Mordhau
 Huggles
Duke
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  • Date joined 1 Feb '16
  • Last seen 31 Oct '19

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Duke 2266 4010
  • 13 Apr '19
 Huggles

@Frise said:

@Huggles said:
1vx isn't hard because of readability tho. They just cannot use many offensive options and get overwhelmed before they get a chance to make good plays.

That's my point. Easy chambers force the game's balance to revolve around unreadable feints. Feints are virtually useless for the 1, and the 1 can't abuse chambers like the X can. 1 doesn't get to use the main tactic the combat revolves around, yet has to hard-read that same offensive tactic which is designed to not be realistically hard-read, because ez-chambers would have no use otherwise.

Which is why the "We're not balancing around duels" thing baffles me. Feints are an awful mechanic to revolve the combat around if you're balancing around teamplay.

Original chambers also theoretically gave a superior player the ability to completely out-stam their opponent. Now we have the opposite; you need to pay stamina to defend against feints (stab feints at least), turning the tide even more against the 1.

The current implementation of chambers is a lazy, detrimental alternative to polishing their original implementation.

I wouldn't really be opposed to going back to old chamber honestly, particularly where teamplay is involved.

I always thought the main reason it was hated was because of dueler bois not liking how much original chamber invalidated lazy feints.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 13 Apr '19
 Huggles

Easy defense = bad and boring

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 13 Apr '19
 Huggles

@Frise said:
A big issue with the current implemnatiom of chambers is that they are a justification for feints to be asbsurdly powerful. Even if chambers get protection, the stamina cost means ghat the 1 will always have to use it with caution while the X gets to crutch on it. So then the 1 has less access to the only thing that makes dealing with feints reasonable.

Chambers should go back to their old state of being a high risk situational defence; with accels now being reasonable, you can actually wait till release to react to an attack. The inability to do that was what made original chambers bad. But now chambers are just here to justify insane feints, which are a mechanic that will always be almost useless to the 1.

1vx isn't hard because of readability tho. They just cannot use many offensive options and get overwhelmed before they get a chance to make good plays. You can stay alive in 1vx just fine for a reasonably long amount of time if you are a superior player.

The issue is the x chambering to avoid reading the 1 entirely.

Also an fov thing. More vision would be rly nice

Duke 2266 4010
  • 2
  • 13 Apr '19
 Huggles

@Bang said:
You could test a 600ms flat attack lockout instead of band-aid 1vX solutions. That "clunky" feeling is just bullshit - no one ever said chivalry felt clunky because of attack lockout, and how would you know anyways since we actually never testing it? The only thing I can foresee bringing Mordhau up to par with competitive chivalry teammodes is mod support atm since the devs won't actually test anything.

Several people have said chiv felt clunky because of attack lockout. People mention clunkiness and brokenness everytime chiv comes up in a topic.

Chiv itself is just a janky, clunky, broken mess.


Number 1 thing @marox devs can do to help with 1vx without destroying the excellent teamfighting the mechanics have for us so far is addressing how chambers function in general or in that scenario. The issue is chamber, not parry lockout.

Being able to chamber the 1 in 1vx is what allows people to just spam it and circle strafe and there is pretty much nothing you can do about it even if you are reading everything and in general are way better than the x.

If two people on a similar skill level than you are destroying you in 2v1, I don't think the game is broken. I think that is actually good for teamfights and healthy for the game. But when two people way below your skilllevel can just fuck u up cus they spam chamber and there really isn't anything you can do about it period, I think that sucks and takes away from the core philosophy of the game. It being unforgiving and taking skill.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 16 Mar '19
 Huggles

Love the tab idea for loadouts

Personally, I found frontline a ton of fun but the main thing that detracted from the experience was earlier in the day when lots of very "new" people played and had no real sense of teamplay. People just ran in and died on their own.

I think we very badly need a SQUAD system, something that keeps new players fighting together and able to communicate.

VOIP and Squad leads that can issue movement orders, targets, etc would be very awesome and I think it would DRASTICALLY improve the fun of the mode.

It's just a little bit too mindless right now.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 2
  • 14 Mar '19
 Huggles

Shield needs a fundamental rework, not a bunch of tweaks.

Right now everyone loses, shield is too survivable but has shit offense. It basically tells you to turtle but then you are punished for turtling.

Turtling is boring and bad, should never be encouraged even if it is suboptimal.

I think it should be ONE of the following or some sort of mix.


  1. Remove Held Block: Either make shield a super parry so it is timed like everything else but has some sort of extra benefit or...
  2. Keep Held Block but: Nerf shield block box again or add turncap restrictions once you have the block up (or a bit of both) or...
  3. Add some sort of mechanic or specialized wep that specifically counters shield, then make shield less clunky and more powerful offensively.

