@Punzybobo said:






look guis i make jon sinew from game on trone!!!!!!!

holy fuck breastplate stretchers actually exist

@Jax said:
I'll see what the team thinks about this, not a bad idea Bang.

I think having some ambiguity during fights is healthy, I don't think that initiative should be purely 'black and white' or binary - it should be varying degrees of initiative based on weapon matchups/timings and what actions you're actually doing. That being said, I think that initiative can be a little too hard to determine at the moment and lead to excessive gambles/spam.

We tried the high lockout patch already. It was trash and one of the worst builds in the game.

@Frise said:
speak about lockouts, is the attack lockout after getting chambered getting looked at? You know, how you can throw an attack almost instantly after getting chambered and it even happens on accident?

I think the lockout for being chambered is way too low (does it even exist?) and the lockout for being parried is too high.

@Bang said:

@ÐMontyleGueux said:
How will a bigger parry lockout buff 1vX ?

When you parry your opponent, they'll have to wait a bit longer before they can attack you again. It allows you to parry two/three attacks and retaliate rather than get perpetually flinched/spammed to death.

The only reason parry lockout is as short as it is, is because you needed to be able to chamber ripostes, since ripostes were once feintable. But ripostes are no longer feintable and we still have this remnant parry lockout. The reason chiv 1vX worked without hyper armor was because of the longer parry parry lockout, and the increased time to retaliate.

This goes both ways. These changes are never explicitly a buff for certain people. Longer party lockout also harms the 1 as he must hold attention on someone who is not actively doing anything and cannot target switch after an attack.

I like the patch a lot, def the best state of the game so far in terms of raw fun I think. Finally got the chance to play for a few hours straight, just a few things I noticed I don't really like as much.

• Not sure if it has been changed but it feels like attack lockout is way too high now.

• A lot of windup changes that were made slower feel very sluggish and overall not pleasant.

• Shield seems OP, should probably nerf the depth of its parrybox.

• Not sure of this but I think the new chamber window is like way too large and it feels very weird but this might just need adjustment from my end.

I like a lot about the patch but I think the biggest change for the better is how hits feel. Everything just feels so much more meaty and satisfying now compared to before.

I think the real thing to focus on to make combat perfect imho is how to incorporate swing manipulation more while making it look good and overall try to make the gameplay more active and discourage passive play. I think slowing down a lot of windups makes the game feel more sluggish and meh. Same deal with the big lockout now. And combos just feel slow as well. Meanwhile, there's a lot of things that feel too fast almost. Chambers with a lot of weapons are like lightning. Which doesn't make sense considering chambering is easy now.

Also change jump pls. There's just something about it that looks and feels so wrong. It looks bad and feels bad. I think we need a more stylistic jump animation that looks like it is intended to be threatening and used in combat. Maybe screw around with the hang time of it as well, height, etc. Jump just needs a lot of changes tbh. Idk how to describe it, like jump stabs in chivalry just feel so much better. They also don't look as awkward.

Mordhau is way less forgiving for noobs imo due to the absence of hit trades and more ways to deal with feints.

In chiv feinting being incredibly easy to execute yet hard to read and being able to do damage despite fucking up (trades) were extremely noob friendly mechanics. It allowed any average joe to land a hit on a veteran player by just sow stab feinting and having an exorcism with their mouse or smthn. Or just use norse. In mordhau the only noob friendly mechanic is chambering to essentially avoid reading but it is inherently detrimental now so...and in a way it is also not noob friendly as a far more experienced player can not give a fuck about stamina at all and come out on top due to proper positioning and pressuring and breaking to regen stamina mid fight.

I think if mordhau wants to look and feel even more fun than it is now the devs should focus a lot on swing manipulation and try to make it as fun and fluid as possible while making it look better. The appeal to me in these types of games was always feeling like I was the main driver of my attacks as monsteri said, however it seems to me that the state of the game is pretty damn good atm. It would be really cool to see swing manipulation revamped and made more vital though.

Those fights weren't really interesting at all. Extraordinarily boring to watch. Mordhau is a huge improvement for sure. Trix's latest video makes people really want to play the game. Stouty's duels in chiv would prob put people to sleep tbh.

@Monsteri said:
The biggest draw to this game will be wanting to experience sword fighting perhaps not as it were, but to feel like you are swinging your sword as a character of some medieval description. To capture that feeling is essential for player retention, doesn't really matter which mechanic comes on top to achieve that; noobs don't know and they don't care. Immersion is what drives every new player forward while they still have no grasp on the mechanics. This should carry them to 40 hours or so, and at this point they should be comfortable enough with the mechanics to get interested in the depth they have to offer. Objectively speaking though, if the game captures the feeling of being a medieval warrior it's going to keep players far more invested at any hour count.

Well, I had written a huge essay halfway through but it's getting very late and no one's gonna read it anyways, so here's the broad reasoning and suggested changes instead:

• Neither extreme will look like any kind of real fight, but heavy swing manipulation will feel more like actually being the force behind your attacks

• However, very freeform swing manipulation tends to feel broken from the defender's perspective

• Offensive feints take away from the feeling of a medieval fight, the actions taken are illogical from outsider perspective

• Beginner and intermediate players will likely hate feints, chambers technically counter but then morphs which are mostly risk-free and look similar to feints counter chambers -> constant guessing game until hard reading is obtained

• At this point in development cycle any broader redesigns of combat systems are unlikely

• Scale of the main gamemode will carry beginner immersion as long as there are some mediocre defensive crutches and it doesn't look ridiculous

• Goal: Push current systems as much as possible to generate bigger roleplay status

Changes:

