people where the MUST GET HOME AND PLAY urge is gone, but if I click the icon and play I'll be in for a bit. I enjoy the mechanics and working on things a lot and trying to get better, but ultimately I think I'd like a few additional game modes.

I really want to be able to participate in small team skirmishes. Regular skermish isn't my deal, I need to maximize playtime and people hiding or just screwing up early is enough to make me go find another server. TDM's end too fast but are pretty fun when they are around 8v8ish.

Dueling is good still but dependent on who is on, and usually I'm worried I'm boring people by getting farmed. Ranked will be good here because they'll enjoy farming me for rank points so there's that.

Frontline is still fun, it is dependent on how many horses/archers/firepot people are online though. I do wish the maps had a nicer flow to them, while they provide some good balanced fights from time to time, they don't really have peak moments, they just sort of ebb and flow on their own.

I'll frontline by default and go around the edges of the map to goof around and try to learn mechanics better. On days I'm more awake will be in dueling. Starting to look at other games to play though.

Overall I think what would most excite me is getting the ability to 3v3 / 5v5 with a match maker. I just am no good at networking or being able to commit to time/places so unfortunately need the computer to solve it for me. I'd like to try these game modes out a lot, honestly since m&b I've wanted to try 3v3 / small team melee gameplay.

Second would be waiting for a frontline rework, though overall I'm sort of happy with frontline. The maps I like the most in frontline are usually ones where I can get off to the side action. Grad I love to fight around the horse barn thing through the back of the house by the catapult. Usually all the spam is between the two spawns and on the side I can get mixed XvX melee fights.

Horses I sort of hate. I've thought about making a post about it but I'd summarize the issue as the flinching speed needs to be raised, more things need to slow them down, and overall it's too hard to defend against them. In m&b you just downblock or dodge into the horse head if they are couching, which you can't seem to do here. If you block the couch your weapon goes off into the grass somewhere and I lose it all the time. All in all they are frustrating without much exciting counter play.

96 128
  • 27 Jun
 Reapy

Same issues here. As a work around you can bind sprint to w along with forward. I reassigned shift to duck and ctrl to forward. You can hold ctrl or crouch walk to heal up. Much more comfortable that way.

96 128
  • 19 Jun
 Reapy

Trolls evolve rapidly, look at how they are working around the vote kick system, they will do the same without damage. Try to duel when there is someone running between you all the time or pantomiming attacks at you both, bumping into you with collision, planting pavis or building spikes/walls on top of you and it can be frustrating. Teleport really minimizes it, even if it accidentally goes off when you are moving between areas sometimes.

Not sure how accurate this is but heard jax talking briefly about the ranked duel mode on a stream a week or two ago and he mentioned basically filling up a server with players, but everyone as ghosts to you except the person you are dueling, That way they could move people around in matches and things without making you join a ton of servers.

Granted the rank mode is a different animal than a decent duel mode as you have to get people matches and opponents quickly based on ranks. It's probably a pretty hard problem when you think about it as when do you decide to kick a player off a server to find the right ranked person for them to duel next and other kinds of things like that.

And yeah rcon and good logs would start letting scripts do a lot of legwork while waiting for devs to do stuff. Autokick if TK within a short window. If vote kick comes up server can report team damage and TK's in chat etc. Warn /kick for smoke use on duel servers etc.

96 128
  • 19 Jun
 Reapy

I really want to see the moded m&b duel server formats in mordhau at some point, even if we have to wait for the SDK. You are right the community part of it is great. While duel servers will still be a thing, changes are when the 1v1 mode comes out the duel servers populations will get wiped out, if anything because there is no griefing control.

Duel servers were, nobody can hit anybody else at all. Look at each other and hit button to ask for duel, other person does the same. Countdown timer, 3, 2, 1 and the duel is active and you can hit one another. After death full health granted.

Mods made it better by:

  1. Start duel by 'saluting' one another, the equivalent of flourishing here.
  2. Teleport people away from active duels. Could grief sometimes by standing near their fight still.

Bunch of other feature like being able to initiate fights to 7 in a specific area etc.

But mordhau basically needs a no damage till duel start, teleporting near by people, ban on smoke + fire, and limit building to specific areas of the map and it would be a lot better.