Last I heard the devs were going for something like 3.

Personally, I'd rather have 1 or 2.

Shield should be fun to use and fight, it shouldn't just be a stam war or spamming one specific move/wep.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 14 Mar '19
 Huggles

As others have said, shield weakness is that it is pretty slow and clunky to use, easy to kick, stamina issues, etc. The defensive value is over the top insane and fundamentally breaks the core timing aspect of the game. If you have hundreds of hours and people are getting around the shield, that is COMPLETELY on you man.

You must be literally looking the opposite direction man lmao.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 5 Mar '19
 Huggles

@Pred said:

@Frise said:
The fix is way simpler than that. A small window after comboing from a miss where you can't feint, say, 150 ms. This still allows CFTP for reasonable misses but allows blatant whiffs to be punished by attacking during their release. Blatant meaning, started the attack out of range, failed to feint it, kept running forward, and did nothing to avoid the punish.

Whiffs out of range are only a small part of the problem, people overdrag you on purpose if their attack is going nowhere so they can get a second chance of brutalizing the animation. In a big group fight stamina loss means nothing. Or if you were one shot away from dead they will get the stamina back instantly if they kill you.

Combo only to parry but no combo to another attack when you miss would fix like 7* different problems and help clean up the spinning headless chicken pinball fights.

<asterisk here>

  1. Noobs not knowing what CFTP is
  2. Brainless spam
  3. Target switching into nothing, worrying about finding targets later
  4. Spinning
  5. 180ing then 180ing back with gamble stab
  6. Buffs footwork
  7. Buffs range

tbh if you can't combo after a miss you will see more headless chicken dancing.

Why? Because the common tactic everyone does after they realize they fuck up, is turn around 180 degrees, lower their head, and run away.

I think you should just increase combo time by a significant amount. If no one attempts to punish the whiff immediately after it happens, he CFTP like normal on the late punish or he just continues to combo period. If someone does punish immediately after, he can't do anything and if he DOES do the 180 shit he will just get immediately hit anyway so it doesn't look dumb.

However, if you CANNOT combo after a miss PERIOD people will realize they are missing and while doing so will begin to start running away which looks terrible and you see this happening all the time with naked maul strats and with the executioner sword.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 3 Mar '19
 Huggles

Crush is just very vocal about his thoughts which I think is a very good thing, and he is conservative with the changes he makes which is arguably also a good thing.

He can be rude at times but he is fair and actually listens to feedback, regardless of if you know it or not. He probably reads all this shit too tbh.

We are lucky to have him as a dev man.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 24 Feb '19
 Huggles

@Rhike said:
Oh, come on, man. Complaining about 2-3-0 whilst we got a buff to the Executioner Sword that lets you one-shot naked legs, and a lot of weapons 2HK'ing legs+torso?

331, 231, 330, 230 are not "basically full protection" at all.

I've studied damage and armor for tens of hours. I can say for sure that 333=332, but if you go any lower you suffer losses.

Easy example of a loss - 231, vs longsword, get hit in the head and in the legs = dead.
2HK.

I do not advocate for this rock-paper-scissors gameplay, but it exists - Light armor usually gets 2HK by everything including smaller weapons (and that's the usual counter aside from Exe sword 1HK), but, in turn, light armors can footwork blunts easier with no reduction in effectiveness.

I believe the damage system is fair, after having used all the armors. However, T2 chest majorly sucks. Extremely so.
(The nerf to lower legs should help the current 332 331 users)


With that out of the way, I'll address my personal opinions.

Yes, Longsword's OP.
I do want plate armor to be costed at 4, but then you'd break the image of a full plate knight with a greatsword, which is undoubtedly a selling point. Also it screws with the otherwise linear system. So, I do not think that is a solution unless you're revamping more things.
Right now there's little incentive to go light armor aside from literally one thing; Halberd. We need more things like that. Polehammer? OP perks? Buckler? An actual historical long, high-cost one-handed Rapier? Something of the sort.
Personally, lunge is the issue, but, as others mentioned, it's a noob-friendly mechanic.

What you're missing is how 80% of the hits go toward the chest. A lot of times even when you are explicitly aiming for legs you hit chest. Hitting head is also very hard to do and focusing on it results in a lot of missed hits. All of this is in duels, in teamfights it becomes even harder.

Executioner is very hard to land hits with period because of its low release high windup nature. It is slow af, has no combos, and has shit drags.

