Mordhau
 Badass_Ben
  • Likes received 42
  • Date joined 14 Jun
  • Last seen 7 Sep

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84 42
  • 31 Jul
 Badass_Ben

1st off, I think having a degree of a accel/drag mechanic is important to keep timings dynamic, and mix things up
HOWEVER, I think EXTREME drags are broken, from a realism perspective which leads into a gameplay issue.

Realistically, speaking, at the very start and end of a swing, you have very low momentum.
Momentum being P=MV with M= mass and V= velocity.
It takes TIME to accelerate a swing, to a velocity which has enough momentum to do damage. And because our weapons don't go flying out of our hands, it takes time at the end to decelerate the swing and return velocity back to 0.

A weapon swing at the VERY start of a swing and very end, is inherently not much of a threat, ESPECIALLY for an armored fighter.

And this makes it inherently unfair/difficult to fight extreme drags because its very hard to actually view a weapon through any practical lens as our sense of reality doesn't really apply.

I see a sword be raised up, I don't parry immediately as it takes TIME for momentum to build and no good swordsman would want to make an entirely ineffective swing, so I wait for the swing to come down- yet the instant the windup is done, I take full damage: uh wut?

Alternatively, my opponent im facing takes left-right swing (my perspective). I sidestep to his right, getting out of the "effective swing" of his sword, but I still take full damage because the tip grazed me at the end of his swing: uh wut?

This results in really weird looking fights with people seemingly cutting people's heads off at the very end of their swing, which doesn't make sense. It also makes feints stronger than they should be. Against someone who mixes up extreme dragging with feints, its literally impossible to read because you either parry on the windup (which he can feint) or you don't (at which point he damages you immediately, never giving you a chance to parry the release of the swing)

Solution is rather simple, the 1st 1/5th and last 1/5th (just picking estimated values here, can be adjusted) should do sub 10 dmg (regardless of weapon) and NOT cause a flinch.
Going for even more realism, you could make it factored by armor as well. An ineffective swing against T3 armor should literally do nothing, where as someone un armored could still be cut, or be punctured through their skin.

84 42
  • 31 Jul
 Badass_Ben

After using the BS almost exclusively, using an Arming Sword I swear I have MORE reach than the BS
The instances of swings that OBVIOUSLY should have connected failing to register is MUCH less using an Arming Sword

I think that needs to be looked at

84 42
  • 30 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@LoPan said:
I don’t rly have a problem w messer. Enough ppl use it to be used to the range/animations by now. However, I think reworking it’s hitbox so you aren’t hitting/being hit when it doesn’t even contact you would be an acceptable change. It does seem to be larger than the actual model.

100% agree

I see a swing coming, by simple observation I deduce that I am out of range, don't bother to parry, see the sword pass IN FRONT OF ME, --> take damage
lol wut?

84 42
  • 30 Jul
 Badass_Ben

ill start uploading clips here

But as someone who uses the Bastard sword almost exclusively, so many times where I would think "im obviously in range" only to have the weapon somehow not reach the target

84 42
  • 23 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
He was riposting. Do you not know that ripostes can't be flinched?

That is 100% false, I am constantly interrupted in the middle of my riposte in 1vX fights

84 42
  • 23 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Ive noticed that the following happens QUITE frequently as of late, even getting a hit on my opponent while he is winding up still results in the swing going through. Anyone else notice this?

84 42
  • 18 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Ive noticed a recent FREQUENT trend of the following
I can tell a player is getting up on me for a kick, so I back pedal, he kicks (and I cant be any closer or I would get hit)
I stab (bastard sword) and somehow I am out of range?

Also, the Messer DEFINITELY hits farther than its model lets on
I have so many times seen the weapon swing clearly in front of me, yet I still get hit.

84 42
  • 13 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Keep in mind, im only thinking like "kick range close"
At THAT range, as someone said, your best option would be to try to give yourself more distance. It wouldn't be too severe of a nerf, but it would make 2handers a little less "power without drawback"

84 42
  • 12 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@Gambit said:
There's no point in this. Long weapons are slow, short weapons are fast. Why should long weapons have another disadvantage?

if long vs short weapons were equally balanced, you would see an equal number of them

We don't
Its obvious two handers are dominant.

