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Far be it from me to make balance changes to shields as I've had hardly any playtime with them before they started getting completely overhauled every month.

But why not start from scratch? Then give shields only the following qualities:

  • Can hold block by simply holding the parry button. Parry timing is not required.
  • You cannot riposte. At all.
  • Maybe, maybe re-introduce a quick counter like kicks so shield turtles don't take half a year to kill in FL/INV. Maybe. If kicks aren't so fast and easy anymore in the future.

...and then just balance them from there if needed.

Their stamina negation would be the same as normal weapons, maybe slightly worse. No different keys for different types of blocking. No hidden movement speed debuff. Keep it simple.

The end result would be (as far as I can predict) that shields are great in teamfights again. For duels you can use a shield (if you're having trouble reading drags or feints) but you'll generally want to quickly un-equip it for the ability to riposte, otherwise you'll eventually lose the stamina game by having to chamber in order to ever gain initiative.


I don't know if this would be useless or overpowered. It just seems better than having overly complex shields that don't serve a purpose.

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@bobbydigital said:
Ammo box placements seem unbalanced but might just be that I haven't got used to the map yet but generally it's just a running simulator map, I just leave it when it comes on and join another server.

Holy shit yes, the ammo box placement in Castello and Mountain Peak (Invasion) are possibly the worst I've ever seen. Especially in Castello where, during the entire 1st and 2nd objective as attacking team, you basically have to sneak directly into the enemy spawn just to get some ammo back.

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@xXLuxXx said:
There are multiple threads saying "3rd person will never be removed" from the developers.

Well then it's a good thing they haven't removed 3rd person. Your point being?

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48 is much better than 64 IMO. I hope they even introduce some 32p or 24p servers.

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One of the more commonly discussed issues in Mordhau is how everyone runs around in pubs using Halberd, Zwei or Maul with the occasional Bloodlust slapped on top. There's little to no variety because literally any other playstyle is deliberally handicapping yourself. Just go in with a heavy hitter and LMB riposte your way around the map.

I'm going to rant on what contributes to this problem, comparing Mordhau to Chivalry and various other multiplayer games. Most of the below issues revolve around Mordhau's lack of a proper support playstyle.


1. Shields still haven't found their place in the game.
From the theoretical perspective of a new player, held shields (Heater and Kite) have lower stamina values than you'd expect, behave completely differently from shields in literally any other videogame and their riot mode has been nerfed/changed so drastically that the current speed makes no logical sense. Why does it suddenly take so much effort to lift up the shield when you can parry with it instantly?

Honestly I don't know what to do with shields but I think they were closer to whatever role they're meant to fill on release day than they are now.


2. Toolbox feels underdeveloped and most of its usefulness isn't rewarded with points.
The assists when someone else uses your ballista is a good idea. But what do I get for enemies having to destroy my walls? Teammates using my fire pits? The only rewarding way I found to play "a toolbox build" is to barely use the toolbox at all; just place down a ballista after you spawn, pick a weapon off the ground and go play as you usually would while acquiring the occasional ballista assist.


3. Medbags offer no alternative playstyle or focus.
Playing a "medic" in Mordhau is 99% the same as any other loadout. The only difference is that you throw some shit on the floor before the fight starts.
A more active method of supporting your teammates wouldn't be out of place in Mordhau. This could be anything, ranging from manually healing a teammate yourself or blowing on a war horn to apply a temporary stamina regen bonus to nearby allies.


4. Everything in Mordhau works together to make Archery as bland as possible.
Bows/crossbows don't deal as much raw damage as they did in Chivalry (thank god), but also cost a lot of points, deal with aiming sway, get disarmed on hit, have slow projectiles, have generally worse stats than almost any throwable (with the exception of ammo) and there's a perk (Huntsman) designed to counter them even more.

But what is there to make up for all this? Even Billhook and blunt weapons have special negative effects applied on hits, why not arrows? There's even already a system in place for plucking arrows out of your body/armor. What if arrows and bolts apply a stackable debuff? Or prevent health regeneration?


5. Almost every weapon has an alt mode, and as such almost any weapon can fill almost any role.
The downside of adding alternate grips to a lot of weapons is that they actually reduce weapon variety - both by making many weapons fill a similar role but also potentially rendering some weapons/modes obsolete.

Mordhau grip is similar to any blunt weapon. Bastard Sword and Messer both have alt grips that don't make logical sense (two-handed deals less damage against wood?) nor are consistent with each other (BS has better stamina values two-handed over one-handed, Messer doesn't). Estoc's main mode and Greatsword/Zweihander/Spear's alt modes can all be grouped together. I'm glad I'm not in charge of balance changes in this game because I can't imagine how many other weapons I need to take into account while changing one.

Then there's the spear, a weapon which theoretically should be the ultimate support weapon (and is often still seen as one). In Chivalry it was indeed a great support weapon because it was balanced around its lack of a helpful alt-mode.
But in Mordhau the overall reduced lunge, reduced knockback (and 0 knockback on chambers), reduced range and the recently added movement speed penalty all ensure that any kind of possible range advantage is immediately lost after your first attack. It's still a good weapon but that's because, like every other weapon, its alt grip makes up for any shortcomings of its main grip.