Against all the meta loadouts, there really is no reason currently to not go 3-3-1, 2-3-1. I will give you that naked legs are probably a bit more compromising than I made out to be, but the fact remains that aiming for the legs only is pretty risk and hard to do in general because of how much that opens you up to footwork and how often attacks that are supposed to hit the legs count towards chest damage.

Also regardless of any of this we basically agree on the main points, right?

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 23 Feb '19
 Huggles

@Bodkin agree completely

I feel as tho balancing plate loadouts and swords has taken a back seat to making swords strong against everything because swords are seen as cool.

LS is OP and retarded beyond belief realy. 5 point weapon that can do everything with good HTK, Speed, Reach, Drags, etc.

It doesn't even need mordhau grip to be retarded strong and yet mordhau grip allows it to be both a generally OP weapon and a specialized OP alt grip.

Ridiculous.

I also think plate is in general too fast compared to light armor and the weapons you can afford while still in full plate are far too good. I also think leg armor makes too big of an impact on overall speed for how meaningless it is as protection compared to torso.


Rn you can pick 3-3-1 loadout which gives you pretty damn good speed compared to everything else in the game at basically the cost of no protection disadvantage. Or you can go 2-3-1. Or you can go 2-3-0/3-3-0.

What does this on average cost? like 5-7 points for basically full protection. You have 9-11 points left over. So you can grab longsword and a cleaver and still have a shit ton left for essential and non-essential perks. Or you can grab a zwei, bardiche, or even a fucking halberd if you go 2-3-0.

In response the devs in the past have pushed WEAPON costs up, which just makes light armor less viable because they barely have perks left over for anything else and plate can just pick a wep worth 1-2 points less that is basically just as good or they can just forgo 1 tier on a meaningless armor piece.


TL'DR plate currently has best of all worlds. Plate has:

  1. Very good protection
  2. Pretty good point flexibility
  3. Access to the best weapons
  4. Enough mobility to where it is almost never obviously lacking in any given scenario.

2 or 3 of the above should not be as good as they are now.

Either nerf its mobility significantly or buff the mobility of other armors mobility, raise the cost of plate specifically by a substantial number, make certain perks unavailable if you use plate, make certain weapons unavailable if you use plate, or some combination of all these potentials.

But do not try to balance it by indirectly also nerfing lighter builds which basically just makes all the plate nerfs meaningless.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 21 Feb '19
 Huggles

@Cswic said:

@Huggles said:
The thing is tho, you really don't want too strong of a lunge period imho. People use the analogy of like ice skating to describe the game when lunge is crazy, but I think jet packs are more analogous.

It's just the BURST of speed that feels shit for judging range.

It's a burst of speed that is not obviously conveyed through animation. When lunge is too strong it feels like anyone can be in range at any time and it makes it crazy hard to track where everyone is in the middle of a fight.

It turns teamfights into basically just mindlessly riposting and doing the most ridiculous far fetched morph drag target switches with lunge.

It leaves newer players LOST like shroud who was just walking and such while swinging and everyone else is just VROOMING around everywhere with crazy lunge.

The part about shroud is just flat wrong. There are enough arguments against lunge so there is no need to put in misinformation.

Shroud, like many other newer players, did not know that you can sprint while attacking. That is why he was walking. Absolutely nothing to do with lunge.

He actually would have been much worse off without lunge since his range would have been even more gimped compared to people who know about sprinting while attacking.

I'm not talking about him hitting people, I'm talking about his perception of range. Perception of range is absolutely FUCKED by lunge.

Him not sprinting while attacking and a lot of new players not really good about being pressuring and aggressive with W key shows how unintuitive the lunge boost can be as well.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 21 Feb '19
 Huggles

The thing is tho, you really don't want too strong of a lunge period imho. People use the analogy of like ice skating to describe the game when lunge is crazy, but I think jet packs are more analogous.

It's just the BURST of speed that feels shit for judging range.

It's a burst of speed that is not obviously conveyed through animation. When lunge is too strong it feels like anyone can be in range at any time and it makes it crazy hard to track where everyone is in the middle of a fight.

It turns teamfights into basically just mindlessly riposting and doing the most ridiculous far fetched morph drag target switches with lunge.

It leaves newer players LOST like shroud who was just walking and such while swinging and everyone else is just VROOMING around everywhere with crazy lunge.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 15 Feb '19
 Huggles

lowering dodge cost, raising plate armor cost, and adding certain perk restrictions for plate armor would be the best way imho.

