As Mordhau release approaches, as far as I can tell archer limit is going to be thing. Even though I am not a fan archer limit but it occured to me what if we balance Cavalry(horses) in kind of a similar way. Instead of adding huge time to respawn them, we get a limit for each team. Both team will have a number of horses on their spawn. Horses will respawn after similar time that it takes for a player to respawn so we can consistently see enough of them in fights like we see archers. However, perhaps nerf horses and make it so they are more of a class that ambushes unaware enemies instead of something that goes in like an indistructable force. So horse can work more as a class than vehicle. Horses are a cool addition in battlefield. Currently you will find maybe 2 of them at a time and those 2 are enough to cancer entire battlefield. Why not we make it a lot more risky to play and add more of them? Don't wanna go into details but some people have already mentioned the bubble of horses that flinch people.
Might be irrelevant for the topic but having some kind of spacial 1 v X mechanic that is based on chamber would be nice. Since chamber is the hardest mechanic to pull off if you think about the basic offensive moves like feinting, morphing. It's not THAT hard but still riposte got buffed with hyper armor and stuff. Riposte is easier pull off. Not to mention chambering can counter missing by X which is quite cheesy. Chamber can lead to more powerful offensive mix up as well. More skill based moves should be more rewarding imo.
Spawn improvement, tweaks and such aside. I am making this thread to talk about new features in BR. Feel free to give feedback.
In many BR games, certain parts of the map has more concentration of player engagement due to better loots and for example being able to revive team mates in Apex Legends. There are people who thinks Mordhau should have a progression system in BR like you get low tier weapons/armors at first and then better. A lot of people also think that the game mode does not have much of a Story. It feels like FFA with one life.
One interesting way to do it would be introducing anvils in the mode. There will be anvils in certain parts of the map. Normally you will always get tier 1 light armor from chests. However, if you take that to the anvil you can upgrade it to better one.
Even anvils could have different tiers. Like certain rusty anvil can only turn tier 1 armor to tier 2. While royal anvil will upgrade tier 2 to tier 3. If it overcomplicate things, one kind of anvil will do.
Same things could be done with weapons. You will get low tier weapons/ peasant weapons from chests. Perhaps quarterstaff could later be turned into a spear, scythe into Bardiche, club into eveningstar and such in anvil. That would give some progression. Since the circle will keep closing the anvils will start to be unavailable as well so that can create tension in those areas. Weapons could be divided into anvil types too. For example, only a royal anvil can make Zweihander/Halberd and such.
Introducing perks in BR as books. We could have a different inventory space for perks like we can only equip 2-3 perks. We'll get books from chest that will contain perks. I remember Spook saying each Perks will have their unique logo. So I guess the books will have the logo on their cover once the logo is added in game. Although perks like current bloodlust/dodge should be rare.
Giving realistic medieval map for the players to see where the anvils/important places are. Anvil placement could have an RNG pattern. However, people can see it on map as soon as game starts. You can't see where you are in the map directly but if you see the drawing and places like castles/ hills etc you will be able to figure out your current location.
You know the BR mode itself doesn't usually appeal me. However, I remember playing certain BR games making squads with friends and suddenly it was 10x more fun. I agree that squad BR with voip can make the mode better.
Although making the mode actually interesting is a lot more important imo. I feel bad for saying this but currently it looks extremely basic and will most likely be overshadowed unless significantly improved.
1 v X mechanic to farm multiple enemies as Mordhau was aiming to be at the beginning. "A good player will be untouchable in the battlefield because he's good at the game." - Marox
6 distinctive angles instead of 240 angles. Stab will have only 2 angles as well.
Shield and archery balance, skill based and competitively viable.
Look up overhead aka Sky drag fixed.
More horses on map but they are more balanced as well. Horses in 6 v 6 competitive tournament/ esports would look really cool. It's made a tactical risky class with skill ceiling. Although I feel like that would never happen but I am just expressing my hope.
Competitive 5 v 5/ 6 v 6 scrims on Frontline. (Like we used to in Chiv Team Objective)
Since we've already been introduced to black powder barrels on Camp frontline we could get some small black powder bombs.
