Mordhau
 Q
Knight
  • Likes received 231
  • Date joined 16 Feb '17
  • Last seen 17 Apr

Private Message

Knight 162 231
  • 26 Feb
 Q

In this thread I will attempt to lay out an argument on why I think having a full range of combos available is fundamental to any serious/competitive/next gen melee genre/game. In order to increase the skill ceiling, & fluidity of combat/gameplay. Especially with regard to team fights & 1vX.

In Chivalry, combos are limited to either the same-side, or opposite-side—depending on the weapon (most are same-side only). This means that if you perform a (right) overhead attack, you can not combo/follow it up with a (left) alt-slash. & vice-versa. You are stuck to either one side, or the other. Mordhau only has opposite-side combos. Meaning that you can only string together (combo) attacks from the opposite side.

Why is this a problem?

1vX & team fights are where the high skill ceiling is. As 1vX is obviously harder than 1v1.
In team fights & 1vX scenarios, it is imperative to be able to perform the appropriate next attack for the unfolding situation around you. If you overhead someone (as that was the most obvious shot selection) & there is a second enemy to your left side—you can not combo it. You have to wait for the first attack to wind down, then wind up a (left) alt-slash. By that time… that specific shot selection might not even be the best one.

Plus it is unintuitive to cue up an attack to combo, for it to only perform a completely different one.

I think only having opposite-side combos is worse than only having same-side combos. As opposite-side combos tend to be more telegraphed & predictable—like figures of eights. Same-side combos also have exceptions to the rule, as can still usually opposite-side combo the same attack (such as (right) slash into (left) alt-slash, or (right) overhead into (left) alt-overhead).

I think this is one of the biggest reasons why team fights in Mordhau are it’s weak point. You are restricted to only opposite-side combos, that are quite weak/predictable. It slows down the pacing of the gameplay/combat, & makes it feel rather clunky. I think it is fair to say that the combos in Mordhau aren’t that great. & that you can pull off some sick combos in Chiv, in comparison.

Meta. Without decent combos, the meta shifts to being more just feint/drag orientated. Which is not that fun to play against. Opposed to using spatial awareness & footwork to out maneuver your opponents. Which is fun to play against, nor feels cheap. As it’s organic/natural. Which is really where the genre really shines (& why people play), not for the technical. (That would be Street Fighter.)

Why is drag (animation manipulation) meta not healthy for the genre. If the meta just revolves around how can I make my swing animation look as aids/cancer as possible. Then who would want to play that game? I needn’t comment on feint meta.

I don’t have a problem with drags, nor feints—quite the opposite. I just don’t think they should be sole meta in game/genre. As it’s not fun to play against.

With animation improvements, readability/defence will naturally become easier. Which is obviously a positive thing. But then how to balance attack/defence without artificial ban-aids/buff. Food for thought.

I think better combos help naturally buff attack, & also serve to keep feint/drag meta in its place. As you have more natural options for attack—so don’t have to rely as much on feints/drags to get kills.

I can’t really think of any negatives to having both same-side & opposite-side combos available. Only positives. I would even go so far as to say, to properly balance the game they are needed. It would only increase the skill ceiling, & make the gameplay/combat feel more fluid. As they are like the glue that bind the rest together. I think combos are the most unappreciated mechanic. If anyone can think of any negatives, please state them below.

Knight 162 231
  • 4 Jun '19
 Q

I have never really liked this mechanic. Combos are already weak enough. Yes, I suppose it deters players from mindlessly swinging. However it can also punish legitimate play. Plus most of the players that mindlessly swing (i.e. low rank players), would not even be aware of the mechanic anyway.

Knight 162 231
  • 1
  • 25 May '19
 Q

SteelSeries Rival 500

SteelSeries Rival 500.png

Knight 162 231
  • 1
  • 19 May '19
 Q

Okay so my main two criticisms of the game at the moment are: maps, & team-fights.

On Maps:

I think Frontline is a neat game mode to have, however as someone who primarily played TO in Chiv, it doesn't really scratch the itch. Maybe if there were more meaningful objectives. At present it just feels like a glorified TDM. However I don't see why both modes can't exist. Maybe modders will make some maps. Someone also suggested a map editor, which I think is an awesome idea. Obviously that would take time to implement though, but would be totally worth it.