• Much more distinct windup anims, more unique windups, much more flair especially in the combo animations
• Make morphs and feints look as different from each other as possible
  ----> morphs; fluid
  ----> feints; snappy, coarse
  Add a very fast, violent feint animation that resembles a fake attack, a little extension of the arms meant to spook enemy
• Reduce morph window
• Decrease depth of parrybox but increase the width
• Only register the parry once it connects with the playermodel
• If this results in POV issues, add an extra pane strictly in front of the character that registers parry immediatly
• Crazy 3AM idea, make parry wider when crouching but it costs more stamina and reduces knockback
• Give stabs 25ms release back
• Reduce swing chamber window by 25ms
• Reduce stab chamber window by 50ms
• Alternative crazy 3AM idea: remove the counterattack from stab chambers so it becomes an even gamble - if you guess right, well, you probably hit him or forced a ftp, if you guessed wrong you still defended yourself from a potential stab feint and have soft initiative. Stab chambers with these windows just feel off to me and especially late chamber is some weird shit that even as the attacker I can't expect.

Hmm I hope I still agree with all this when I wake up

I agree with the first half. Disagree with the specific changes.

I think it is silly to think the game will ever look realistic with free form combat. It just has to look like people are being aggressive and fighting in real time as opposed to being passive and taking turns. Will never look remotely historical accurate.

What Monsteri said about swing manipulation making you feel more engaged in the combat and like you are the main driver behind the attack instead of doing some pre-scripted move is 100% true and the biggest thing I like about drags. I always kind of viewed feints as a necessary evil as opposed to an interesting game mechanic. I just don't feel as satisfied following up after a feint as I do pulling off a side stab or side overhead.

Fundamentally, you "read" a feint by doing nothing. If the best way to deal with a move is doing nothing, it isn't really engaging.

idk why you would even want this tho tbh. Straight disadvantage as it limits footwork/attack possibilities. Will def be an inferior experience all in all and I advise against this control scheme.

@Pred said:

@Huggles said:
"I don't like feints because they remove back and forth exchanges that look and feel like a sick sword fight."

ok, fine

"Increase clashes are bad."

wait wut

You don't see the difference between an exchange of chambers, chamber morphs and chamber feints and a button mashing contest of clashes?

In past patches, chamber exchanges had the same staring at your opponent and waiting till the last possible moment "issue" that feints have. The more steps added to the move in question, the more backpedaling and doing nothing. This very passive, reactionary, and delayed style of gameplay that is inherent to how the mechanics of mordhau work are what you criticize when you talk about feints.

Clashes are the only mechanic that avoid this passive turn taking.

I just find it very odd that the only mechanic that fundamentally avoids what you find boring about feints is the mechanic you find problematic atm.

Btw, footwork, attack angling, and body manipulation all play into clashes and it is not really random at all. Plus you can always tell if you are about to lose the clash pretty early on and just ftp out.

"I don't like feints because they remove back and forth exchanges that look and feel like a sick sword fight."

ok, fine

"Increase clashes are bad."

wait wut

medium armor needs so much more love, that category is prob the worst in game atm. Brigandine is the only real choice.

Give spear combos again.

ez

The only worry I have is stab feints becoming OP and normal stabs being supper meta and OP.

SOW bs from chiv is not something I want in mordhau

when rob makes the exact same post, but gets double the likes.

@Jax said:
i mean you're not wrong on the time vs quality thing huggles

honestly speaking, (I don't get paid until the game releases lmao) I'd rather Mordhau take forever to be finished and be 11/10 as opposed to trying to rush a release date and ending up with a sub-par product, and I feel like not only is that the best approach from the development point of view - but also from the player's perspective as well

At the same time tho alpha people just want frequent updates :c and what goes into an alpha build for testing def doesn't have to be perfect. I think you guys should do tons of micro patches tbh instead of doing big dumps every 3-4 months.

I'd be ok with release taking longer tho, just the patches that I and most others complain about.

It also reassures your playerbase and in turn produces better word of mouth.

Afaik they cannot survive the fiscal year and will be forced to release.

If they do release this year I feel it will be more pressure to do so than feeling the game is ready for release.

Devs seem too relaxed about development imo. Maybe the devs being less stressed and working on their own pace produces a better product. But it certainly doesn't make development timely. I don't feel comfortable with their method but the combat already smashes chivalry and the quality is on a level better than most triple a releases in an alpha imo so maybe their methods can take credit.

If they dont release this year it'll prob be because they dont want to be dead on arrival and feel like that will happen near the end of the year.

Lack of communication for a crowd funded project is very unprofessional honestly, but this isn't a million dollar+ kickstarter game and most if not all of the devs are first timers and fairly young.

Be cautiously optimistic about release at like at the very end of the year or the very beginning of next year.

@Mittsies said:
I believe the Crush-bashing thing is just a meme, and that nobody actually hates or dislikes him.
Personally I've never seen Crush be anything except extraordinarily patient and reasonable (on Discord).

Patient and Reasonable...

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHSHAHAGAGAGAGAGAGA

He is dedicated to the game and does listen to feedback and reexamines the game constantly. But he is extraordinarily stubborn tbh.

He's definitely a guy you can work with tho, and he is one of the prime architects of the best things in the combat, not just the stuff we bitch about.

And ya, no one that isn't a legit child actually hates him or thinks he is a dumb dev. But criticism isn't the same as that.

crush is a sick man tho, but you picked the wrong qualities is all I'm saying. The main thing that is good about him is his passion for the game, and all things considered he is fair and balanced with how he approaches the game. He makes many changes based on feedback despite having personal feelings to the contrary. That is something you have to respect.

Glaive could be a faster bardiche with a better stab that's prob equally as useful as the slash, but probably a bit weaker overall. Giving it a consistent 3htk to plate but no ability to 2 shot with headshots.