Black powder bomb will not explode on Impact. After being thrown on the ground, it will make a distinctive burning noise like current powder barrels and after certain seconds, explode. So it's more avoidable during melee fights then Firepots.
Perhaps Firepots could recieve a harsh nerf against structures, stay as a crowd control tool and black powder could be better against buildings. In addition, if a cavalry happen to run into an exploding bomb range (which will be very hard to execute because of timer of the bomb), the horse could lift itself up like it does when bumping into objects and the rider will be dismounted (ragdolled on ground).
To me, camp looks cool. However, it would be nice if the devs made different version of the same map. Like Rainy camp.. same map but there's a rain. or another camp with foggy weather etc. Since weather changing in the same map would put a lot of stress on performance.
Some solid suggestions. Although I personally would also prefer bow projectile speed and distance based on draw time. That would make doing early shots and late shots harder. However, it would also give insane control over shots. I am talking about aiming over objects and hitting people behind them. Although difficult to pull off since you have sway, distance management to deal with.
I play a game where a character throws hatchets to kill people. She has kind of a similar draw time implemented. So sometimes if an enemy player is taking cover, you can actually release hatchet on early wind up ( slower, less distance shot) and aim a bit over their cover to hit people behind them. It's quite rewarding and difficult to do.
I gathered 2 clips from twitch to show what I mean.
@Stumpy said:
Disarming a couched weapon if someone parries AND ragdoll?
That would completely destroy any aspect of cavalry ingame...
Besides, parrying a lance at full speed would disarm you instead of him.
Mass + speed of horse would be superiour to your ability to hold fast your weapon. Simple physics.
You don't get it. I said if you parry a rider who try to hit you with couched weapon, you will get disarmed and ragdolled on the ground.
Also currently cavalry works more like an unstoppable force than tactical force for ambushing. I think the worst part might be the fact that one horses can go into a crowd of people and just flinch everyone with horse and kill one guy with lance. If light horses experience noticable slowdown on horse bump, that could make it more tactical so you actually have to be careful and flank from side and keep running around the map looking for unaware people for ambushing. Also have different use for light and heavy cavalry and spawn them properly. Like each time having 2 light and 1 armored on spawn. I remember watching a video long time ago about cavalry vs infantry and also difference between heavy and light cavalry. It's quite interesting and talks about their realistic use.
As for horses, I would rather suggest nerfing them (we can start with adding disarm + ragdoll if someone parries couched weapon) and adding more horses in a map and decreasing their respawn time. A lot of new players would want to use horses but they won't be able to because of their rarity. So why not make them less OP, more counterable and add more in quantity? Also make it so stealing horses from enemy territory is much harder. Most people would love to see more horses in a map as long as they are well balanced. It's nice to have diversity in combat. This is one of the reason why I keep posting about shields and never liked archery limits. Different Playstyle is always fun as long they are well balanced.
I do not agree with you on this. You yourself said that experienced shield players will not fall for kicks which is pretty obvious. The only thing this will do is make it harder for noobs to get into yet not solving any problem in high level. In addition, you are just gonna get rekt in team fights with random kicks from different sides. I don't think kickstun in this game is a good idea. Shield or no shield.
A simple, lazy change would be to have shield work exactly like normal parry(no hold) with better stamina management. So if Kite shield is made 3 points, kite + Bastard Sword would be 4+3 = 7 points. So I guess Stamina management like a 6-7 point weapons so that the 1h can compete against high point 2 handers. Of course that means 1h + shield would be better than 1 hander which in my opinion should be the case. Especially since if you don't play shield, you can go 3/3/3 heavy armor with Bastard Sword and then have an arming sword. I think it's fair.
And then an alternate mode of shield (like alternate mode of weapons) with a separate animation of shield that can hold but terrible at offense. Pretty much useless at 1 v 1 melee. That mode is for protecting yourself against archers, blocking doorways and stuff. However, that would mean you won't be able to use the alternate mode of 1h while shield is at hand so that's an issue.