96 128
  • 14 Jun
 Reapy

You guys with your mad where you think words can't hurt or cause violence or problems are living in a bubble. You think it's not an issue for a company to have racist server names in their server browser? You think that makes good business sense?

I mean if you want to position yourself as a racist ironically that's fine, the world will only see a racist, even if you don't believe what flag you are standing behind. If that's who you want to be to the world, I mean go for it, congratulations, you're a racist, good job.

A lot of people spouting free speech don't even understand our (US) first amendment. You can't say anything you want. You can't shout "FIRE" in a crowded theater, you can be arrested. Political speech is protected, but if you aren't making a political statement or are attempting to incite violence or terror, you can be arrested. See texas vs johnson for reference, he burned a flag but because he was making a statement and not trying to incite violence, he got off. Had he not been protesting, his sentence would have stood.

Free speech generally protects what you and say though, but that doesn't mean that anybody has to stand around and listen to you, or want to be around you, or want to provide goods and service to you either, or even like you. It doesn't mean a business has to accept your racism either.

I don't know why you guys confuse common decency with insane SJW behavior because people don't want to listen to assholes typing racist comments 24x7 in servers and now polluting the server list with it as well. I don't know why if you like this game you think that they should let this kind of bullshit be the first thing player's see when they go to play their game. I can't understand how you'd argue at all that it's acceptable to leave it that way.

I'm pretty much like RyMarq though, I was young ,I was an asshole. I've though I was being ironic or funny because 'we didn't really mean it', but in the end the world will never know what is happening in your head, only how you choose to represent yourself. This is just advice for those younger I expect to get laughed at, but hopefully one day you might understand why you are surround by a certain type of person that might be very different than how you feel inside.

96 128
  • 13 Jun
 Reapy

@Peacerer said:
During alpha i sometimes have asked those few of the remaining 30 people who were coming online daily if they weren't getting bored ingame. Were they still coming online just for the sake of it or were they really enjoying the game so much.
Because i sure was bored as hell from time to time, i've even gone for like 2-3 months in between. Some of them kept quiet, some of them responded, some of them told me to f* off, while the truth is often many of them just trolled ingame without actually playing it.

Actually, some of them said game was going to change big time at release, it just need more content etc. I also said in alpha and will say it again, despite massive success game was released to early.

Offtopic/
Often i got that feeling (not just with Mordhau) people are afraid to tell criticism. It's like die hard fanboys should defend their precious game 100% although there might be some parts of the game they don't really like. I gave thumbs-up to Mordhau the moment comments had been enabled on Steam. I do think game is good. But that doesn't mean i have to be quiet about the aspect and parts of the game (or developers) i don't like or think it's not made right. What i mean to say is You don't have to be afraid to express yourself. ;)

Agree here. I put the alpha down after about 2 weeks or so when it came out. I liked what I saw but wasn't sure I wanted to bang my head against everything and didn't think I'd be good enough to have relevant feedback to the combat system vs the chiv vets already in game to steer it right. I just wanted more content and wanted to see the game polished up.

And they really did a great number on everything. I could tell during the stress test the modes needed to be tweaked a lot. Thing is I think that they could not tweak the maps well without player count anyway. They didn't have a diverse population, it was top heavy with skilled players that all know each other. It won't show how the world will play the game.

Now they have that data and hopefully some time to ramp up, maybe even hire a few more artists and level designers to in the next few months to ease the workload. The start mordhau has now is great, they just need to play around and find the right game modes/maps. Even if you want to argue the frontline objectives aren't fun or whatever, you can see that the hooks are in place for designers to make a good map.

Moving parts activated by switches. Doors with health points and damage states. Dynamic objectives like torchers / tents changing as you progress. Pushable carts along paths. NPC bosses. Able to change environments, say what you will about camp but the way the mid section of the map changes as those towers go down and defenses are built up hints at incredible potential. Cap points seem to have controllable verticality and I like the way it adds up defenders/attackers for control.

All in all there's a lot of working tech in place that just needs to be designed nicely.