84 42
  • 12 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Think of the long spear for example, if I get in PAST the tip, closer to you than the tip of your weapon, you should basically be defenseless.
(Spearmen historically fared EXTREMELY poorly vs swordsmen in close combat)

Even long twohanded swords, if im up against you, you shouldn't have the room to conduct a swing, and the EXTREME closeness of the target should mean you cant really build up momentum in your swing keeping damage minimal

We talk about how 2handers are the absolute meta rn (excluding rapiers) and its because long weapons have all the benefits and only some of the drawbacks associated with them.

84 42
  • 12 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Perhaps we should have a "hardcore mode" with
-Increased damage across the board
-Increased Damage multipliers (eg swords become even less effective vs Plate armor, hammers INCREASED damage vs plate armor, etc)
-Tighter parry boxes (eg, players need to ACTUALLY look for the tip of the weapon instead of just parrying while looking at the center of the opponent
-Increased Stamina drain: instead of moves draining MORE, more MOVES drain stamina (connecting hits still eat stamina and what not)
-Swing stop on enemies as well as friendlies (lets be honest, a sword cant cut through 3 players in plate because nobody parried)

84 42
  • 11 Jul
 Badass_Ben

I get Frontline is mostly just for fun, but its no fun when your team is so bad they get steam ran and match is over in the first 3 minutes.

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@DrGert said:
I understand what your saying but the realism argument does not hold weight. This is a video game. And not even an extremely realistic one at that.

The only thing that matters is, does it feel interactive or fun to play with or against a shield. The answer to both of those is commonly, no.

It’s not about playing smarter. Shields are just not in the right place. A rework is definitely needed.

I respectfully have to disagree with your first statement. Yes, it is a video game, HOWEVER, can you name another more realistic sword fighting game? Not really. There are 1 or 2 you could argue, but I remember back when Mordhau was FIRST announced and I was watching the dev talk, they were talking a LOT about realism. They wanted to make a RELATIVELY realistic sword fighting game, hence the ability to do all these fancy moves such as chambering and parrying, AND having REALISTIC abilities such as throwing a pommel, alternate grips, etc. They wanted Swords to be comparatively ineffective vs plate, compared to blunt weapons, and so on.

So im not saying this is or is supposed to be any sort of simulator, and I agree balance is priority, BUT, a medieval sword fighting game without shields is like a shooter without grenades. Yes, you could get away with it, but lets be honest, it would be missing something.

OVERALL, the performance of shields doesn't feel TOO far off (but I agree, tweaks to things such as kicks and other mechanics need work)
People talk about shields having an insane parry area perhaps have never actually watched or seen a sword fight with shields (I get nerdy into this stuff). Except for extreme instances where I swing into an enemy's back, to only have my strike deflected by his shield IN FRONT of him, hitting around a shield is and should be EXTREMELY difficult. If someone is FACING you with a shield, its borderline impossible without specially designed weapons. The romans faced such a weapon in Germania, blanking on the name, but it was designed such that it could be swung at a shield user and it would reach around and pierce his side, OR hook onto the shield itself to allow the fighter to PULL the shield away from its user.

But other than that, its not really possible.

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:
Play SMARTER

oh wise one, please enlighten us on these advanced high IQ strategies you use to defeat shield users

Honestly, relentless attacks takes care of em pretty quick.
You KNOW you have the stamina edge, play that

your idea is to spam lmb

holy shit why did I never think of this before wtf....

I know you are being sarcastic, but it is a fact. Relentless attacks tire out shield users quite fast, especially Heater shields. Kite's take some more work.

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@Badass_Ben said:

@DrGert said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:
Play SMARTER

oh wise one, please enlighten us on these advanced high IQ strategies you use to defeat shield users

Honestly, relentless attacks takes care of em pretty quick.
You KNOW you have the stamina edge, play that

Keeping the pressure up works for duels sometimes but this is literally the worst strategy or advice you could give for frontline. No one has the luxury having enough time in frontline to play the stamina game. And to be honest frontline is where the majority of shield frustration comes from. 95%+ of duel server population is 2 handers or targe + 1 hander.

