Mordhau
 Uktuli
Mercenary
  • Likes received 50
  • Date joined 1 May '17
  • Last seen 19 Jun

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Mercenary 51 50
  • 29 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@TwistedFox said:
It's not a gamble if you know you'll hit first

While I often get hit during a riposte, I regularly catch people as well. Most of the people doing this definitely are NOT sure that they'll hit first. They're taking a calculated risk and hoping for the best, i.e. gambling.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 28 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Monsteri said:
If the delay was increased, you couldn't chamber any ripostes

Yeah, that's a good point. I don't think I've ever had a riposte chambered as it is anyway, but the ability to do it should exist.

How do you reduce the benefits of gambling with fast weapons when there are no hit trades? I don't know. Maybe it's not a problem for most people, but I fucking hate getting flinched during my riposte.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 28 Sep '17
 Uktuli

If you think someone is straight up gamble spamming you, just riposte and accel every single time. If they are consistently reading everything you do and are still being aggressive, they are just good tbh.

I can't speak for the devs obviously, but to me it seems that they don't want stale turn taking combat. Just because you parried doesn't automatically give you initiative. It can if you riposte accel, but if you hesitate too much, fuck up your footwork, or you mouse aim is all over the place you should be punished for that by an experienced player imho.

This is true. It's usually good players using good footwork that fuck me up by circling and attacking the instant they're parried. Having said that, I still think the delay to attack after being parried should be increased a bit.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 28 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Pred said:
Gambling is off the charts, lol.

  • some weapons can gamble a riposte
  • always first hit flinch so gambling super hard with fast weapons comes with no risk of a bad trade
  • no recovery after getting parried
  • slashes outspeed stabs
  • gambling into attacks and FTPing

This is probably my biggest problem with the game right now.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 28 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Huggles said:

@.Bones said:
Blocking indefinitely sounds like a bad idea, but decreasing time between parries sounds legit

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

that is what made chivalry bullshit, people would panic parry and not get punished for it. If you don't want to get hit, have composure and don't panic.

While I agree with you, I have no idea what you're talking about regarding Chivalry. I can't begin to count the number of times I was punished and killed after a panic parry. Panic parries killed me more than anything else did until I got them under control, which only took around 200 hours or so.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Frise said:

@Uktuli said:
If I start a chamber during early release on a slash, I get hit. If I wait until mid to late release, it gets chambered. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. How long at the most does the release phase last? Are you saying that if I initiate a chamber at any time during the release phase it will be successful? That hasn't been my experience.

The chamber window starts immediatly after you input your attack, so you should be able to chamber an attack at any moment during its release, provided you time it right. If you have problems with this maybe it's a ping issue, or maybe you're not getting the angle right, which is hard to do tbh.

Hmm, thanks. Maybe I'm misreading the transition between windup and release and attempting to chamber during late windup. I'll have to experiment more.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Frise said:

What do you mean 'late'? The chamber window is 200ms after inputting an attack. If you mean the window in which an attack can be chambered, then that one is exactly the same as the release phase, so I don't understand what you mean by "moved to early release".

Accelerated ripostes and chambers are definitely chamberable, I do it rather consistently, disregarding the times when the windup animations are misleading. If you can't do it then remember to keep your distance and just practice, practice, practice.

If I start a chamber during early release on a slash, I get hit. If I wait until mid to late release, it gets chambered. Maybe I'm doing something wrong. How long at the most does the release phase last? Are you saying that if I initiate a chamber at any time during the release phase it will be successful? That hasn't been my experience.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

The window isn't the problem, the problem are the misleading windup animations, which the devs are already fixing.

The chamber window feels unintuitively late to me. If it doesn't need to be increased, I'd like to see it moved to early release. Also, the release phase of some, if not most accelerated strikes, and especially accelerated ripostes, happens way too fast for me to ever chamber, no matter how much practice I get.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 1
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

First of all im not an elite, im an average player.. And to be good at this game, one needs to have some experience and training.

I agree with anims and windup/releases but I dont agree with the window for chambers being increased.

I think chamber windows are fine because I have no trouble chambering (when I press the right key), and sometimes it involves looking more towards where the swing is going and that makes it more fun. If chambers will be as big as parry, all you need to do is chamber without looking at it which will simply be too dull. And that is how parry is now.

If you really can consistently chamber anything but a stab when fighting a competent player, you are an elite player. I can't think of a single person I've dueled who has.

Just to clarify, I'm talking about chambering during an actual fight vs someone who's moving and manipulating their swings.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 1
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Frise said:

@Uktuli said:

I think, make the parry window smallers, same like the chamber window. That could balance it. Or make riposts slower. I dont know.

Are you seriously arguing to make parries more difficult instead of making chambering easier? Who is the target audience for this game? The 0.01%?

At least he gives a reason for his opinion. You should try that.

