Chiv has much better animations, for both attacks and (especially) player movement, it's backwings dealing damage what fucks the game visually.

@Hadeus said:
Does anyone honestly want fights looking like this?

lmao, this is terrible.

@Jax said:
Extra angles allow more precision and removing them would reduce the freedom allowed. We're not going to go in and make 6 new animations per weapon type when we already have a system that works.

I think we all want attacks to be more readable, but removing the freedom of attacks from the game isn't the way to do this.

The freedom of 240 angles is like having the freedom of choosing any of 9999 games on this thing:

There are only 6 angles you need, "240 freedom" is not even a good selling point, there is no reason to compromise on more important issues just to keep it. Especially when 6 separate angles would open an additional possibility of OHs, Slahes and Uppercuts all having their independent turncaps, which seems to be a source of major clunkiness and restricted feeling.

@Duckalot said:
What a concrete and constructive suggestion!

Also shields.

@Stouty said:
2 stabs is already excessive

Tbh.

The Cerebral Palsy 1H alternate stab is especially redundant.

Another trap of 240 tbh. It has a negative impact on the game, mostly through animation problems it introduces (ripostes, stabs, shit blending too much or not blending at all, unintelligible angles when opponent is doing torso movements) but also by making the whole control system a mess.

6 directions of strikes + 2 stabs should be it.

Isn't murican accent actually the "old" one while current UK accents come from 19th century tho?

@Jax said:
We could do a combination

automation + player voting

if you go above x amount of team/enemy damage ratio or have a high enough ping you can be player voted out of a match with a 55% or higher

if you don't have that it would take like 80% or so

Yes please - autokick in the most clear-cut cases and leave vote for the players for the rest.

This is a thing that can be tested on paper to an extent, so you can even tell us your ideas on the forums and we will try to come up with ways to abuse it.

Bardiche is fine.

It's like 90% of the problems in the game are due to animations and Bardiche is one of them.

Unpopular opinion - barring backswings, anims are worse than in Chiv.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I'm speaking out of experience here, it's a thing in csgo. Two of your team decides to ruin your fun, you throw an incendiary to defend your position, the two dumbasses rush into it and boom you're banned 30 minutes or more.

In mordhau, the firepot is an area denial tool. Someone is likely to use them to defend or attack an objective in frontline. It would be annoying if you can't even use them because people would throw themselves in it on purpose to get you kicked.

The problem is that both firepot itself and counting firepot damage could be misused for trolling but the firepot itself has a much higher trolling potential, whereas what you describe should be a marginal occurrence.

It's virtually the same issue as with votekick - you implement votekick and risk that occasionally an innocent player will be kicked for the greater gain of being able to get rid of trolls. Here we would accept that sometimes a rare person that is dedicated enough and retarded enough will jump into your firepot to raise your TD but in return we make misuse of the #1 trolling tool punishable.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
That happen mostly in FFA

Yeah, that kind of explains everything.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Because you can aim or cancel an attack, but you can't cancel a firepot. As soon as you throw a firepot, it's free real estate for trolls to give you a huge amount of teamdamage and you can't stop them from doing that. Especially since it deals a lot of damage, all you need to have is a few friends to jump into the fire with you and boom your target went from 5% to 30% TD in a few seconds.

Sounds nitpicky. How feasible it is for this to become a common occurence so it would offset benefits of having at least some control over the number 1 trolling tool in the game? In Chiv it dealt much less damage and you could immediately tell who threw it at you because only MAAs had access to it. Here it deals a shit ton of damage and you might not even be able to tell who has it.

If I was very dedicated to trolling someone I could just run in front of him forever so he can't hit anyone, running around the map waiting for you to throw a firepot and do it close enough so I can reach it in time would probably get boring fast, especially when I can't force you to throw it, so I'm just wasting time if you don't do it.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
I'm going to stop you right there. One good example I have is a friend of mine who regularly gets kicked out even today for being good at the game. It came as far as being kicked 7 times in a row, locking him out of the game, despite the fact that he never said anything in the chat, troll or whatever and basically just tried to play.

Maybe he plays different modes than I did or maybe now it's different as Chiv seems to be on it's last legs player-count wise, dunno. I used to play TO in the evenings with mostly other veterans and it almost never happened to me or others except some rare post-sale occurrences when there was an abundance of noobs. When it happened others would usually let everyone know in chat as well.

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
Except people can intentionally get into your firepots and catapult shots to raise your teamdamage.

They can just as well run into your attacks if they want to do that, so I don't see how it would be any different than measuring melee-inflicted TD.