6. Amount of opponents correlates to the effectiveness of the current main playstyle.
The 48p and 64p player servers may leave a decent first impression on newcomers but they offer Mordhau's gameplay in its most dumbed down form. Why go with light armor if you'll just get one-shot the next time you (inevitably) get hit by some random unforeseeable arrow, explosion or swing? Why wouldn't you go with Bloodlust if the map is filled with free, living healthpacks all eager to jump into your next riposte? What's the point of carefully strategizing the placement of Toolbox structures if at least 10 players on each team have firebombs?

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I let an attractive intern at work borrow my USB-stick for the day without checking its contents first.

The root folder contained some adult films I downloaded.

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Once again proving that those foam Minecraft swords you can buy online for ~$6 are genuinely viable weapons and Mordhau has no excuse not to add them in an upcoming patch.

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I think you're slightly over-complicating matters.

Weaponry point cost doesn't directly correlate with their overall usefulness nor their raw damage. The only discernible pattern to be found when looking at the most expensive weapons is that they've got long reach. Longbow and Spear are great support weapons. Halberd and Zwei are arguably the two safest 1vX weapons in the game. You're paying for range, stamina management, safety and a low TTK per enemy.

A Zweihander is expensive, true, but worth its asking price when we're considering a large group engagement scenario. But it's certainly not my weapon of choice for 1v1. Arming Sword, Shortsword, Dagger, Cleaver, Bastard Sword, Longsword... It's not exactly a secret that these weapons are far better in 1v1 than some of the more expensive options.

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While I disagree with Spear or any such weapon being OP, it's certainly not a general issue with "stab-centric" weapons.

Rusty fork buff when? It's so predictable and its swings only deal like 10 damage. I want a fast meme weapon like Chivalry's Fork.

Also "too damn OP" doesn't make sense. Are you saying these weapons should be overpowered, just not as much as they are now?

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I like this idea, especially now that the point cap is increased and nearly all my loadouts suddenly have tons of free points I don't really use.

While I'm fine with any bonus no matter how minor, I'm not sure extra stamina would work without making Second Wind redundant.

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@Snake Skin said:
They removed Tourney from the base game and you now have to download it as a mod, why is this not listed?
Or did that happen in an earlier patch?

Tourney is certainly still in the game. You probably connected to a server that was running some other mod(s) you had to install.

Which does remind me that modded servers/custom maps should have some kind of special color in the server browser. I'm getting so sick of clicking on a seemingly vanilla server and then suddenly "DOWNLOADING MODS... (946 MB)"

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I think he means what the devs are prioritizing, which is definitely competitive over casual.

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@Snow82a30c05909f4583 said:
I agree with this completely. I'm going to hit teammates anyway, why not let me swing through?

Try actually not hitting teammates. Hope this helps.

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@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Damn, Patch 17 came with a whole new load out system... and yall couldn't even make HHA more expensive? Or give it any kind of adjustment?

It's been made less floaty, needs two headshots to 2HTK heavy armor now and its blunt side has significantly reduced damage so its only use now is for repairing.

Dunno if it still needs further adjustments - but if it does then I'd suggest buffing engineers in the same patch because HHA is the only thing keeping them relevant.

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Currently the ability to see your target's name and alliance is using the same setting as seeing their healthbar: it's the "Target Info" checkbox under HUD settings.

I don't really care for the new healthbar but I can't turn it off without going completely blind as to who I'm fighting. Could they be separate options?

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Okay I take back what I said about the copy-paste king objectives. They're actually implemented really well in Mountain Peak and Castello.

The torch objectives though... it takes a lot of suspension of disbelief. Running around throwing torches at small piles of books when we could just rip them ourselves or... you know, use the torch to burn them without throwing it like a caveman.

Most of the objectives are fairly good from a gameplay-perspective but logically they make 0 sense.

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@PC_Principal said:

@^--^ Maximus ^--^ said:
cheaters there will always be, in any game. People have been reporting a lot of cheaters and I although I myself haven't ran into such players (at least that I know of) there seems to be an increase in their amount for whatever reason. I don't know what anti-cheat system the game uses or if there is any, but as far as I've heard the devs and moderators always ban such people when they are reported with evidence of cheating. honestly the slow but sure solution is for players in pubs to watch out and spectate anyone they feel is cheating ( I don't do that ever hense why I Probably haven't seen any cheaters) and report their steam ID and record their gameplay for evidence. I wouldn't say there are that many cheaters out there but you never know. Also with the game being almost a year old, the average player has gotten better due to the vast amount of resourceful tutorials online so it's a little harder to tell if someone is cheating or not, but most cheats are fairly obvious. like when someone is surrounded by enemies and constantly block every single coming from 5-6 different directions they're prob cheating. So that's my take on it. Also I agree with what Jax said.

No. There are games where you can't cheat. Store / calc everything on your server and that's it.
Mordhau had .ini text files that every 9 year old could edit. They said it's fixed, but I know deep in my heart it's not and ppl still just edit .ini files to get better attack and recovery times. I asked if I should mess with random files and they said no.

You cannot change weapon attack and recovery times by editing .ini files.

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@Aodlop said:
Because stab weapons are not healthy parts of the game and need bigger drawbacks in exchange for the ability to spam mouse wheel up all the time.

Their drawback is that they're by far the easiest weapons to chamber and dodge.

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Why is the realism argument still a thing? It's just a funny ragdoll game.

Regenerating all your health after receiving a torso stab shouldn't take two years. The game shouldn't uninstall itself after dying once. And weapons shouldn't break just because you're good at parrying and staying alive.