My reasoning should be easy to infer: the game should be accessible to more than just an elite few. Making parries more difficult to perform is not the way to incentivize chambers.

Windup animations should more obviously telegraph each strike; the chamber window should be increased; and windup/release timings should be tweaked.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

I think, make the parry window smallers, same like the chamber window. That could balance it. Or make riposts slower. I dont know.

Are you seriously arguing to make parries more difficult instead of making chambering easier? Who is the target audience for this game? The 0.01%?

Mercenary 51 50
  • 27 Sep '17
 Uktuli

This is my whole point. Chambering is such a nice mechanic but there's really not much point to using it when you can kill people easier with the other mechanics without taking the risk of getting hit while trying to chamber.

Chambering should be a little easier to pull off, not more rewarding when you do. As it is, probably 10% or less of the player base is going to be able to consistently chamber anything but a stab, even after extensive practice. I know I won't be able to; my reflexes just aren't what they used to be.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 2
  • 21 Sep '17
 Uktuli

You can also kill the bot

Yeah, but that requires opening up the console and turning damage back on first. Then you have to turn it off again when you spawn a new bot. I just want to be able to endlessly chamber a bot without interruption.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 1
  • 21 Sep '17
 Uktuli

The damage toggle is great for practice, but please add the ability to toggle stamina drain as well. It doesn't take long for a bot to drop its weapon. At that point you have to remove it and add another.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 18 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Monsteri said:
You should be completely fine on normal ripostes, the parry recovery time is 300ms (afaik) there is no chance that they will enter release phase before you do if they attack to your riposte. If you miss the riposte window, then they can indeed get the first hit with the faster weapon. I wouldn't want to increase the recovery time much, because then it becomes impossible to chamber ripostes.

Yeah, maybe I'm just missing the riposte more often than I realize. Or maybe I'm trying to drag a riposte too often instead of simply accelerating it. Thanks!

Mercenary 51 50
  • 18 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@Sir Zombie said:
Kicking a really spamming opponent usually works well

Can you riposte with a kick? I've never tried.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 18 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@ThunderDuck said:
Swing manipulation is a big part of games of this genre. You'll get used to it.

Having come here from Chivalry, I understand drags. But if the only way to beat an aggressive opponent to the punch after parrying him is to accelerate a riposte, something's wrong.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 1
  • 18 Sep '17
 Uktuli

Delay to attack after being parried should be increased. With a slower weapon equipped, I can get hit by the player I just parried before my riposte can even go through. And if you slightly miss the riposte window vs an aggressive player and simply attack? Good luck.

As it is, you can relentlessly attack after getting parried and still flinch all but the best players.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 17 Sep '17
 Uktuli

I went for the chamber on it. When you see a stab wind up, going for a chamber will beat both a real stab or a feint. The only thing that beats somebody going for a chamber on your stab is morphing. Stabs are much easier to chamber than slashes and I'm already seeing some people understand them enough to chamber back and forth against one another.

Are you really starting the chamber during windup? Whenever I try to chamber too early I just end up getting hit. The chamber window is much later than I expected. I can only successfully chamber if I wait until release. And on a slash, my chambers only work if I start it during mid-release, which is way past the point where a feint happens. At that point I've already avoided falling for the feint. I wish it worked like you're saying, as being able to initiate a chamber during windup would punish feints.

I'm not even here to bitch about feints. I'm just trying to figure out the mechanics of chambering.

Mercenary 51 50
  • 3
  • 17 Sep '17
 Uktuli

@nohbdy said:

@Uktuli said:

@StoopKid said:

@Uktuli said:
I don't really understand how chambering counters feints. I thought it would before actually playing, but you have to wait until mid to late release to reliably chamber. If you're waiting that long, you've already avoided falling for the feint.

I go for the chamber on his stab feint and flinch him before he can hit me right here

But if that had been an actual attack your "chamber" would have failed and you would have been hit.

No... he would have chambered it.

Yeah, actually, you're right, if he had followed through with the attack your "chamber" would have worked. Having said that, you saw him feint and then attacked; it wasn't actually a chamber.

All you really did was delay your parry and then attack when you saw him feint.

He didn't parry. He clearly went for a chamber. Also, you can't do that (wait to see your opponent feint, then attack after you react to it) unless you have a significantly faster weapon, which he didn't.

I never said he parried. I said, you waited for a release that didn't happen because he feinted and then you attacked.

If the chamber window happened during windup instead of release it would counter feints. As it is, chambering has pretty much nothing to do with feints; you're still just waiting for release to decide whether to parry or attack.

Why the fuck is this mechanic so hard for people to understand

Well, explain it to me then. The only relationship between feinting and chambering that I can see is that chambering teaches you to wait until a weapon releases to respond. At that point though, you're not even chambering anything, you're just attacking. Maybe I'm just tired and being stupid; please explain how chambering directly counters feinting instead of simply expressing exasperation at my inability to understand.