I do agree with Jax though. Balancing shield is a pain in the ass. However, I am not losing hope. The only thing I demand is so the devs don't decide to have shield as just a noob friendly low skill ceiling mechanic. If they are determined to have shield as a balanced, viable, competitive thing, sooner or later we will get there.
Yea I honestly think it would be nice to have an archer-focused throwing weapon like Javeline in Mordhau. But if the devs want to use short spear as that maybe reduce short spear cost to 4 so you can carry 3 of them and still have some armor. In addition, having the ability to hold the spear on throwing pose like holding a crossbow. Melee could be nerfed a bit if necessary.
Honestly I also wanted 2 handed club to be in the game. However, when I imagined it, I thought of the club pictures you posted. Solid weapon for any armored soldier. Current club looks like a poor man's weapon. Also, cudgel when.
I personally do not mind that horses are sort of OP as they are pretty much vehicles.
Shield balancing aside, I believe it would be cool if shield can play a role as a defensive tool against horses but not something that will just neutralize them.
I think if someone block a couched spear with a shield, their stamina should go to complete 0, shield disarmed and they should ragdoll in the ground like people do currently when hit by catapults.
Obviously if you are in the heat of battle surrounded by enemies or 1 v 1 ing the horse, you would still get destroyed. However, this can also create interesting moments like if you're using shield and you see a team mate almost being ambushed by a horse, you can save him by taking the hit on shield and risking your life (roleplayer intensifies) as you're completely vulnerable with 0 stamina, shield disarmed and ragdolled on the ground. Shield could also be broken on Impact making them one time use defense but that might be too much idk.
I agree with a lot of the points you described @Rhike.
I think they could do something about the Inventory too... like in some other BR games you can not just have multiple powerful guns. In mordhau, you can carry multiple Eveningstar/Zwei/Halberd. Sometimes even if you run out of stamina you can just pull out your 2nd Eveningstar.
I believe it should be something like:
1 inventory slot cap for a high point 2h weapon.
1 slot for a 1h weapons. Bastard sword, short spear etc
1 slot for a ranged weapon.
1 slot for Shield
1 slot for only throwable. You can stack 2 throwable of the same type in a single slot. perhaps like 4 throwing axe in a slot.
1 slot for Bandages. ( given you can also carry more bandages in a single slot maybe 6 bandages in total)
I also think bandages, ranged, shield should spawn more. High tier weapons should spawn a lot less. I believe BR should be the mode where people have to use both ranged and melee equally and efficiently to win. Spawning more Pavise, kite shield can also help against archers.
Yeah I think if capturing each point required some kind of objective it could be nice. But that objective can not be just like in chivalry since it can go both ways. For Example, the middle objective of Frontline could require bringing a siege tower to the point. Both team will have their tower. If team A comes to the point with their tower, they will cap it. To take that back, Team B need to destroy that tower and bring their own tower. Once a tower is destroyed it will Respawn/automatically built on the team's base. Thus the objective going both ways. Just a theory.
Pushing cart was my favourite part of maps in Chivalry.. especially for Dark Forest and Stoneshill map. I don't care much about killing peasents/kings cause I hate fighting bots in multiplayer games. I think Frontline could use some cart objective at the very least.
Current development stage rewards the same dueling techniques in group fighting, which is maybe not the right way to go. There should be pros and cons to everything. Master your drags, morphs and chambers and kick ass one-on-one. Master your shield, spear and bow and kick ass on the field. This is how it should be in my mind.
I get what you are saying in terms of realistic and all that but Mordhau does not aim to be that game. Feints, drags, morphs, chambers give mordhau the insane high skill ceiling that it has right now. At current stage, shield doesn't. Team fight do require a lot of other skills outside of basic dueling skills like positioning, target switch, fake target switch etc. What you are saying sounds cool on theory but it conflicts with the very fundamentals of Mordhau. However, I hate when people cry, "remove shield/shield is OP" instead of actually making any effort of balance it.