I see light armor/naked spear/halberd/etc in combination with lots of powerful perks being very useful in lots of pubs, and also as a utility role ofc.
However, in small man teams and duels, I highly doubt anything will ever be worth more than plate armor at the highest level of play. Survivability is just too huge of a factor.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 26 Jan '19
 Huggles

@GAYFISH said:

@Huggles said:

@GAYFISH said:
Honestly I thought whiff punishing was in a great spot before the introduction of stam recovery on hit.
If you were skilled enough to force misses and punish your opponent's poor stam management while remaining aggressive you were rewarded by winning the stam war.
But now that stam on hit exists punishing whiffs and poor stam usage is much more inconsistent since you can regain anywhere from 13-20 stamina by landing a single hit.
I feel like this greatly encourages more brainless combo/morph feint spam because poor stamina usage is much more difficult to punish.
I really don't know why this mechanic was added, did anyone think it was necessary?

The issue is stamina being a huge part of gameplay in general imho. Stamina should be less of a balancer and more just as a barebones mechanic that keeps fights from lasting a zillion years. Stamina was simply too limiting in chivalry and I think it's changed for the better in mordhau, but that being said there are simply too many powerful moves solely "balanced" by stamina. Chief among all these being the chamber. Chamber is a read anything mechanic for the cost of stamina and it's pretty gay that way imho. And everyone just morph spams everything and it overall leads to combat feeling extremely non-committal and less than lethal with a lot of prolonged artificial survivability.

The thing is that the stam on hit mechanic adds a ton of artificial survivability though, because as long as you're able to land every 1 out of 2-3 hits you can keep being mindlessly aggressive and not worry about blowing your load too early.
The reason you see so much chamber botting and morph/feint spam is because the chances of you being punished for bad stam usage aren't good, especially if you land an occasional hit.

Ya ik, that's my point. Stamina being so crucial to gameplay at all is the issue imho. You're kinda confirming that it's a huge deal because the excess of stamina has made everyone way too survivable due to brain ftp and chamber spam that is way too powerful because stamina is so abundant.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Jan '19
 Huggles

@GAYFISH said:
Honestly I thought whiff punishing was in a great spot before the introduction of stam recovery on hit.
If you were skilled enough to force misses and punish your opponent's poor stam management while remaining aggressive you were rewarded by winning the stam war.
But now that stam on hit exists punishing whiffs and poor stam usage is much more inconsistent since you can regain anywhere from 13-20 stamina by landing a single hit.
I feel like this greatly encourages more brainless combo/morph feint spam because poor stamina usage is much more difficult to punish.
I really don't know why this mechanic was added, did anyone think it was necessary?

The issue is stamina being a huge part of gameplay in general imho. Stamina should be less of a balancer and more just as a barebones mechanic that keeps fights from lasting a zillion years. Stamina was simply too limiting in chivalry and I think it's changed for the better in mordhau, but that being said there are simply too many powerful moves solely "balanced" by stamina. Chief among all these being the chamber. Chamber is a read anything mechanic for the cost of stamina and it's pretty gay that way imho. And everyone just morph spams everything and it overall leads to combat feeling extremely non-committal and less than lethal with a lot of prolonged artificial survivability.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 25 Jan '19
 Huggles

@GIRUGIRU said:
"Gambling can ensue out of this, where someone whiffs and just comboes expecting you to feint the punish. Then you have to guess what they're going to do, because you can't wait for their input and then feint, the timing doesn't realistically allow for that. "

This is just wrong as well, morphs prevent this. It's not Chivalry

You still have to waste stamina for what should be a risk free/cost free punish for a mistake tbh. The consequence of making a mistake should always be getting hit. In mordhau there's a lot of ways to just avoid this at the cost of stamina, and it makes the game for the worse imho. Just adds a lot of annoying survivability and makes the game feel less lethal. It also makes veterans basically untouchable to anyone but other veterans which is bad for when noobs come into the game.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 23 Jan '19
 Huggles

Morph by far the best option here, but I think the fact that they can just gamble you is sort of terrible in and of itself and if it works it kind of turns their mistake into a fucking victory which is bs imho.

We know there are ways to deal with whiffs and whiffs are generally a disadvantage, but I think what frise and a lot of people feel is that whiffing should just result in a free hit period, with no mind games involved.

The game should be: "You missed, get hit, eat shit."

Duke 2266 4010
  • 22 Jan '19
 Huggles

Restricting feint window would be bad tbh. I think you should just nerf the time it takes to combo after a miss.

Duke 2266 4010
  • 1
  • 15 Sep '18
 Huggles

Those fights weren't really interesting at all. Extraordinarily boring to watch. Mordhau is a huge improvement for sure. Trix's latest video makes people really want to play the game. Stouty's duels in chiv would prob put people to sleep tbh.