Mordhau
 GIRUGIRU
Knight
  • Likes received 605
  • Date joined 25 Oct '15
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Private Message

Knight 203 605
  • 15 Jul
 GIRUGIRU

People saying feints were consistently punishable in Chivalry are utterly wrong. Even with compmod where we balanced the feint recovery to give weapons very similar punishment windows there were cases where weapons wouldn't be able to reliable punish others even when factoring the speed of a reverse , just due to the nature of windup and swing arcs

Knowing when you can punish is a skill in of itself and it was so in Chivalry. I know that I can't punish BS feints with ES chambers so I have to FTP out, yet that still will win me a net Stam war regardless

If you increase feint recovery any further in Mordhau you wont be able to do convincing feints and will be forced to microfeint constantly. If you are unable to punish misses and feints in Mordhau currently it's simply a learn to play issue - if you feel as though you want to punish EVERY feint you read then there are tons of weapons which will allow for that, consistently, such as bastard sword, Mordhau grip longsword, rapier, baxe, bardiche. I personally don't have any issues punishing with normal longsword itself

Knight 203 605
  • 12 Jul
 GIRUGIRU

don't get me wrong, i played a fair amount of M&B and when i streamed it i had alot of big boy comp players with 3k+ come whoop my ass and show me the ropes. The game has a high amount of skill in it, however anything outside 1v1 is abit of a meme and the gameplay just simply isn't that exciting to watch as the mechanics are so shallow and the fights look the same every time

it's not about my personal preference for how a video game "should" be. Triternion marketed and (i'm assuming) will continue to market Mordhau as a competitively focused game: comp.png. As a result they're going to need to draw what makes successful esport's titles successful, and ideally achieve something similair to the success of Rocket League which balances casual/comp players, retaining high skill ceiling and low skill floor. Mount and blade fundamentals don't allow that, there is very, very little Mordhau can take from M&B to achieve the game it wants to be

Getting rid of the factors of a 8 year old difference between the two;

Mount and blade appeal is large scale battles, massive sieges and singleplayer RPG gameplay. The multiplayer aspect of M&B isn't really the success of the game. You can check it yourself: ~6k concurrent players yet there is rarely more than 500 players to be seen on the browser.

Mordhau's appeal is an "epic" multiplayer experience founded upon skillbased combat with heavy depth in the mechanics. The only thing that Mordhau has tried from M&B is kick stun and im not sure if we'll be seeing that all the way until release

Knight 203 605
  • 1
  • 12 Jul
 GIRUGIRU

chamber meta going out the window. You should never be "punished" for attacking a player (see For Honor), it creates for a shitty meta. 90% of animation complaints is a direct result from people spazzing their attacks as much as possible to prevent chambers - they've become far too core within the gameplay and have had drastic side effects

the game needs crisp attacks, clear cut accels, drags as a mixup, not as a 50/50 between accel and drag - hitting a player's defence should be a reward in of itself, you should never be forced to try to bullshit every attack you throw out in order to prevent the likelihood of a chamber attempt

As shovonem stated, best meta is an offensive meta. players need to be fighting tooth and claw for initaitive, being rewarded for pressuring eachother and not just doing some spasmoid ftp-chamber wild swing manipulation, stam drain gameplay with the occassional feint thrown in

agree with wizard's post in its entirety

Knight 203 605
  • 12 Jul
 GIRUGIRU

it's a complex line to draw between what constitutes a "mistake" and what constitutes an "outplay" in top level gaming

mount and blade just dosen't have the mechanics that allow for "outplaying" and the top level. You can tell this because the duels are played naked and can last infinitely. Take M&B's core combat design and relate it to any successful esport right now - it just dosen't have the capacity to be the foundations of a real competitive game

Knight 203 605
  • 12 Jul
 GIRUGIRU

lmao mount and blade looks like SHIT, endurance test simulator really exciting. Do love long drawn out fights with no room for plays, just for people to fuck up

Knight 203 605
  • 17 Jun
 GIRUGIRU

extremely impressive player for someone with virtually no previous melee slasher experience

Knight 203 605
  • 8 Jun
 GIRUGIRU

No CFTP is awful, all it constitutes is people missing and then running away (which looks dumb), chambers become cancer because it's way riskier to commit to big drags so as a result chambering becomes way easier. 1vX goes down the shitter because comboing just becomes a reckless idea when you're fighting multiple enemies, and you also massively drop the skill ceiling because being able to punish misses is a skill in itself. XvX meta would forever just involve people wanting to take long weapons and poke from distance

No CFTP was tried in chiv and it completely killed the game, it's a shit idea and it will never work. The freedom of attack cancelling is the glue to the game and shouldn't be flat out removed, ever.