12 Apr
ShovonemAs Mordhau release approaches, as far as I can tell archer limit is going to be thing. Even though I am not a fan archer limit but it occured to me what if we balance Cavalry(horses) in kind of a similar way. Instead of adding huge time to respawn them, we get a limit for each team. Both team will have a number of horses on their spawn. Horses will respawn after similar time that it takes for a player to respawn so we can consistently see enough of them in fights like we see archers. However, perhaps nerf horses and make it so they are more of a class that ambushes unaware enemies instead of something that goes in like an indistructable force. So horse can work more as a class than vehicle. Horses are a cool addition in battlefield. Currently you will find maybe 2 of them at a time and those 2 are enough to cancer entire battlefield. Why not we make it a lot more risky to play and add more of them? Don't wanna go into details but some people have already mentioned the bubble of horses that flinch people.
11 Apr
ShovonemMight be irrelevant for the topic but having some kind of spacial 1 v X mechanic that is based on chamber would be nice. Since chamber is the hardest mechanic to pull off if you think about the basic offensive moves like feinting, morphing. It's not THAT hard but still riposte got buffed with hyper armor and stuff. Riposte is easier pull off. Not to mention chambering can counter missing by X which is quite cheesy. Chamber can lead to more powerful offensive mix up as well. More skill based moves should be more rewarding imo.
- 3
4 Apr
ShovonemSpawn improvement, tweaks and such aside. I am making this thread to talk about new features in BR. Feel free to give feedback.
In many BR games, certain parts of the map has more concentration of player engagement due to better loots and for example being able to revive team mates in Apex Legends. There are people who thinks Mordhau should have a progression system in BR like you get low tier weapons/armors at first and then better. A lot of people also think that the game mode does not have much of a Story. It feels like FFA with one life.
One interesting way to do it would be introducing anvils in the mode. There will be anvils in certain parts of the map. Normally you will always get tier 1 light armor from chests. However, if you take that to the anvil you can upgrade it to better one.
Even anvils could have different tiers. Like certain rusty anvil can only turn tier 1 armor to tier 2. While royal anvil will upgrade tier 2 to tier 3. If it overcomplicate things, one kind of anvil will do.
Same things could be done with weapons. You will get low tier weapons/ peasant weapons from chests. Perhaps quarterstaff could later be turned into a spear, scythe into Bardiche, club into eveningstar and such in anvil. That would give some progression. Since the circle will keep closing the anvils will start to be unavailable as well so that can create tension in those areas. Weapons could be divided into anvil types too. For example, only a royal anvil can make Zweihander/Halberd and such.
Introducing perks in BR as books. We could have a different inventory space for perks like we can only equip 2-3 perks. We'll get books from chest that will contain perks. I remember Spook saying each Perks will have their unique logo. So I guess the books will have the logo on their cover once the logo is added in game. Although perks like current bloodlust/dodge should be rare.
Giving realistic medieval map for the players to see where the anvils/important places are. Anvil placement could have an RNG pattern. However, people can see it on map as soon as game starts. You can't see where you are in the map directly but if you see the drawing and places like castles/ hills etc you will be able to figure out your current location.
4 Apr
ShovonemYou know the BR mode itself doesn't usually appeal me. However, I remember playing certain BR games making squads with friends and suddenly it was 10x more fun. I agree that squad BR with voip can make the mode better.
Although making the mode actually interesting is a lot more important imo. I feel bad for saying this but currently it looks extremely basic and will most likely be overshadowed unless significantly improved.
2 Apr
Shovonem1 v X mechanic to farm multiple enemies as Mordhau was aiming to be at the beginning. "A good player will be untouchable in the battlefield because he's good at the game." - Marox
6 distinctive angles instead of 240 angles. Stab will have only 2 angles as well.
Shield and archery balance, skill based and competitively viable.
Look up overhead aka Sky drag fixed.
More horses on map but they are more balanced as well. Horses in 6 v 6 competitive tournament/ esports would look really cool. It's made a tactical risky class with skill ceiling. Although I feel like that would never happen but I am just expressing my hope.
