If the skill gap is really that bad, then a good solution might be to advertise (in tutorials / guides) that 240 is more intuitive but worse, whereas binds are less intuitive than better.
Doing it like this is fine; the noobs who just want the 240 feel will know upfront what they’re choosing and won’t complain as much when they get rekt by the binds users. Having alternative control schemes, some of which are superior, is totally fine and has worked in a lot of other games so I don’t think either needs to be removed.
Final pro tip, it’s not hard to relearn the other system even with a few hundred hours in the game. I have about 250 hours in total, and for the first 100 I was using 240 but then swapped to binds. So don’t feel like switching is too much of a stretch.
TL;DR People won’t be salty about the skill gap if it’s made clear up front that 240 is inferior (at least as it exists at the moment).
@June said: Last 15% of strike release tracers now no longer deal damage
Good idea, poorly implemented.
I'm fairly sure that a dev mentioned that they were going to tone down this effect. I'm not too sure what a good animation/effect to notify of this happening would actually look like, but if a good one were found then I wouldn't object.
Now slash chambers are down to 200ms. Factor in ping plus the fact that drags don't really beat parries but rek chambers makes this the first stage of making chambering obsolete.
From what I've seen, people are still stubbornly chambering a lot, so I'd dispute that they're going to become "obselete". There seems to be a bit of a fundamental disagreement between those who think that chambers should be easy enough to reliably use on almost every attack in a high level duel, and those who think that they shouldn't. I personally prefer the latter partly since the alternative would makes 1vX totally cancerous. Chambers should have a relatively high risk. If I know you're going to try and chamber every attack, that should make the duel very easy for me. On the last patch, that was not the case at all, and chambering every hit was a legitimate strategy. I'd prefer to increase the risk, like it is now, and possibly increase the reward too - that makes the game much more varied and fun than a chamber spam war where whoever has the lowest combined reaction time and ping wins by default.
Riposte feints
Sort of agree here. One of the reasons that chamber feints arent too bad to deal with is because you already know the angle that the feint will come from, which makes counter-chambering a lot easier. With riposte feints no such counter is available. Additionally, since most of the riposte animations are totally shit (just do an alt-overhead riposte on halberd and watch the arms clip through eachother) the animations can be very difficult to read.
The fact that I can take any weapon, release a stab on the right side of someone and bring it all the way around and hit them on the left is ridiculous. Of course I'm not saying they should be removed, just toned down.
If stabs are really easy to chamber then it just sort of becomes pointless to stab or stab feint. So there should be a fair amount of room for stab dragging, IMO.
@Sumerian said:
Thank you for the guide. I'm trying this on my Amazon Lightsail Server but the OS is Amazon Linux and I'm having trouble with installing dependencies.
Does anyone knows how to install these dependencies on Amazon Linux? (Amazon Linux uses YUM install method)
I would guess that most of the yum packages have the same name, so you should just be able to do sudo yum install x (where x is the name of the package) for each of those I listed. Some of them might have slightly different names, but you should still be able to hunt them down (you can search for them like this).
@Alphonse said:
The reasons you listed mostly apply to the sound playing out of sync.
Let me simplify my proposal so maybe it's easier to understand.
The grunt Im proposing is like 500ms long, roughly the length of a release phase for a 2H. It starts really high (caps) and decreases in intensity (lower case). Something like HHHAAGHHNNNNNNnnnnnnnnnggggg.
When the attack goes into release, you hear the first part of the grunt at full volume (this is what currently exists). If a set of known angle changes occur MID RELEASE, the game plays the rest of the grunt (the nnnnng lower in intensity). This would indicate a decel or weird drag.
I don't understand how this could possibly be confusing while you're fighting an opponent. If no such change in angle is detected, the grunt is kept short. Like what's already in the game.
If this is still too hard to comprehend I might edit a short video to illustrate it better.
And what use would this be? At the point when the grunt becomes useful, you are already in a position whereby you can just look at the animation to see if they are decelerating. You've probably already pressed parry or done whatever you're planning on doing by this point, so I really don't see how this would be at all useful, and probably just obnoxious and annoying to have this sound play all the time.
@Alphonse said:
Also, in regards to false positives and whatnot... The game already tricks you with sound queues. You hear a grunt and the other guy misses. Maybe you panic parried cuz your muscle memory is if sound > rmb. Or you hear a grunt and get hit a long time later (via dragging).
What? That's not the same thing. Grunting indicates that the player hasn't feinted. This is 100% reliable. Grunting is not supposed to indicate that you will get hit, just that they haven't feinted. The grunt you're proposing will not be even close to 100% reliable for the reasons I mentioned. If your muscle memory is such that you hear the sound and then RMB, that's your own fault, because you're misinterpreting what the grunt is telling you.