Forcing someone to CFTP in a 1v1 scenario can win you most duels because of how expensive it is. Assuming all stamina costs are 7:
7(miss) + 7(combo) + 7(feint), + 7(parry) = 28. That's ALOT of stamina to be throwing away

Ontop of that you can drag, feint, "waterfall, morph, morph drag and kick someone who lost initiative from missing. If you feel that you make enemies miss alot but can't get the punish, use faster weps because you can definitely punish misses in this game if you know what you're doing. If you're worried about people gambling, you can just safely rape their stamina with a simple accelerated attack, not a big deal

Knight 203 605
 GIRUGIRU

I can see 240 being superior for duelists because the angles can be deceptive sometimes, input delay isn't really an issue in 1v1s

I said from the start 240 will always be inferior unless it has it's own merits (such as deceptive angles) but the input delay is not enough to justify that, as well as the extra mouse movement you have to "waste" which should be used for swing manipulation

I personally think the default layout should just be Chiv controls + 160(slashes and undercuts). 240 always felt like shit to me and i'd hate to use it, just makes the game clunky and ontop of that, 240 players look way too spasticated with janky camera movements flying their mouse all around the show trying to input the correct attacks. Can instantly identify a 240 spaz compared to some disciplined bind-titan

Knight 203 605
  • 20 May
 GIRUGIRU

weapon length just passively gives you a more difficult weapon to read just due to how close you can put it inside of people

if you're unable to utilize weapon reach in 1v1s then that's simply a l2p issue and not something up to game, i would suggest looking at some footage from some very good players and see how they use footwork in 1v1s combined with a long weapon. Longer weapon also gives you initation power vs shorter ones

Knight 203 605
  • 20 May
 GIRUGIRU

@Izıl said:
I gotta agree with the weapon length / speed. Speed has way more pros than reach, and idk if thats good. It just makes high cost weapons worse than the lowcost faster weps and thats how the game is atm

Until you stop playing zwei like chiv Messer I don't think you can say that

Zwei is far more viable than bastard sword in XvX and that's because of reach

Knight 203 605
  • 19 May
 GIRUGIRU

@Frise said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
As for facehug, if you don't like people in your face you shouldn't be playing a melee game. It's an inherent part of melee slasher - you have to learn to deal with it and not have crutch mechanics that auto punish it.

Right, so, like, it would be bad to have a mechanic that dealt with it for you automatically, without you having to do anything. So, like, the huge ass bubble.

Reducing bubble wouldn't mean more facehugging as long as a proper punish for it were implemented, therefore all of the negative connotations you mentioned wouldn't matter.

Agreed, it's a matter of fine tuning and it's very delicate. However, by autocrutch i mean that kick automatically punishes someone who gets into your face

Kick should be used to punish people who are literally sniffing your cock for seconds at a time fishing for panic parries and delaying initiative with fast weapons, not to just autopunish anyone who touches you

Knight 203 605
  • 19 May
 GIRUGIRU

@yourcrippledson said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
As for facehug, if you don't like people in your face you shouldn't be playing a melee game. It's an inherent part of melee slasher - you have to learn to deal with it and not have crutch mechanics that auto punish it

It isn't a FUN aspect of gameplay for ANYONE to deal with. It is a symptom of flawed mechanics. Saying this is inherent to a genre with like 4 games in it is literally just giving up on the problem.

That's a complete sweeping statement with no factual basis, i personally enjoy getting into people's faces and having duels up close and personal is what makes the game extremely enjoyable for me. I know alot of players that would agree with my thoughts on this aswell

There is no "problem", if you don't like people in your face then take spear and hide behind your teammates

Knight 203 605
  • 1
  • 19 May
 GIRUGIRU

Player Collision Bubble has always been a matter of fine tuning

Small bubble:

  • "Insider" gameplay, attacks can be kept completely inside of you, especially with longer weapons. Contrary to common understanding, small bubble can give long weps a massive advantage due to this
  • Instahits
  • Facehug feints/morphs buffed
  • Facehug fake accels buffed
  • Short weapons users benefit from being able to get closer
  • XvX less clunky as you get blocked by other players less
  • Keeping a feint-read distance is less possible
  • Circling people as a defensive/offensive strat becomes more powerful (turncapping attacks, etc)

Big bubble

  • Weapons don't go inside of you unless they are in a release state
  • Reading is easier and much more consistent
  • XvX can become clunky as you get blocked by players
  • Short weapons suffer, longer weapons become more of a requirement
  • Deliberately cornering people becomes more powerful
  • Instahits dont occur much much less
  • People running around your collision model is less effective

