Mordhau
 Cswic
  • Likes received 747
  • Date joined 26 Jan '16
  • Last seen 1h

Private Message

216 747
  • 3
  • 17 Mar
 Cswic

In BR if you are disarmed and have another melee weapon in your inventory you get automatically instant swapped to it, or can instant swap to it, even while the disarm animation is still playing.

After talking with Monoxtr (guy in clip) it seems like this bug may be purely visual? He mentioned that he remembers spamming trying to swap to zwei before he got disarmed and he didn't get the zwei out in time on his screen.

216 747
  • 1
  • 10 Mar
 Cswic

Also lute should be usable with shields when in smack mode.

216 747
  • 7
  • 24 Feb
 Cswic

I wrote that crossbow and longbow are the equivalent of snipers. The comment about maul was in an entirely unrelated sentence.

216 747
  • 24 Feb
 Cswic

@Peacerer said:

@Cswic said:
Assuming you don't get one tapped from behind by a maul or shot by an archer.

Why would that be a problem? Considering ridiculously low arrow dmg... Target wouldn't even notice it, untill some 4th hit maybe in which case he simply hides and wait few seconds for health restore.

They were discussing TTK. Maul can one tap anything. Crossbow and Longbow can 1 shot naked or light helm from a distance, the equivalent of being shot by a sniper in the FPS battle royales.

216 747
  • 7
  • 23 Feb
 Cswic

Assuming you don't get one tapped from behind by a maul or shot by an archer.

Big difference for mordhau br should be how common place makeshift alliances are. With the game being melee, voice lines, and longer ttk in general compared to most fps br games you can actually try to team up with a random since the game isn't just "better shoot first and ask questions later".

Whole trend of BR from dayz mod all the way to apex legends has been taking away overall strategy and turning them into more of a fast paced 1 life death match. Hopefully mordhau can have a bit of both.

216 747
  • 3
  • 21 Feb
 Cswic

@Huggles said:
The thing is tho, you really don't want too strong of a lunge period imho. People use the analogy of like ice skating to describe the game when lunge is crazy, but I think jet packs are more analogous.

It's just the BURST of speed that feels shit for judging range.

It's a burst of speed that is not obviously conveyed through animation. When lunge is too strong it feels like anyone can be in range at any time and it makes it crazy hard to track where everyone is in the middle of a fight.

It turns teamfights into basically just mindlessly riposting and doing the most ridiculous far fetched morph drag target switches with lunge.

It leaves newer players LOST like shroud who was just walking and such while swinging and everyone else is just VROOMING around everywhere with crazy lunge.

The part about shroud is just flat wrong. There are enough arguments against lunge so there is no need to put in misinformation.

Shroud, like many other newer players, did not know that you can sprint while attacking. That is why he was walking. Absolutely nothing to do with lunge.

He actually would have been much worse off without lunge since his range would have been even more gimped compared to people who know about sprinting while attacking.

216 747
  • 2
  • 20 Feb
 Cswic

@GAYFISH said:
Changing lunge based on armor worn could really help lighter loadouts.
The main reason footwork and dodging are so ineffective as a light class is because plate fatty can just zoom straight up to you and be immediately in range because of lunge.
I mean lunge distance is nearly identical to the dodge distance which just makes it feel useless.
Why ever go light when you effectively have the same mobility as a rat when it comes to small team engagements or duels.
It seems like the only melee meta the devs want is full plate accel/decel apes making their animations as unreadable as possible.
It's sad really

Early on we did have lunge scaling upwards with armor speed before they made it static since lighter lunge felt too strong or something. I think Izil suggested the same thing recently (before it was said we'd have this 25ms lunge nerf). 1/1/1 or 0/0/0 would have the current lunge and then anything heavier would have worse. Kind of the opposite of the original way it scaled.

Should definitely push for this depending on how things play out with the lunge nerf.

216 747
  • 4
  • 18 Feb
 Cswic

@PinkiePowPowMSK said:
stap edit comment..
What i mean by complicated is that all these things are either passive or doesn't really matter. theres a few solutions such as adding faster regeneration which would allow you to return upon the battlefield faster that could be useful but would also allow players to retreat or stay away from a fight when low health.

@Cswic said:
Armor already works this way to an extent and the overwhelming heavy armor usage has shown that the movement speed gap isn't worthwhile enough compared to the HTK.
The speed of each armor tier hasnt been balanced properly which is a reason why it isnt worthwhile compared to the HTK.

Sorry about the quick edits. I understand what you mean now. If tenacious was more expensive I think it'd be nice if it made healing start faster in addition to increasing the heal rate.

Honestly maybe a greater range of movement speed like you said in addition to the upcoming lunge nerf would be enough.

