Mordhau
 Tim_Fragmagnet
Knight
  • Likes received 3162
  • Date joined 15 Feb '16
  • Last seen 10 Nov

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Knight 1388 3162

It's official, horde mode is over, we're never getting it back. They took it away from us, we can't have fun anymore.

The only fun part of mordhau.
Gone.

Knight 1388 3162

@Euriloco said:
go play Skyrim

Few problems with this

  1. I have never played skyrim because I don't care
  2. Skyrim combat sucks
  3. Skyrim is boring
Knight 1388 3162

servers are currently being vaporized by a black hole

Knight 1388 3162

You start in a prison cell with nothing because you've been a bad boy.

You then have to make your way through the dungeon, piecing together your equipment as you go.

Naturally, the first bunch of enemies you fight are lightly equipped drunkards, why would they need anyone else to watch over your worthless incompetent ass.

But the AI gets better, and gets better things.

And since you're not fighting 600 AI at once, each individual fight can be with a far more competent bot, that can youknow. Parry.
So you're having a fight with this angery bot in a dark torchlit dungeon.

However, as you go through this dungeon, you notice.
You can only go down.

And maybe you can take a friend with you. Just be careful not to get separated. Who knows when you'll find each other again.

Knight 1388 3162

EZ change, when the bot count goes down low enough to show their location with icons,
they now sprint to chase you.

Knight 1388 3162

R E A P E R B O T

I mean, considering he has the power to easily 1 shot you, kinda feel like it'd be nice to have him have more visual uniqueness, also for the grim reaper meme.

Knight 1388 3162

Shield boys aren't even that hard

Just rapidly keep stabbing them
they block them all
stam out
and you win

Knight 1388 3162

@Lumi said:
I need a town full of peasants to kill with a sling. That is all.

That is included in the mode.

Peasants would be a sub objective within the bases.
As would freeing slaves.
Killing royal family
burning buildings
burning other stuff
breaking stuff
etc

Different maps, different themes, different sub objectives and methods of entry into the base.

Knight 1388 3162

horbe mobe wen

Knight 1388 3162

@Naleaus said:
The capture zone are then pointless because they do nothing. Especially if you have a bunch of them. The map and playercount isn't big enough for that, and the fighting will always centralize where the important stuff is. So you'd have fighting at both bases cause that's the only place anything happens, and maybe you'd collect a point for respawning along the way. Otherwise the entire middle of the map is just a waste.

Oh the capture zones still drain tickets.
And actually doing all the objectives is difficult when you have to spawn at your base and run across the entire map through all the cavalry, archers, ballistae, attacky bois moving towards your base, and TDM Bois in the midfield.

The midfield and relevant capture zones are a highly important platform from which you launch your attacks on the enemy base.

You may not need to have a capture zone connected to the enemy base to actually do the objectives there, but to capture a zone, it still needs to be connected to YOUR base.

It's a mix of mechanics that work together to provide a coherent experience.

You also seem to underestimate the number 64.

Reminder that certain capture zones can't be captured because they need to be linked.
So lets say there's 3 active zones.
18 players used on zones.
46 left for objectives.

Ok lets say 10 buildy boys, 5 from each team
36 left

Lets say we have 4 players of cavalry
32 left

lets say we have 4 manned ballistae
28 left

Lets say some mix of 20 players defending and attacking the objectives.
8 left

8 midfield boys just running around doing nothing seems fair.

Knight 1388 3162

@Naleaus said:
Wait, so capture points with side objectives? That most everyone including people you act like a condescending shit to already agrees would be good to have?

Lets say we have 1000 tickets

Destroy outer door - 100 tickets
Destroy inner door - 100 tickets
Complete all optional sub objectives within the base - 250 tickets (some amount of tickets per sub objective)
Destroy keep door - 50 tickets
Kill the king - 400 tickets
The team now has 100 tickets left

No, the capture zones are the side objectives, the capture zones are just there to please people like you who just want TDM, but since no one wants to play TDM, you instead play the objective mode while ignoring the objectives and just play TDM in the midfield.

Knight 1388 3162

@Naleaus said:
opinions are subjective

Time and time again
Good game design has been proven to be objective.

Anyone can have fun playing any game they wish, yes. That is their own personal experience, and influences their own personal opinion.

But for the general populace, no, good game design is absolutely objective.

Frontline is an objectively bad mode that tries to rely on a combat system that is catered more towards the experienced player.

The gameplay of your game matters far less than the gameplay of your game's game MODE.

Is it possible for a game's gameplay to be so good that it beats out a bad/boring mode? Sometimes, but more often than not, the bad/boring mode is just a platform for the gameplay of the game. You'll notice, games that do this, are exclusively shooters. Arma, Battlefield, or any arcade shooter really.

Having a game mode where you stand in a circle "doing nothing" is ok in a shooter. Because you're always actively doing something, you're actively taking cover and shooting at enemies from some distance away.
The game is always afoot.

Having a game mode where you stand in a circle and stare at a bunch of enemies and wait for them to get closer to you while LITERALLY doing nothing is BAD game design.

"Modes like Team Deathmatch are literally just combat though and people love them"
In arcade shooters, yes. However look at the health of the playerbase of mordhau, all we had was Team deathmatch, deathmatch, and skirmish, and a very low percentage of the people who actually had access to the game actually played it regularly. Literally just waiting for the next update to see the changes and then stop playing again.

They're waiting for a reason to play. They're waiting for a gamemode.

No one in the general populace cares how "complex" or "skill based" your combat system is.
They care about how good the "game" of the game is.

And that can be summed up quite simply

Team Objective good game.
Frontline bad game.

Compared to Team Objective, Frontline as we know it is already on the way out, and it will take the general populace of mordhau with it after launch.