There definitely needs to be some kind of queue for attacks, would help massively in chambering fast weapons. Sometimes you input the attack a tiny bit too early and get caught out because of this. Another thing with chambering is that if you get hit by a fast weapon and they combo you, you probably won't be able to chamber the second attack because you're still flinched. I wonder if flinch duration could be proportional to the speed of the weapon you got hit by - that would make things a lot less frustrating when playing against a spammy weapon.
Leg hits feel way too strong ATM, it just makes you very difficult to chamber and you have to put a lot more effort into parrying than you otherwise would. But more importantly it makes the game look pretty silly, what with everyone groundsniffing around the place in order to aim for the legs. The obvious solution would be to increase the vertical parry and chamber angle so that you don't have to look as far down to deal with them.
Whether you get a slow kick or a fast kick feels a bit stochastic (although maybe that's just me not being used to it). There are definitely situations where I feel a bit cheated by getting a slow kick.
Absolutely agree with the team flinch / team damage / projectile rape criticism. Nothing worse than getting smacked by a teammate in official servers who can't aim. I know these things will improve over time, but it's still worth mentioning as being annoying in the short term.
@Alphonse said:
Okay, to answer your question I'll have to walltext a bit and there might be a lot inaccuracies since I'm not exactly a programmer (stop reading this if this is too off-putting for some of you). Bear with me and call me out if I'm spouting nonsense though.
I couldn't find any debug command relevant to the swing and the tracers themselves, so I'm not entirely sure how this works in Mordhau. In case there's some geometric analysis done by the client (considering collisions between the tracers of 2 different people attacking already tell you if you chamber, clash or whatever), I'm sure it shouldn't be hard to tell a fast drag from a decel one through code (I also think there might be something in the game because Marox mentioned something about "internal angle changes" on one of the recent changelogs, but I'm not 100% sure what this referred to).
I don't see any way of reliably detecting decelerated drags without false positives or false negatives. What specifically do you mean by the "internal angle changes"? I'm almost certain this was not related to dragging but something like chambering or parrying. Another thing you're requiring is that the drag be detected before the release phase (so that the grunt can play). This will be even more difficult to achieve since you could simply start an attack and manipulate it while it's in the release phase and so it hits them later. Especially if the grunt noise leads you to believe that they aren't dragging, this will be very confusing.
One thing that could be possible would be to add a damage modifier to the swing so that whenever you turn against the direction of the attack it does less damage. There are a couple of issues with this, however: You can still do decelerated drags by starting your swing really wide (using footwork) and then bringing it back in to the body. This may be more obvious to see but the issue still remains. Secondly, this has severe implications for 1vX play - any change that is designed to limit your movement is going to make teamplay more difficult and unintuitive, and that's not good. Another issue is that this analysis would have to be done at the point of impact so changing the grunt sound would not be possible.
I really don't see any way of achieving what you're describing without severe side effects or other bad tradeoffs.
Uh, what's this whole fuss about? 99% of the time if I fail to parry a drag it's my own fault and I could have reasonably adjusted in such as a way to avoid taking the hit. You seem to be arguing that since parrying drags requires inhuman reaction time (which it doesn't, unless I'm misunderstanding you, because you can parry at the start of release and they will have a very small window in which to hit you reliably), that therefore (certain?) drags are overpowered. That's not my experience at all to be quite honest, as I explained before.
If you're telling me that drags cannot consistently be reacted to and yet I can consistently react to them, then what you're saying is false.
I do think that 'wessex' drags should probably be removed if at all possible though. They do look pretty retarded and unrealistic to the point where it breaks immersion. I think normal drags look fine, though, if a bit clunky (although that's a price I'm willing to pay).
On chambers - the big issue with chambers for me is the leg hits. If somebody leg hits you it's way too hard to reliably chamber that, and I think that needs to change. Normal decellerated drags should be the hard counter to chambers but at the moment horizontal or overhead leg hits are probably the most effective and reliable counter IMO. That doesn't mean we need to nerf drags it means we need to buff chambers. That all said, I do think some of the overhead leg drags are a bit difficult to react to and unintuitive too.
I don't think drags need any kind of fundamental reworking, maybe just number tweaks.
No thanks. Playing against shields is already monotonous as fuck because it instantly removes the option of dragging or feinting or morphing or body feinting to get hits in. Let's not make any other weapons like that please.
All shield players tend to have the same playstyle and making this change would just bring that across to 2H.
Feints already have enough of a counter, we don't need this mechanic to deal with feints. It's just silly to have on every weapon.