Competitive 5 v 5/ 6 v 6 scrims on Frontline. (Like we used to in Chiv Team Objective)
- 1
31 Mar
ShovonemBlack Powder Bomb:
Since we've already been introduced to black powder barrels on Camp frontline we could get some small black powder bombs.
Black powder bomb will not explode on Impact. After being thrown on the ground, it will make a distinctive burning noise like current powder barrels and after certain seconds, explode. So it's more avoidable during melee fights then Firepots.
Perhaps Firepots could recieve a harsh nerf against structures, stay as a crowd control tool and black powder could be better against buildings. In addition, if a cavalry happen to run into an exploding bomb range (which will be very hard to execute because of timer of the bomb), the horse could lift itself up like it does when bumping into objects and the rider will be dismounted (ragdolled on ground).
30 Mar
ShovonemTo me, camp looks cool. However, it would be nice if the devs made different version of the same map. Like Rainy camp.. same map but there's a rain. or another camp with foggy weather etc. Since weather changing in the same map would put a lot of stress on performance.
30 Mar
ShovonemSome solid suggestions. Although I personally would also prefer bow projectile speed and distance based on draw time. That would make doing early shots and late shots harder. However, it would also give insane control over shots. I am talking about aiming over objects and hitting people behind them. Although difficult to pull off since you have sway, distance management to deal with.
I play a game where a character throws hatchets to kill people. She has kind of a similar draw time implemented. So sometimes if an enemy player is taking cover, you can actually release hatchet on early wind up ( slower, less distance shot) and aim a bit over their cover to hit people behind them. It's quite rewarding and difficult to do.
I gathered 2 clips from twitch to show what I mean.
https://clips.twitch.tv/InexpensiveProtectiveMangoOSkomodo
https://clips.twitch.tv/SaltySmilingAlfalfaCoolCat
29 Mar
ShovonemYou don't get it. I said if you parry a rider who try to hit you with couched weapon, you will get disarmed and ragdolled on the ground.
Also currently cavalry works more like an unstoppable force than tactical force for ambushing. I think the worst part might be the fact that one horses can go into a crowd of people and just flinch everyone with horse and kill one guy with lance. If light horses experience noticable slowdown on horse bump, that could make it more tactical so you actually have to be careful and flank from side and keep running around the map looking for unaware people for ambushing. Also have different use for light and heavy cavalry and spawn them properly. Like each time having 2 light and 1 armored on spawn. I remember watching a video long time ago about cavalry vs infantry and also difference between heavy and light cavalry. It's quite interesting and talks about their realistic use.
- 1
29 Mar
ShovonemBear traps are fine.
As for horses, I would rather suggest nerfing them (we can start with adding disarm + ragdoll if someone parries couched weapon) and adding more horses in a map and decreasing their respawn time. A lot of new players would want to use horses but they won't be able to because of their rarity. So why not make them less OP, more counterable and add more in quantity? Also make it so stealing horses from enemy territory is much harder. Most people would love to see more horses in a map as long as they are well balanced. It's nice to have diversity in combat. This is one of the reason why I keep posting about shields and never liked archery limits. Different Playstyle is always fun as long they are well balanced.
Using bandage on horse when?
27 Mar
ShovonemI do not agree with you on this. You yourself said that experienced shield players will not fall for kicks which is pretty obvious. The only thing this will do is make it harder for noobs to get into yet not solving any problem in high level. In addition, you are just gonna get rekt in team fights with random kicks from different sides. I don't think kickstun in this game is a good idea. Shield or no shield.
- 2
27 Mar
ShovonemA simple, lazy change would be to have shield work exactly like normal parry(no hold) with better stamina management. So if Kite shield is made 3 points, kite + Bastard Sword would be 4+3 = 7 points. So I guess Stamina management like a 6-7 point weapons so that the 1h can compete against high point 2 handers. Of course that means 1h + shield would be better than 1 hander which in my opinion should be the case. Especially since if you don't play shield, you can go 3/3/3 heavy armor with Bastard Sword and then have an arming sword. I think it's fair.