Honestly I REALLY like grad (and I'm a sucker for bright and sunny to be honest, I love bright and sunny grass), while it needs some tweaks it is my favorite map by a long shot. I

Next I'd say camp because the gameplay feels fun to me and I enjoy the skirmish around the river a lot. I feel like it's the most varied in terms of game results, and I've gotten to fight on every section of the map mostly. The part on the left from blue side isn't usually to populated but have had a lot of good 2v2's 1v3's etc over there.

I haven't been able to get into Taiga since whatever changes were made, but with some tweaking I'd put that right up there with grad. I'd really like to see the fight pushed to some of those flank areas that are pretty interesting and get rid of how oppressive it is to lose the fort on blue.

Mountain peak I just straight up hate. No other way to say it, when it gets picked it's just a smash up the middle. When blue is winning it's a giant cluster fuck of too much rapid spawning madness, when red is winning it's too hard to stop the torch throwers and it just sorta ends.

Crossroads I'm sort of on the fence with. I like being able to get on a horse and play with balista and catapults finally. It's a map where you might actually want to be an archer. I also like how none of it matters because you need to just cluster fuck the treehouse. That's also why I sort of don't like it as well, all that stuff on the edge of the map doesn't matter at all. So it's sort of a love hate with it.

I think the idea of the map is good, just that center fort doesn't quite utilize enough going on. What I think this map should end up being is the time for engineering, polearms, throwing weapons, and archers to shine. I think if you ripped down a lot more of the walls and exposed it to horses, also allowed more player built defenses in there, and also had some choke points in front of the cap for either side, it might be better.

Essentially I'd want to see horses be able to sweep the bottom part, but you have to dismount and fight to cap up top, sort of like now. But I really want horses to make a mess of the bottom, so players will end up just setting up wood palisades and billhooking one another and really ramp up the anti horse, but they still would have to push in past all that to cap the point once a team is set up. I dunno though have to think on it more.

So, just looking at Taiga, it really hints at something. When you are blue and you take the fort. It's awesome. It feels great sieging it, it feels so good to get a foothold on it and move out to the next section. It's great. It is only marred by the fact that as you are trying to take it you are losing the game, and how easy it is to lose it again. If once you got it, you held onto it forever as in TO, the whole experience would be great. Just a small tweak to alter how you'd feel about the whole thing.

I know some players mentioned how a few other games went point positive from capping things and I'd love to try something like that out.

Finally, I think the dev team could do with a weekly blog post to just say what they are working on. I think marox's post here is what a lot of people want to see and there's no sense burying it 3 pages into a forum post. That first post with screenshots of the city map was a good precedent and I hope they continue along those lines.

96 128
  • 10 Jun
 Reapy

@Maci said:

@Guiden said:

@Maci said:
There's a slow and a fast kick

Oh word? How do you do that? I know you can drag kicks because of the active frames.

You can't choose. You get either the one or the other. Not even marox knows exactly when what triggers, but basically you get the slow kick if you're trying to cheese.

Heard crush on stream talking about it and he mentioned it being dynamic based on how far into your attack you morph out of it into kick. A very late morph will be very slow while earlier into the attack is a faster kick.

96 128
  • 7 Jun
 Reapy

This isn't chiv. Dev team has balanced 3rd person and comp players feel 1st person is better regardless, so why would they ban it?

Crush just posted it and time and again they have said play as you want. Fov is limited intentionally, 3rd person camera is placed intentionally for balance.

Pick what you like and main it, don't worry about not being able to use it when you want.

96 128
  • 4 Jun
 Reapy

I've felt this a bit too when trying to get a specific hit. You have to really jam your hand back the direction you want and make sure that you set the direction post parry. I do have a feeling something is a little odd feeling as a simple motion like looking left then trying to ripost down right can be hard to pull out without a little practice.

I think though it does come down to the issue of you needing to ripost in a very short window of time and due to this we are clicking before dragging back the direction we want. When I really focused on getting the direction I wanted and being fast with it, it works.

So it might just be by nature of the control scheme. I think there are honestly a lot of little situations 240 is awkward to do, say you want to look down right to accel but want to start windup for an upper left while you are moving your camera while also looking 'smooth', you are going to have to stop, jerk back, and continue the motion. With a button you just hit it and are free to drag all over to go with or against the swing.

96 128
  • 31 May
 Reapy

Folks, the devs feel the same way. I've seen devs on stream ban people making those comments on the servers they are on.