Issues and perceived issues with vote kick in Chiv and some problems it should try to address:

Potential server hijacking

Solution: Non-issue on bigger servers. Never experienced it anywhere tbh, but for smaller servers I guess it's better to let a rare hijack rather than implement a threshold which would allow trolls to do whatever they want on less populated ones.

Brigading and kicking people you don't like for nothing

Solution: it rarely ever happens, so just live with it and go somewhere else on the rare occasion it does. I think despite 10-20 attempts, I was successfully kicked just once in 1500 hours just because someone didn't like me, and it was right after a sale, so noobs voting yes probably didn't know what they were doing.

People not voting yes to kick obvious trolls and team killers

Solution: Show TD as it would be with 100% TD enabled. Chivalry showed the percentage after accounting for 50% TD, so people didn't realize that 33% TD meant that you hit a teammate once for every time you hit an enemy. Need to indicate to people which TK levels are still acceptable and which are not by some visual cue.

Firepots, catapults, fall damage etc. not being counted against your TD often made it very hard to kick trolls who went unnoticed by the enemy team.

Solution: obvious solution.

Don't know if devs are planning for the role of "king" as in Chiv, but TKing your king happened in Chivalry and since it was always the end of the round, it usually went unpunished.

Players have to do all the policing by themselves when admin is not around, resulting in "annoying" votes constantly popping up.

Solution: there should be a number of easy solutions to autokick or temporarily lock out a troll:

• Throwing a firepot in your own spawn should never happen.
• Landing, say, 4 hits in a row on teammates is almost impossible to do by accident.
• Having a high TD% after a certain damage threshold (so you don't get autokicked right after you join and hit a teammate by accident).

Some good ideas. Stamina loss on shot would be a welcome one that should help balance archer melee as well - there is no quick way to kill archers now because clock is always ticking as archers are usually close to their spawn and trying to go for the stamina drain is not viable at all as it takes ages with the current balance. They can yolo spam wounded people who get to them with Shorts Sword or Axe, stall for a few second until teammates come from spawn or just run away whenever they don't feel like fighting. If you get to an archer and he has 20 stamina, now that's an actual disadvantage.

Whatever value I put there with stay time command, nothing seems to change and tracers disappear after the default time (2 second-ish I think?)

Help?

Vote kick is necessary, but first maybe fix firepots so one person is not able to ruin the game for everybody else whenever he feels like it.

Attacks still hit before weapon touches you.

Hits still feel disconnected when they land on you, especially the ones at close to maximum range.

Parry return to idle animation is still garbage and infuriating, some people by now pretty much made the fake riposte the base of their playstyle from what I've seen.

Chamber morph still can be succesfully gambled by stab (happened LS regular vs LS Mordhau and no, it wasn't even a drag).

Short Sword or Qstaff I still have no idea what I'm supposed to do when fighting them except try to hard read (ie. guess) everything and riposte every time I get lucky with a parry.

Halberd anims still look like a slideshow when someone get close and does all the regular feinty-morphy stuff.

Now I get a clash when trying to punish Rapier/BS feint bots instead of getting hit, so this is an upgrade I guess?

Run away whack-a-mole game after someone falls for a feint is as strong as ever.

@das said:
People's complaints about side hits and attack manip looking weird is from the defender's POV, not the attacker's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't you say that no one in BR Mordhau did any waterfalls and wessexes and such back when they were really powerful in alpha and thus you didn't know what they looked like from the defender's side?

They looked broken because you could literally write your whole name in cursive over your opponent's head with a Halberd stab. There is a lot of middle ground between how it was back then and how it is now.

Also, with a 1h pokie-pokie you absolutely can hit around parries now with sprinting side to side while folded in half and looking at the ground for the confusion and unreadability points. Accomplishing the same via swing manipulation would just be healthier for the game, but now it only leads to wonky clanks like seen above.

It seems like the same problem in Chivalry, when a C-stab on Norse worked every time they parried to the wrong side, but on LS you would get more backparries than hits.

Can confirm.

I mean, those are separate problems - ghosts on strikes popped up on patch 18 (there are also ghosts on stabs after stab drags got stomped, but this is animation issue), while ghosts on returning to idle have been in game forever.

But yeah, can confirm both.

@kwazi said:
late ripostes blending parry animations + windup to create twisty wristy anims that are hard to see, and you can put them inside people's faces (the parry return to neutral + windup mixing up creates some wacky anims, i feel you need to follow some fighting game examples for animating)

Absolute cancer, yes. Nothing seems to improve in this department since the beginning.

One person who wants to throw firepots is still enough to turn the whole round into a shitfest. Area denial looks nice on paper, but in reality everyone just throws them into chokepoints or fighting people. Having to wait out fire at the spawn gate after every respawn is super fun.