216 747
  • 4
  • 18 Feb
 Cswic

He isn't saying to feint a riposte. Pretty sure what he means is that instead of going to riposte all the time you just wait half a beat to see if the guy is going to run away after your parry. Most of the time they have to start their turn / run during your parry in order for it to work so you can decide if you want to riposte or wait to do a normal attack that can be morphed or feinted. The morph or feint usually lets you close the distance and hit the guy in the back.

I'd take more varied movement speed across armors than some of these other changes, the riposte run away is just one of the potential issues I felt like mentioning.

Just add it to the proverbial list since in the end the point of this thread is just to have some ideas for lighter builds.

216 747
 Cswic

@PinkiePowPowMSK said:
Why make it so complicated? Just make it about speed so that less armor makes u faster when walking and running. Both in terms of acceleration the amount of time it takes to get to max speed and in top speed. This will overall make the feeling of using 1h with light armor alot better than with heavy and will also give you an advantage against Heavy armor players using 1h weps.
Keep it simple and skillbased...

I don't feel any of that is particularly complicated. More complicated compared to movement speed increase? Sure.
Armor already works this way to an extent and the overwhelming heavy armor usage has shown that the movement speed gap isn't worthwhile enough compared to the HTK.
Making lighter armor faster means more riposte runaways which people seem to dislike.

216 747
  • 2
  • 18 Feb
 Cswic

Summary so far:

1) Flexibility: Either built into armor or a perk that increases the degrees of spine bending while standing and while crouched. Usually the lighter armor players like to be more evasive anyway so this is a good fit.

  • Possible issue if the increased lookdown would provide stronger accels / instas.

2) Jump kick perk: Pretty straight forward. You can jump and you can kick. Lighter armors jump farther as mittsies mentioned so this perk would also softly scale with armor type. If the stamina drain on jump kick is too strong it could be lowered via the perk as a trade off.

3) Climb speed based on armor / faster climbing for lighter armors.

4) Mentioned in other threads, but inventory slot perk or increased inventory slots based on armor. E.g. T0/T1/T2/T3 would have 5/4/3/2 slots respectively based on chest armor level. Reason being that right now if you wanted to give up armor to run more utility items like traps or medkits you don't always have enough slots.

  • Potential issue of increased firepot and throwing spam.

5) Higher Jump via armor type or via perk.

  • Potential issue of getting out of map or into areas you should not be.
216 747
  • 3
  • 15 Feb
 Cswic

@SherbershLemel said:
if were talking about letting lighter classes have more options in battle, might i suggest a few ideas

  • able to crouch and bend slightly further, make evasion tactics more viable

This is a good idea and one I hope they consider in the near future. It has the potential to make lighter armors better in straight up fights and does it in a way that is not just adding more hp like plate armor.

With the archery stuff:

A lot of recent archery changes have been made to discourage "shotgunning" so I don't think the crossbow hipfire would work out.

216 747
  • 2
  • 15 Feb
 Cswic

@Huggles said:
lowering dodge cost, raising plate armor cost, and adding certain perk restrictions for plate armor would be the best way imho.

I see light armor/naked spear/halberd/etc in combination with lots of powerful perks being very useful in lots of pubs, and also as a utility role ofc.
However, in small man teams and duels, I highly doubt anything will ever be worth more than plate armor at the highest level of play. Survivability is just too huge of a factor.

Dodge cost is going to be 4 points last I heard and have lower stamina cost.

I don't think plate armor costs too little, aside from maybe plate chest. I think the alternatives are not worthwhile enough. I don't want to take away the knight-esque loadouts people enjoy playing, I want them to be used as the standard for where alternatives should aim to be.

Perk restrictions based on armor type is something that has been talked about before and I think is on the right track in general. The big question then is what perks do you give lighter loadouts access to that are attractive enough to take a survivability hit? So far no one seems to have an answer to this, myself included.

216 747
  • 14 Feb
 Cswic

@Jax said:

@Cswic said:

Is short spear throw planned to be in game before release or after? I understand short spear throw isn't exactly top priority, but I wanted to ask anyway since it has been a long time since short spear throw was first mentioned.

it's planned for release :)

Thanks, it's nice to know at least.

216 747
 Cswic

There have been mentions of how "lighter loadouts just need some more powerful perks" to bring them up to par with your typical 3/3/x 2h weapon loadout. Afaik no info has been said on what those perks may be, or if they are already being internally tested etc.

Is the goal to make light loadouts be able to duke it out with heavier ones in a pure combat role, or is it to make them the high utility role?

Current perks and utility items don't provide enough useful utility worth taking (aside from maybe throwing axe spam) and there aren't any combat oriented perks that bring lighter armors + 1h up to par with 3/3/x 2h.

Honestly the heavy armor 2h loadouts or big weapon loadouts probably should be the team fight kings and that is fine. Utility or combat, either is fine.