This has been going on for a while now; he's already scammed at least one person out of their money. I've had about 10 people come to me over the past few weeks saying that they've been contacted by this person so please do watch out. If you want be certain that it's me then here's my profile on steam:
He has also been contacting people on Discord (using the same username + avatar that I do). My Discord ID is Vin¢#1293. If you could report his profile for impersonation, that would be much appreciated.
If you have been contacted by this person, please post the chat logs here (or PM them to me) if you have them.
I have no idea why anybody would impersonate me.
EDIT: Looks like he gave up after seeing this post. I saved his SteamID from before (incase he did just this) but he's changed his custom URL and name and avatar, so I can only assume he's not impersonating me anymore.
Reporting his account would still be a useful thing to do, however.
@ANALGRINDER said:
Is all about realism and fun, these are the most important factors in this game... and with the feature that i requested here you reach this 100% realistic and fun medieval game.
@nohbdy said:
Also, a defensive "fighting" style is already much more viable due to chambers, but it should really never be equally as viable as offense. You win fights by attacking, so using a style that sacrifices the initiative by default is objectively counterproductive.
Strongly disagree. Chambers are inherently aggressive because of the risk factor associated in executing them.
Chiv feints aren't 25 stamina, IIRC they're about half that.
As for morphs: It's a little hard to tell whether they're balanced ATM. I think we'll have to wait and see if chamber gets changed, because the interplay between chambers and morphs is quite important. Buffing chambers would also nerf feinting, which seems to be what you want.
7 Jun
Vin¢If the skill gap is really that bad, then a good solution might be to advertise (in tutorials / guides) that 240 is more intuitive but worse, whereas binds are less intuitive than better.
Doing it like this is fine; the noobs who just want the 240 feel will know upfront what they’re choosing and won’t complain as much when they get rekt by the binds users. Having alternative control schemes, some of which are superior, is totally fine and has worked in a lot of other games so I don’t think either needs to be removed.
Final pro tip, it’s not hard to relearn the other system even with a few hundred hours in the game. I have about 250 hours in total, and for the first 100 I was using 240 but then swapped to binds. So don’t feel like switching is too much of a stretch.
TL;DR People won’t be salty about the skill gap if it’s made clear up front that 240 is inferior (at least as it exists at the moment).
- 1
27 Jan
Vin¢Not sure if this is the same guy
http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198073324432
- 1
21 Dec '17
Vin¢I'm fairly sure that a dev mentioned that they were going to tone down this effect. I'm not too sure what a good animation/effect to notify of this happening would actually look like, but if a good one were found then I wouldn't object.
From what I've seen, people are still stubbornly chambering a lot, so I'd dispute that they're going to become "obselete". There seems to be a bit of a fundamental disagreement between those who think that chambers should be easy enough to reliably use on almost every attack in a high level duel, and those who think that they shouldn't. I personally prefer the latter partly since the alternative would makes 1vX totally cancerous. Chambers should have a relatively high risk. If I know you're going to try and chamber every attack, that should make the duel very easy for me. On the last patch, that was not the case at all, and chambering every hit was a legitimate strategy. I'd prefer to increase the risk, like it is now, and possibly increase the reward too - that makes the game much more varied and fun than a chamber spam war where whoever has the lowest combined reaction time and ping wins by default.
Sort of agree here. One of the reasons that chamber feints arent too bad to deal with is because you already know the angle that the feint will come from, which makes counter-chambering a lot easier. With riposte feints no such counter is available. Additionally, since most of the riposte animations are totally shit (just do an alt-overhead riposte on halberd and watch the arms clip through eachother) the animations can be very difficult to read.
If stabs are really easy to chamber then it just sort of becomes pointless to stab or stab feint. So there should be a fair amount of room for stab dragging, IMO.
4 Nov '17
Vin¢Peacerer, you're the biggest elitist on these forums. Next time try making an actual argument instead of bitching about the playerbase.
21 Oct '17
Vin¢I would guess that most of the yum packages have the same name, so you should just be able to do
sudo yum install x(wherexis the name of the package) for each of those I listed. Some of them might have slightly different names, but you should still be able to hunt them down (you can search for them like this).14 Oct '17
Vin¢Yeah, this would be horrible. Much better to let the devs balance it than divide the community, that should only be done as a last resort tbh.
7 Oct '17
Vin¢And what use would this be? At the point when the grunt becomes useful, you are already in a position whereby you can just look at the animation to see if they are decelerating. You've probably already pressed parry or done whatever you're planning on doing by this point, so I really don't see how this would be at all useful, and probably just obnoxious and annoying to have this sound play all the time.
- 1
7 Oct '17
Vin¢What? That's not the same thing. Grunting indicates that the player hasn't feinted. This is 100% reliable. Grunting is not supposed to indicate that you will get hit, just that they haven't feinted. The grunt you're proposing will not be even close to 100% reliable for the reasons I mentioned. If your muscle memory is such that you hear the sound and then RMB, that's your own fault, because you're misinterpreting what the grunt is telling you.