And then an alternate mode of shield (like alternate mode of weapons) with a separate animation of shield that can hold but terrible at offense. Pretty much useless at 1 v 1 melee. That mode is for protecting yourself against archers, blocking doorways and stuff. However, that would mean you won't be able to use the alternate mode of 1h while shield is at hand so that's an issue.
I do agree with Jax though. Balancing shield is a pain in the ass. However, I am not losing hope. The only thing I demand is so the devs don't decide to have shield as just a noob friendly low skill ceiling mechanic. If they are determined to have shield as a balanced, viable, competitive thing, sooner or later we will get there.
- 2
26 Mar
ShovonemYea I honestly think it would be nice to have an archer-focused throwing weapon like Javeline in Mordhau. But if the devs want to use short spear as that maybe reduce short spear cost to 4 so you can carry 3 of them and still have some armor. In addition, having the ability to hold the spear on throwing pose like holding a crossbow. Melee could be nerfed a bit if necessary.
Also can't wait for staff sling.
https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/13400/byzantine-hand-trebuchet-staff-sling/#c13
- 1
23 Mar
ShovonemHonestly I also wanted 2 handed club to be in the game. However, when I imagined it, I thought of the club pictures you posted. Solid weapon for any armored soldier. Current club looks like a poor man's weapon. Also, cudgel when.
22 Mar
ShovonemYou're welcome.
- 1
18 Mar
ShovonemI personally do not mind that horses are sort of OP as they are pretty much vehicles.
Shield balancing aside, I believe it would be cool if shield can play a role as a defensive tool against horses but not something that will just neutralize them.
I think if someone block a couched spear with a shield, their stamina should go to complete 0, shield disarmed and they should ragdoll in the ground like people do currently when hit by catapults.
Obviously if you are in the heat of battle surrounded by enemies or 1 v 1 ing the horse, you would still get destroyed. However, this can also create interesting moments like if you're using shield and you see a team mate almost being ambushed by a horse, you can save him by taking the hit on shield and risking your life (roleplayer intensifies) as you're completely vulnerable with 0 stamina, shield disarmed and ragdolled on the ground. Shield could also be broken on Impact making them one time use defense but that might be too much idk.
Feel free to give any feedback.
- 1
17 Mar
ShovonemI agree with a lot of the points you described @Rhike.
I think they could do something about the Inventory too... like in some other BR games you can not just have multiple powerful guns. In mordhau, you can carry multiple Eveningstar/Zwei/Halberd. Sometimes even if you run out of stamina you can just pull out your 2nd Eveningstar.
I believe it should be something like:
I also think bandages, ranged, shield should spawn more. High tier weapons should spawn a lot less. I believe BR should be the mode where people have to use both ranged and melee equally and efficiently to win. Spawning more Pavise, kite shield can also help against archers.
16 Mar
ShovonemYeah I think if capturing each point required some kind of objective it could be nice. But that objective can not be just like in chivalry since it can go both ways. For Example, the middle objective of Frontline could require bringing a siege tower to the point. Both team will have their tower. If team A comes to the point with their tower, they will cap it. To take that back, Team B need to destroy that tower and bring their own tower. Once a tower is destroyed it will Respawn/automatically built on the team's base. Thus the objective going both ways. Just a theory.
16 Mar
ShovonemPushing cart was my favourite part of maps in Chivalry.. especially for Dark Forest and Stoneshill map. I don't care much about killing peasents/kings cause I hate fighting bots in multiplayer games. I think Frontline could use some cart objective at the very least.
16 Mar
ShovonemI get what you are saying in terms of realistic and all that but Mordhau does not aim to be that game. Feints, drags, morphs, chambers give mordhau the insane high skill ceiling that it has right now. At current stage, shield doesn't. Team fight do require a lot of other skills outside of basic dueling skills like positioning, target switch, fake target switch etc. What you are saying sounds cool on theory but it conflicts with the very fundamentals of Mordhau. However, I hate when people cry, "remove shield/shield is OP" instead of actually making any effort of balance it.