It's a small team, they are working on a lot of things. They probably also just got their money from sales, or will soon, so I imagine the financial/company planning is going to take a lot of time as well. We'll get our filters, it's just a question of when.

Honestly the best solution will be remote connection to the servers so admins can start writing scripts to react off logs. Just having a log of chat and team damage and we'll have autokick/ban for language and excessive team wounding. Probably have to tune it up for catapults though.

96 128
  • 30 May
 Reapy

I did see that they factor in some other latency times besides just network connection to the ping. I've noticed that on frontline my pings fluctuate up and down as more people join the server and when more 'activity' is happening. I've been on some silky smooth community servers too.

I have a feeling mordhau is really CPU bound and the server's might need to have a bit more beef than they currently have to support large frontline games. I really wish the official server's will get upgraded in the future as I love the matchmaker convenience but it always puts me into a 100 ping frontline game which ends up just not being fun at all and I end up having to look for a community server instead.

96 128
  • 28 May
 Reapy

Maybe you are in hit stun?

When you get attacked you can't attack right back, but you can parry.

Another option is double binds. I had an issue binding my mouse thumb to thrust because the button was doing another attack. The thrust would eventually go out but it was very odd behavior, I think I was actually morphing 24x7 on thrust because it was a strike bound to the thumb button too.

The game doesn't report 100% of conflicting binds, just shows one of the many when it warns you. I went ahead for safety and just unbound everything I wasn't using so I knew what I was getting, so could possibly be that too.

96 128
  • 28 May
 Reapy

I think what is confusing is the type of drags and that you never get any feedback as to what your drag looked like.

You can point your character so you are looking away and hit on the tail end of the swing staying stationary.
You can start so you'd hit them as an accel, then drag the swing to hit on the end of the arc.
You can start turning away during windup.
You can start turning away during release.
You can turn your body away with footwork to hit on the end.
You can do any of the above with additional footwork.

All of this is impossible to tell what your character looks like while doing it. So given all the different drag options it's no wonder people are confused by the mechanic.

I'd honestly love an admin command to let you use spectator cam while controlling your character just to give an option of seeing what your movement looks like.

I've also considered playing around with the demo record feature to maybe playback movements but it might be hard to learn too much there.

96 128
  • 28 May
 Reapy

It's in. Use hybrid set up and bind strikes and let mouse determine left or right.

96 128
  • 27 May
 Reapy

Deathmatch = duel.

96 128
  • 23 May
 Reapy

Yeah my ping feels higher than last night, also not seeing as many official servers as I used to, looking for the TDM right now and not seeing it.

96 128
  • 22 May
 Reapy

I've noticed that when frontline servers in NA fill up to 64, my ping jumps up from about 65ish to around 90 to 100 which makes the game harder to play. You really can't react to feints, and actually a lot of times I accidentally blocked morphs due to the latency. The more I duel on fluff's nyc 120 tick server the more I need to click last second to parry and it hurts going from that to 100 in frontline.

What I've been doing is trying the match maker to see if I can luck out having 50 ping frontlines, if not then I go to the server browser and look for the lower player capped NA east (which is closer to me) community servers and can have some good games there.

If the ping is a combo of other things I have a feeling servers are lagging under 64 players and some of the heavier maps like grad to cause the higher ping. Same servers I usually have the ping I'd expect until the player count rises and I'm back to 100.

96 128
  • 21 May
 Reapy

For comp really the best will be 5v5 or other number formats being match made. Even if it's a pub to get into XvX games that would be really awesome. Basically your cs go format. I really like the idea of playing comp sort of relaxed but I never have enough time to commit to learning/joining a team, so I'd love to be able to do 5v5's with MMRed PUG teams.

I really wonder how to do dueling MMR though. I really want a legit duel mode ala mount & blade duel servers. I don't want it to be like say for honor where you queue up with someone and can rematch at the end. I mean that would be fine, I just don't want to lose the atmosphere of a duel server with everyone in it and playing. I just want all the anti grief tools in place more than anything.

And also my real wishlist is a practice bot. Even if it's just a console command I want a bot that I can set to different modes like random feint, morphs, chambers, and have it do some legit drags too. I really just need some hours looking at feints and I feel like people are getting bored of me just eating their swings while I try to learn.