Mordhau
 Badass_Ben
  • Likes received 42
  • Date joined 14 Jun '19
  • Last seen 5 Jan

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86 42
  • 21 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

Nothing wrong with some weapons being better in team games than in duels, and vice versa

IRL, no one in their right mind would duel with a 2-handed spear

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@qbmax said:
^

I still believe that several weapons DO need changing to their turncaps and animations but again, the rest of the combat is great. The fact of the matter is that people with always find a way to play the game optimally at higher levels, and in this case, optimally is using weapon animations and good bodyfeinting to win fights. Complaining that people are using the systems and mechanics given to them is dumb.

By that logic, someone using an a glitch within a game is perfectly legit as it is part of the "system and mechanics given to them"
We need to figure out WHAT kinda sword fighting game this game INTENDS to be and reinforce such gameplay, lest it end up like Chivalry.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
I honestly have no other thing to call you people other than "stupid"

Realism can go well with a game, yes, but realism does not equal good game mechanics. Saying "this game mechanic is bad because it's unrealistic" is not a fucking argument. Mordhau is not realistic, it is not attempting to be realistic, and it is not a game that prioritizes realism over actually good gameplay.

You are literally contradicting yourself in your own post
"Realism can go well with a game"
"Realism does not equal good game mechanics"

that isn't a contradiction holy shit why am I cursed to speak to such creatures

I give up, if your reading comprehension is this poor then there is no reason for me to continue speaking with you

Says the troll

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
I honestly have no other thing to call you people other than "stupid"

Realism can go well with a game, yes, but realism does not equal good game mechanics. Saying "this game mechanic is bad because it's unrealistic" is not a fucking argument. Mordhau is not realistic, it is not attempting to be realistic, and it is not a game that prioritizes realism over actually good gameplay.

You are literally contradicting yourself in your own post
"Realism can go well with a game"
"Realism does not equal good game mechanics"

All the games in the list I posted are realistic games that use REALITY and REALISTIC limitations to make games enjoyable.

I specifically remember the devs saying they wanted to make a semi-realistic sword fighting game, when they talked about wanting swords to be weaker vs plate armor than padded armor, and hammers and other crushing weapons more powerful. That is the whole reason I followed and bought the game in the first place
I enjoy reality based games for things I cant go out and do IRL.

MOST aspects of this game have a STRONG BASIS in reality
Hence why the weapons we use are based on their REAL LIFE counterparts
Why wearing armor reduces incoming damage, but reduces speed. These are all part of the game because that is how the world ACTUALLY works.

In before someone says "well healing overtime isn't realistic"
Its a spectrum, from 100% fantasy to 100% reality, and everything in between. No game wants 100% reality because a lot of time reality sucks. But you can have high levels of realism in the fundamental game mechanics. Healing quickly between fights doesn't impact the flow of play (except for bloodlust). Being hit instantly by a supposedly "slow" and heavy weapon does.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@SWSeriousMike said:
I don't know most of those games, but claiming that Mount and Blade is realistic is hilarious.

I never played Mount and Blade really (I Heard it was realistic and I wanted to tag something that wasn't just a shooter milsim)
So you got me there

But my point that realistic games exist and can be fun, fair, and enjoyable is supported.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
if you say "realism" or "realistically" or any variation of that one more fucking time i'm gonna find you and i'm gonna make you play video games until you stop being so fucking stupid

What? They cant go together?
Guess you are the one lacking in video game experience

ARMA
SQUAD
Mount and Blade
Red Orchestra
Rising Storm
Escape from Tarkov
All games that implement high degrees of realism in their games

GTFO

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:

@vector said:

@BOBOLOJOE said:

@ToLazy4Name said:

@BOBOLOJOE said:
people with high mouse sensitivity spinning around on the spot at a million miles per hour. its a lol, but not realistic.

If you mean while swinging, you're wrong. Your sensitivity is capped while attacking.

If you mean while not swinging, why is this an issue? You want to limit sensitivity in general? I'm going to assume you're not so stupid as to actually be thinking this.

I mean while not swinging. Michael Jackson and a figure skater can spin around on the spot at really high speeds but in Mordhau it looks silly.
What I am meaning is that like for example tapping very fast the crouch button, and spinning your character around on the spot really fast, say, making long swipes with your mouse across your mouse pad to make your character do 10, 360 degree spins in .5 of a second is silly.