Knight 1388 3162

Mode.png

This mode encourages unique loadouts for widely varied activities
This mode provides activities for all types of player
This mode provides enough activities for ALL 64 players.
This mode provides tug of war
This mode provides engaging objectives to strive for that can actually change the outcome of battle
This mode provides dope king fights
This mode provides sieges

This mode provides the feeling of a large scale battle
Because it is one.

Knight 1388 3162

@Lord Commander Guts said:
Running Simulator 2019 Edition (Just saying)

Chivalry's Team Objective had just as much running. If not more.

Yet people didn't complain.

The thing is, you actually fucking DID SHIT when you got to your destination.

There's a mixture you need to find with your game, how much running you have compared to how much shit you actually do and accomplish.

Team Objective was fairly well balanced with this.

In Frontline however, you spend a shitload of time running, while doing and accomplishing NOTHING.

The problem isn't the running.

The problem is that you don't get to fucking do anything.

Knight 1388 3162

You move your spawn closer to the end objective

Why do you HAVE to. It's an OPEN FIELD. Just run over and blow up their towers, it's not even that far away.

If you actually looked at the map, you'd notice you aren't moving your spawn much closer most of the time. As the majority of the movement is laterally across the map, instead of towards the enemy base.

You push the enemy back and move forward.

The cavalry spawnkilling my team, and the teammates sitting in the back trying to farm ballista kills or some shit, would argue otherwise.

""I raised a flag, I did something""

No, you didn't do shit. You stood in a circle.

In the context of the battle, you did nothing.

Knight 1388 3162

Ah yes, assuming you actually think about what you're talking about.
We can remove all instances of fighting players to simplify, as that's just a part of the game

Stand next to a cart

Doing so accomplishes something within the map. You are DOING something.

Attack bots

Doing so is an objective that progresses the map. You are DOING something.

Hit a wall

Doing so accomplishes something within the map. You are DOING something.

Stand next to a ram

Doing so is the objective and accomplishes something. You are DOING something.

Stand next to a tower

Doing so is the objective and accomplishes something. You are DOING something.

Pressing E

Yes breaking down a gate accomplishes something, surprise surprise. You are DOING something.

Throw stuff

Yeah that's how you burn down farms, you accomplish something here too. You are DOING something.

Run a lot on a boring map because combat wasn't centralized

Wait you actually think Citadel was boring? Wow.
Nah Citadel was one of the most exciting maps, it was just poorly balanced.

So if you changed the cap point to pressing E to raise a flag, or standing there till the trebs shoot, it's more fun? It's just flavor, but doesn't really add much besides distracting you from the wave of enemies on the way.

And what would raising this flag accomplish within the map? N O T H I N G.

What does standing in the circle actually accomplish within the map itself. N O T H I N G.

You see, you're LITERALLY missing the E N T I R E point.
What are you DOING while waiting for the wave of enemies that's on the way? NOTHING, YOU STAND THERE LIKE A LEMON AND JUST WATCH THE ENEMIES GET CLOSER.

You aren't DOING anything.

You aren't ACCOMPLISHING anything.

Neither within the context of the map/battle, nor in the literal sense within the circle.

The whole "stand in this circle" works alright in standard shooter games because you don't have to stand there and wait for the enemy to get closer.
No
You actively take cover, locate the enemy, and open fire.
That's why battlefield's conquest works for itself.

The FUNNY part, is Frontline isn't copying conquest.

Mordhau's Frontline, is a copy of Battlefield 1's Frontlines mode. A gamemode that died a month after its launch.

Knight 1388 3162

@Naleaus said:
What is exciting about standing next to a cart, ram, wall, trebuchet, etc? You do nothing besides stand there. The overall progression of the map had more to do with it, but the gameplay loop was mostly to force combat in centralized locations.

The gameplay loop was you actually accomplishing things on the field of battle

poison the water supply
kill their peasants
kill the royal family
break down the barricade
siege the castle
advance the siege towers
ram down the gate
burn their farms
free the slaves
charge up the stairs to break down the doors of the citadel so you can kill the false king

The gameplay loop of Frontline involves

Standing in a circle doing fuck all
Moving to the next circle
Standing in the next circle doing fuck all

It's literally TDM with Circles

It's uninteresting
uninspired
non engaging
not exciting
and will die in months

Knight 1388 3162

@Naleaus said:
The combat itself is the exciting part.

See, you say that.

But you're wrong.

Otherwise the playerbase of the closed alpha wouldn't be fucking dead.

No, what's exciting, is the actual gameplay of the main mode of the game.

It's why chivalry stayed alive for as long as it did.
Because Team Objective, was a very exciting, and extremely engaging gamemode.
It kept Chivalry alive, DESPITE the game having garbage servers, netcode, broken animations, and jank ass side effects of the combat that literally pushed new players away from the game.

Team Objective IS Chivalry

and if Frontline as we know it IS Mordhau, I don't want to play it.

Knight 1388 3162

Hmm yes, create all these irrelevent features and side missions that provide bonuses to your team while completely ignoring the actual main form of gameplay of the mode.

Ah yes the main form of gameplay in the mode.

Because standing in a circle doing L I T E R A L L Y N O T H I N G. Is the definition of highly exhilarating, adrenaline pumping, excitement providing, engaging gameplay.

It's the kind of gameplay that a high tier gamemode that lives for YEARS, contains.

No, it's fucking sarcasm. The mode as it stands will literally die within months.

All the time you spend running around would be FINE, if you actually DID SOMETHING when you got to your destination.

Knight 1388 3162

mfw bodkin just wants to turn it into battlefield and completely misses the entire point of why the mode is boring.