Frontline is supposed to SOMEWHAT represent a medieval battlefield of massive teams fighting each other. As in IRL, yes, shields are going to be stronger in a team situation than in a duel situation. But if you can win your duels, it means you can kill the 1 guy facing you, and then go on to help the rest of your teammates.

Defensively, The TRUE strength of shields is the fact that SINCE it takes longer to kill you, you have a higher likelihood of having teammates come and support you before you are killed. That's how it works in reality and there is nothing wrong with having that in game. 2-handers still lead the leaderboards almost always anyways.

I forgot which documentary it was, it was years ago, but it was talking about ancient warfare, and how between two clashing armies, with shields, it WAS very hard to kill the opponent in front of them, so the most effective tactic was to stab the guy your teammate NEXT to you was fighting. That's how the whole idea of "Pawns" in chess came about, how they cant kill RIGHT in front of them, but could more effectively kill opponents that were offset because they would have a better angle to get past a shield.

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@DrGert said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:
Play SMARTER

oh wise one, please enlighten us on these advanced high IQ strategies you use to defeat shield users

Honestly, relentless attacks takes care of em pretty quick.
You KNOW you have the stamina edge, play that

Keeping the pressure up works for duels sometimes but this is literally the worst strategy or advice you could give for frontline. No one has the luxury having enough time in frontline to play the stamina game. And to be honest frontline is where the majority of shield frustration comes from. 95%+ of duel server population is 2 handers or targe + 1 hander.

Frontline is supposed to SOMEWHAT represent a medieval battlefield of massive teams fighting each other. As in IRL, yes, shields are going to be stronger in a team situation than in a duel situation. But if you can win your duels, it means you can kill the 1 guy facing you, and then go on to help the rest of your teammates.

Defensively, The TRUE strength of shields is the fact that SINCE it takes longer to kill you, you have a higher likelihood of having teammates come and support you before you are killed. That's how it works in reality and there is nothing wrong with having that in game. 2-handers still lead the leaderboards almost always anyways.

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:
Play SMARTER

oh wise one, please enlighten us on these advanced high IQ strategies you use to defeat shield users

Honestly, relentless attacks takes care of em pretty quick.
You KNOW you have the stamina edge, play that

84 42
  • 10 Jul
 Badass_Ben

Realistically, the biggest decider of a fight was OFTEN stamina.
That's why the Roman army was so superb in its hey-day, because the entire tactic of the Legionary unit was to use its formation to cycle through its men so the guys fighting were always fresh, against an ever-tiring opponent.

Shields take LONGER to kill (that is their whole point) and are a direct counter to feint-spammers. But are not "harder" to kill.

People say shields are for noobs, yet my friend who JUST got the game (no Chivalry experience) started MVPing teams just by using an Executioner sword and swinging like crazy (Frontline)

Someone brought up the valid point of 3rd person with shields negating a significant drawback they are SUPPOSED to have, which is reduced visibility. I only use 1st person, and im fine with 3rd person being limited when someone equips a shield, not sure how that would work. Or have servers with 1st person only allowed, idk.

But at the end of the day, if you cant beat a shield, ur bad.
If you rely on feint spamming, you are not good
Play SMARTER

Ive always wished since Chivalry that stamina played a BIGGER role than it does currently
Reduced Recovery rate, even swings that hit take stamina, etc.

84 42
  • 9 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@Erwinicus said:
I'm sorry that you magical force field has a weakness.

It is a shield?
How is that magical?
TECHNICALLY, shields are infact WEAKER in game than in reality

84 42
  • 9 Jul
 Badass_Ben

@Gambit said:
You can block them with a kick though. And unless you're holding a parry there's only a small window a kick is useful. In 350 hours I've never had an issue with people kicking me too much, so maybe you're just using the shield too much? Play more offensive if anything.

Even non-shield users
Facing 2 or more who do nothing but kick, you get stun locked with no way to break it.