I don't want to limit sensitivity, i want to limit how fast your character can do these actions, to better represent how a person could do it in real life.

it's not game braking and no one is doing this to exploit the mechanics. it's just an immersion thing.

even very fast looking up and down. it just needs to be slowed down so that its at a real person speed not computer character speed.
you feelin me bro?

you are right about turning round on a speed of light

but what you guys are talking about is impossible. you literally cannot swing 360 even once (let alone 10 times lmao) due to the fact that once the swing is "activated" it breaks down your mouse sensivity to the point where you can't even do a 180 (or maybe you can if you are lucky, but definitely not a 360).

unless you ran into a hacker, this is an impossibility, fundamentally.

I mean ive definitely run into players who run away from you, start a swing, and then turn back TOWARDS you last second so it hits.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

I honestly still think the best option is the ends and starts of swings do minimal damage due to little to know momentum
Keeps drags valid, but it reduces their power (realistically)

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@LuxCandidus said:
This is extremely basic as far as skill and deceptive swing / character manipulation go. Using body movement to enhance your feint is completely intended, and it is also necessary, because after several hundred hours you will be able to read basic feints where your opponent simply stands still and swings but cancels their attack. You will be able to read plenty of bodyfeints too. This 'mechanic' is what ensures that performing a feint takes skill, because simply pressing Q will not work at a high level.

I don't have an issue of SUBTLE body movements, but like my comment above
Making a weapon COME DOWN on a player's character for it to only be a "magical feint" is BS.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@ToLazy4Name said:
"contort"

LOOKING DOWN IS EXPLOITING

Again, missing the point
Making a swing come down with velocity and therefore momentum should NOT be considered a feint. That is a committed swing

isn't that just called a missed swing?.... i sometimes do that deliberately to throw off my opponent... sure it costs a bit of stamina, but you won't need that stamina if he falls for it and you get 1-2 consecutive hits.

That is different though
What im talking, the simplest situation:
Is someone performs an overhead feint, but looks down with it
From my perspective: this results in his weapon COMING DOWN ONTO MY CHARACTER
By any definition, that is an attack and I go to parry, but because it is a "feint" he can then immediately follow up with a real attack.

You don't get to expend energy into momentum for it to just "not" have momentum as an attack.
That's the issue

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
"contort"

LOOKING DOWN IS EXPLOITING

Again, missing the point
Making a swing come down with velocity and therefore momentum should NOT be considered a feint. That is a committed swing

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
how does the video game not have any meaning to the discussion about the video game

you are bad and can't read a basic feint

I have zero issue with "basic feints"
Its when people contort themselves and their weapons in direct opposition to how physics actually works, making something 100% counterintuitive to how it should be.

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
I know something about video game though unlike you

Baseless statement that has no meaning to this discussion

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
no that's how a feint works how about that BADDIE

Then you know nothing of either sword-fighting nor of physics

86 42
  • 3 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
it's a feint because it's supposed to look like a strike and fool people you absolute weirdo

stop being bad

Except that isn't how feinting works
If the weapon comes down with speed it has momentum, that is a strike, no matter how you look at it.

86 42
  • 2 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Badass_Ben said:

@Goof said:
You have a turncap while attacking, plus after so far the attack only whiffs. So ballerinas really aren't a thing here.

You can spin as fast as you want to between attacks, but if you can't keep yourself from panicking when you see someone do a quick spin before attacking - that's your problem.

TLDR - Git gud.

Kinda missing the point
For example, ran into this today in Duels
A player with a Maul would overhead feint, BUT< he would aggressively look straight down, causing the tip of the weapon to come down on me (exactly like a swing), except it was a feint. Id parry, and then inevitably get hit.

Not sure how one would fix that, but you shouldn't be able to move a weapon such that its arc is identical to a real swing, only to be a feint.

you're complaining about basic game mechanics

please stop

That is mechanic abuse.
I don't remember seeing moves like that in the trailers and promotionals for this game? Or even in the Tutorial.

It is players pushing the limits of mechanics to cheese their way to a win, as opposed to actually playing smart by setting a rhythm of a fight, and then suddenly changing it. Or using the plethora of other tools at their disposal to defeat an opponent. All of which can be done WITHOUT cheesing mechanics.

A player should NOT be able to make a weapon MOVE like an ACTUAL STRIKE and still get to call it a "feint". A feint implies you don't put momentum behind it, which implies a specific appearance of swing.
It is the whole principle of physics and momentum.