- 2
7 Oct '17
Vin¢Agree with most of what's been said here.
7 Oct '17
Vin¢I don't see any way of reliably detecting decelerated drags without false positives or false negatives. What specifically do you mean by the "internal angle changes"? I'm almost certain this was not related to dragging but something like chambering or parrying. Another thing you're requiring is that the drag be detected before the release phase (so that the grunt can play). This will be even more difficult to achieve since you could simply start an attack and manipulate it while it's in the release phase and so it hits them later. Especially if the grunt noise leads you to believe that they aren't dragging, this will be very confusing.
One thing that could be possible would be to add a damage modifier to the swing so that whenever you turn against the direction of the attack it does less damage. There are a couple of issues with this, however: You can still do decelerated drags by starting your swing really wide (using footwork) and then bringing it back in to the body. This may be more obvious to see but the issue still remains. Secondly, this has severe implications for 1vX play - any change that is designed to limit your movement is going to make teamplay more difficult and unintuitive, and that's not good. Another issue is that this analysis would have to be done at the point of impact so changing the grunt sound would not be possible.
I really don't see any way of achieving what you're describing without severe side effects or other bad tradeoffs.
5 Oct '17
Vin¢Uh, what's this whole fuss about? 99% of the time if I fail to parry a drag it's my own fault and I could have reasonably adjusted in such as a way to avoid taking the hit. You seem to be arguing that since parrying drags requires inhuman reaction time (which it doesn't, unless I'm misunderstanding you, because you can parry at the start of release and they will have a very small window in which to hit you reliably), that therefore (certain?) drags are overpowered. That's not my experience at all to be quite honest, as I explained before.
If you're telling me that drags cannot consistently be reacted to and yet I can consistently react to them, then what you're saying is false.
I do think that 'wessex' drags should probably be removed if at all possible though. They do look pretty retarded and unrealistic to the point where it breaks immersion. I think normal drags look fine, though, if a bit clunky (although that's a price I'm willing to pay).
On chambers - the big issue with chambers for me is the leg hits. If somebody leg hits you it's way too hard to reliably chamber that, and I think that needs to change. Normal decellerated drags should be the hard counter to chambers but at the moment horizontal or overhead leg hits are probably the most effective and reliable counter IMO. That doesn't mean we need to nerf drags it means we need to buff chambers. That all said, I do think some of the overhead leg drags are a bit difficult to react to and unintuitive too.
I don't think drags need any kind of fundamental reworking, maybe just number tweaks.
1 Oct '17
Vin¢One of your lines is missing an 'M' in 'MapRotation'
- 2
30 Sep '17
Vin¢No thanks. Playing against shields is already monotonous as fuck because it instantly removes the option of dragging or feinting or morphing or body feinting to get hits in. Let's not make any other weapons like that please.
All shield players tend to have the same playstyle and making this change would just bring that across to 2H.
Feints already have enough of a counter, we don't need this mechanic to deal with feints. It's just silly to have on every weapon.
27 Sep '17
Vin¢MFW Windows Server
- 5
23 Sep '17
Vin¢This has been going on for a while now; he's already scammed at least one person out of their money. I've had about 10 people come to me over the past few weeks saying that they've been contacted by this person so please do watch out. If you want be certain that it's me then here's my profile on steam:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/vincdg/
For comparison, here is the scammer's profile:
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198193373242
He has also been contacting people on Discord (using the same username + avatar that I do). My Discord ID is Vin¢#1293. If you could report his profile for impersonation, that would be much appreciated.
If you have been contacted by this person, please post the chat logs here (or PM them to me) if you have them.
I have no idea why anybody would impersonate me.
EDIT: Looks like he gave up after seeing this post. I saved his SteamID from before (incase he did just this) but he's changed his custom URL and name and avatar, so I can only assume he's not impersonating me anymore.
Reporting his account would still be a useful thing to do, however.
17 Sep '17
Vin¢100% realistic after this change? Really?
- 1
17 Sep '17
Vin¢Strongly disagree. Chambers are inherently aggressive because of the risk factor associated in executing them.
- 2
17 Sep '17
Vin¢Chiv feints aren't 25 stamina, IIRC they're about half that.
As for morphs: It's a little hard to tell whether they're balanced ATM. I think we'll have to wait and see if chamber gets changed, because the interplay between chambers and morphs is quite important. Buffing chambers would also nerf feinting, which seems to be what you want.
14 Sep '17
Vin¢Dominator told me it.
13 Sep '17
Vin¢If you wish to set up a server manually, I have written a short guide for how to do so on Linux here.