If there are some powerful perks already in the works feel free to close this.

Edit: Loose definition of "light loadout" = willingly spending about 10 pts on weapons and armor with interest in taking 6 pts worth of perks or utility items. Personally I would not consider most zwei or halberd loadouts to be "light" because they are heavy weapons. Semantics aside, the zwei and halberd loadouts are still relevant to the discussion in the sense that perks that function well for lighter armors would potentially be used on those loadouts too.

216 747
  • 14 Feb
 Cswic

@Jax said:
Cool ideas, but unfortunately a lot of these ideas such as blocking and attacking with shield or formation fighting don't really translate well to Mordhau.

We're going with a throw for the alt mode, reason being that it will be one of (if not) the strongest thrown weapons in the game, and having an under/overam mechanic would be hard to differentiate in a way that's meaningful. We could make one a fast/weaker/shorter mode and one longer, but there are already many weapons in the game (including the long spear) which do this, so it might feel like a bit of bloat.

Is short spear throw planned to be in game before release or after? I understand short spear throw isn't exactly top priority, but I wanted to ask anyway since it has been a long time since short spear throw was first mentioned.

216 747
  • 1
  • 10 Feb
 Cswic

@idiotgod said:
adjust the Parry box relative to the size and shape of weapon model.

The shorter 1-3 point weapons are now harder to use than the 6+ point weapons.

Sure, but pred's issue is more specifically about their offense which this change would not change. Instead it makes it easier to justify the weapons having these fast, nearly unblockable on 80+ ping, attacks because now you can say "well their parry is worse so that's why they need those attacks".

They've already made the 1 pt weapons have worse parry stam negation (exception is cleaver) and gain only 5 stam on hit instead of 10. This change feels like it isn't enough when you use the weapon as a backup, and then also too much if you attempt to use the 1pters as main weapons. no one wins.

216 747
  • 4
  • 10 Feb
 Cswic

@Pred said:

It seems like devs are trying to balance Chivalry in Mordhau - "everything has to be viable by itself, otherwise people will never use lesser weapons", forgetting there is a point system to do that. Yes, it was a problem in Chiv where you would never be disarmed and weapons were assigned to classes, so there was never any point in using Falchion or Bearded Axe when you could've gone with Messer or Maul, but this is no longer the case.

If you spend all your points on armor and Baxe then you should be in a major disadvantage when you get disarmed and have to switch to 1p weapon, not suddenly stiop having to worry about defense and go head first for top kek tornado spam.

The possible solution to this is to make weapons worse on a base level and then have perks or proficiencies that you select to bring them back to or better than their current state.

We'll keep it simple for now for arguments sake and have 1hand, 2hand, heavy weapon, and ranged proficiency.
Heavy weapon would be anything from maul and estar to zwei and halberd. Rest are self explanatory.

So now each loadout can pick 1 proficiency. You make a typical 3/3/x loadout with longsword w/ shortsword backup and pick 2hand proficiency. Your shortsword will be absolute dogshit in terms of stam properties and windups or release, but your 2hander will be comparable to the current longsword.

Main problem is if that would fit with the devs vision of the game, which it may not since it is a bit more RPG-ish than competitive melee slasher. It'd also be a bit of work because the "nerfed" versions of the weapons would need to all be semi balanced out too. Also late in the game to try out such a change too.

I think this'd be a step in the right direction though of having everything viable overall, but you are limited to picking what you want viable at the current time.

216 747
  • 7 Feb
 Cswic

@Pred said:

@Cswic said:

@Pred said:

@machinegod said:
I get that binds are better but as long as 240 exists some people will use it and therefore we should try to make it more consistent.

It's one input method for two different actions (attacks and torso movement), it's never going to be super reliable.

It can be if they want it to be. They can implement a 6 attack 240 system version where each 40 degree angle range is the same attack.

E.g. Right Overhead (like the angle that a bound right overhead uses) is angle 0 degree to 40 degree.

Having 6 set attack angles bound to 6 more generous angle ranges would help 240 feel more consistent than the current iteration, imo.

That was my idea as well, but we got a semi-official response semi-indicating this is not happening. So it is what it is I guess.

Happen to remember who the semi-official response was from? Wouldn't surprise me if that was the case honestly.

216 747
 Cswic

@Pred said:

@machinegod said:
I get that binds are better but as long as 240 exists some people will use it and therefore we should try to make it more consistent.

It's one input method for two different actions (attacks and torso movement), it's never going to be super reliable.

It can be if they want it to be. They can implement a 6 attack 240 system version where each 40 degree angle range is the same attack.

E.g. Right Overhead (like the angle that a bound right overhead uses) is angle 0 degree to 40 degree.

Having 6 set attack angles bound to 6 more generous angle ranges would help 240 feel more consistent than the current iteration, imo.

angles_240.jpg