86 42
  • 2 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ArmedSpartan said:

@BOBOLOJOE said:
in the game, with a flick of my wrist, i can turn my character 180 or 360 in like .1 a second.

in reality it's more like .5 a second

can't find a video example but in this clip the squats are too fast. funny but not realistic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsN9efR6miI
again turning your body, on the spot, 180 or 360 or 50million degrees is so fast it's blurry and I think immersion would be improved if there was a max speed you could move your body this way.

the only time in combat i think that it's a bad, and ive done this before, you hear somoene come up behind you and swing, so you can almost instantly turn around and parry, then turn back around and carry on forwards all seemingly within a split second

Mordhau isn't meant to portray Historical European Martial arts. Nor is it a Medieval Mil-sim game, It's supposed to be fun, and skillful, without being fully realistic. If you want a game like this, play KCD.

I am curious what KCD is
But anyways, I remember when the game was FIRST announced, before alpha or anything, I was listening to the devs talk about wanting to make a semi-realistic sword fighting game. That's what got my attention, and what I loved about early Chivalry release was it felt like a reasonably realistic sword fighting game, without being annoyingly so. But when you have these players who contort their bodies to make their weapons move in a blatant defiance of physics, it really pulls me out of the game.

It would be like a shooter with bullet travel time, except you could make your bullet stop mid air, and resume when you wanted. It would make gunfights just not make sense, as some swordfights do in this game.

86 42
  • 2 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@Goof said:
You have a turncap while attacking, plus after so far the attack only whiffs. So ballerinas really aren't a thing here.

You can spin as fast as you want to between attacks, but if you can't keep yourself from panicking when you see someone do a quick spin before attacking - that's your problem.

TLDR - Git gud.

Kinda missing the point
For example, ran into this today in Duels
A player with a Maul would overhead feint, BUT< he would aggressively look straight down, causing the tip of the weapon to come down on me (exactly like a swing), except it was a feint. Id parry, and then inevitably get hit.

Not sure how one would fix that, but you shouldn't be able to move a weapon such that its arc is identical to a real swing, only to be a feint.

86 42
  • 1 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

I bought Chivalry when it first came out and LOVED IT. However, as a lot of us know, overtime, eventually the exploits and abuse of the mechanics within the game became wide known, and "ballerinas" took over. Long gone were the semi-realistic, cool looking, and enjoyable sword fights.

Instead, it was everyone doing overheads, while facing the opposite way to catch opponents at the VERY start of their swings, running away from an opponent, starting a swing, only to turn back at the last possible second to make it count as a hit.

Once Chivalry fell into that cesspool of what I called "mechanic abuse", I uninstalled. The game was no longer about skill, but who could "break" the mechanics the best.

I had long been looking for a semi-realistic sword fighting game after that. Tried mount and Blade, but it reminded me of ARMA in terms of the clunkiness associated with it. Objectively good game, but not something I could quite get into. I tried For Honor, but it was a little too arcadeish for my tastes.
Then I hear about Mordhau (WAYYY back when it was only an idea, not even Alpha was up) and was watching the devs talk about wanting to make a "semi realistic" sword fighting game. (hence the ideas of Blades being comparatively weak vs plate, and hammers strong, being able to switch grips to engage different types of opponents, etc)
Loved the idea, loved the initial footage.
It looked like the Good of Chivalry, with the bad removed, and a ton more.

HOWEVER present day, I have to say, im finding more and more "ballerinas" in servers. Players hopping up and down, and contorting their bodies in impossible ways to make impossible swings do way more damage than they deserve, and the fun is starting to die fast.

I used to play Frontline, but the total lack of team balancing makes it too much of a crapshoot as to whether you will be completely rolled over, or if you will have zero challenge at all.
And ive always enjoyed Duels in any fighting game, where you can get good at the finer aspects of the mechanics, and try to test your skills without being stabbed in the back, hit by a catapult, or ran over by a horse.

I REALLY hope the devs will do SOMETHING to bring players back to semi-realistic behavior to get to the top of leaderboards, instead of who can contort their bodies the weirdest.

86 42
  • 1 Aug '19
 Badass_Ben

@ToLazy4Name said:
You need to counter by going for a chamber attempt and immediately cftp if he drags it. Also, stop basing your balance opinions on duels.

In the second clip, you can see that I DO go for a chamber
I don't know what CFTP means though.

Duels is where the finesse of the melee system comes out.
Frontline/Team modes are just a clusterfudge and THEY should not be used for balance.
Besides, my suggested changes wouldn't really impact any team mode significantly.