This list isn't comprehensive but you get the idea. It's a matter of fine tuning as no solution will ever be perfect, and iirc there will be a size adjustment to current bubble

Current bubble isn't an issue for me when it comes to using short weps, however I find feints are too weak right now

As for facehug, if you don't like people in your face you shouldn't be playing a melee game. It's an inherent part of melee slasher - you have to learn to deal with it and not have crutch mechanics that auto punish it

Knight 203 605
  • 16 May
 GIRUGIRU

Roleplay

Knight 203 605
  • 14 May
 GIRUGIRU

@Nikosawa said:
daniel what is this music my son.

Red sex by vessel

Knight 203 605
Knight 203 605
  • 1
  • 11 May
 GIRUGIRU

A player's animation that succesfull DCFs will involve him windup up, and then chambering, then immediately resetting to idle and immediately starting an animation. 0 lockout would make a terrible, inhuman back and forth jerk, and i think 150ms lockout (current riposte window iirc) will also be too small of a time to not look broken

I'd like to express that your ideas are absolutely sound in order for increasing the skill cap of the game. However, Mordhau development isn't just about raising the game's skill cap - they come with many side-effects and to begin with the game shouldn't be taking the path of technics-heavy fighter as it's going to make the game less appealing to the masses.

Skill cap can always be patched and worked on within the future, there are hundreds, if not thousands, of different avenues the developers can take for this. Right now it should be the concern of the developers (and the rest of the community) to ensuring the game is a success - not only financially but also in terms of having a thriving, active and growing playerbase

That being said, there are items in the works to increase the skill cap still within the game, and to buff 1vX (and chambers in 1vX for that regard), so i'm not saying the devs should give up on combat balance and polish entirely. But when these changes are done it's extremely important that the lower level spectrum of the game is not affected adversely as a result

Knight 203 605
  • 11 May
 GIRUGIRU

I would much rather discuss this on voice than me typing on my phone, forum discussion vs voice is like a 100kbps vs 100mbps bandwidth

Knight 203 605
  • 11 May
 GIRUGIRU

If someone hits into an attack when he (attacker) has initiative and the enemy dosent FTP, it's going to be confusing why his attack just got parried. For comp players, not at all, 99% of the rest of the player base, yes.

DCF will need a lockout at least the same window as a riposte, otherwise you will be morphing from a janky animation at the speed of a riposte which will be extremely powerful. Initial offense needs buffing, not chamber offensive capability.

Complex inputs are not a good solution for the game no matter what. The game is not intended to be a technical fighting game, it's a melee slasher and it just raises the skill floor for new players, so I am against that. If Mordhau is to succeed as a niche genre the mechanics need to remain absolutely as simple as possible while retaining the highest possible skill ceiling, like quake or CS:GO. The game will not have the luxury of players investing time into it initially like MOBAs or fighting games

I would rather have 1vX weak like it currently is than have vets stomp pubs with confusing mechanics and creating a high barrier to entry on the game

Knight 203 605
  • 10 May
 GIRUGIRU

defensive chamber feint is cool as an idea aslong as the timing is extremely strict (so it's only used at high level). However, i disagree with low feint recovery on a small chamber feint as it would allow for absolutely brutal mixups, essentially allowing you to switch your successful chamber into any direction accel/drag, a feint, a morph accel/drag or a morph feint

while i agree there should be buffs to offense in mordhau, buffing chambers as an offensive tool is not a good option. Chambers are already currently the best way to bypass parry, buffing chambers even more means that chamber-centric playstyles become incredibly strong and defensive "pussy" playstyles also benefit as a result, allowing for a For Honor style meta rather than a brutal offensive meta

As for active parry, the conclusion was made to get rid of active parry as it's an "ugly" solution to buff 1vX, it allows attackers to spam into an active parry and immediately parry the subsequent attack themselves (which makes 1vX a case of dealing with X amount of spammers and a whole lot of feint-to-parrying, at high level). Ontop of that, active parry is not freindly for newer players. 95% of players that touch Mordhau will never even understand the basics of the realtime swing system (windup-release-recovery) let alone understand active parry, this is a problem and this is a big factor in the reasoning why it was removed.

I disagree with the return of active parry in any form, it was tried and tested, and removed for a reason. I would have implemented active parry in compmod if it were possible, but it's just not an ideal mechanic for Mordhau. There are other buffs to 1vX regarding chambers in the works, i would wait to see how that turns out.