On Combat:

Gameplay/combat is still slow paced, especially team-fights. I put this down to combos, or lack there of. Limiting the player to only opposite-side combos just results in these overly telegraphed figures of eight patterns, that are so predictable & just dull to use & play against. It makes the game feel clunky, & limits the skill-ceiling. Never did I find this more apparent than when playing on a packed 64p FL server, surrounded by team/enemy.

Knight 162 231
  • 19 May '19
 Q

I really like the way you respawn on Frontline mode. When you can see the entire battlefield in the isometric view. Then you fly/zoom down to the ground. Really nice touch.

Knight 162 231
  • 1
  • 19 May '19
 Q

Yes, the middle two citations only affect double parries. I mentioned that in my OP, when I said 'I think the parry box gets bigger during multiple incoming hits, or something'. However the parry rework (first citation) changed the way parries were detected in general.

  • Parry detection reworked - now uses a box instead of angles. Parry now has more forward range, making it easier to force parries. Parry now covers legs unless character looks up, making it easier to parry foot drags. Hitting around and above this parry box should be a lot more consistent than before. Chambers also use this new detection. ( https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/10158/changelog-thread/?page=3#c55 )
Knight 162 231
  • 2
  • 15 May '19
 Q

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Q said:
Nah I agree, parry has become easier than Chiv, especially in team-fights & 1vX (I think the parry box gets bigger during multiple incoming hits, or something). It wasn't always the case though.

citation fucking needed, and even if that's true it still isn't possibly bigger than Chiv's on top of being a shorter duration

I don't know all of the exact numbers for both games, but here is the changelog (#17) thread for the parry rework: https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/10158/changelog-thread/?page=3#c55 . Also check out some of the other changelogs for parry in that time period.

I also mentioned the issue in this thread (back in May 2018, before the rework): https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/13068/current-state-of-combat/

Knight 162 231
  • 15 May '19
 Q

Nah I agree, parry has become easier than Chiv, especially in team-fights & 1vX (I think the parry box gets bigger during multiple incoming hits, or something). It wasn't always the case though. Parry used to be easier in Chiv. However in Mordhau, parry was recently reworked, & considerably improved. Before that it was quite stingy on parry box size, but too generous with parry duration.

Knight 162 231
  • 2
  • 14 May '19
 Q

I wonder if this has anything to do with over sensitive security software. You could try temporarily disabling your anti-virus (if have any).

Also check Windows Firewall settings, & make sure that Mordhau is allowed through.

Knight 162 231
  • 13 May '19
 Q

@Dekkers said:
The real reason we need a map editor (apart from me being eager to make maps) is that a good variety in maps can make the difference between a player quitting a game after 5-6 months of after 2-3 years (a bit over exaggerated perhaps but you get the point).

Having only 6 maps, or a few more if they add some, will become boring fairly quickly. Heck, I am already bored of Taiga which leaves 3 maps remaining when I play Frontline.

Honestly, in my humble opinion making map tools should be a top priority for the developer team. I mean, if they succeed they can literally let the community take care of the whole map issue.

That aside, people will also be able to turn 'Frontline' more into 'Siege' so you practically add a gamemode without adding a new gamemode. This is something I know many people would like to see, given that sieges truly belong in a medieval era game, in my opinion anyway.

I second that.

Knight 162 231
  • 13 May '19
 Q

Yeah that would be dope. Or even just some similar ones.

Like this new Chiv TO map called Whitenest: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343871088 . Which kinda reminds me of Age of Chivalry.

Knight 162 231
  • 13 May '19
 Q

@Mackintoke said:

@Q said:

Combos are also still way better in Chiv.

Go ahead and elaborate on that one. So far, the only thing Chiv has that Mordhau doesn't have is the front and center overhead swing with hammer. Now the over head swings are slightly angled to left or right.

In a nutshell; Mordhau only has opposite-side combos, whereas Chiv (as a general rule) only has same-side combos. In Chivalry, the exceptions being same attack combos (i.e. Overhead > Alt-Overhead, or Slash > Alt-Slash). Stab is also partly exempt from this rule (as there is no Alt-Stab), allowing for both same & opposite-side combos.

You could put off some ace combos in Chiv. Mordhau's combos are meh at best.

Combos are like the glue that bind the rest of the combat together, & make the combat feel fluid. Having only opposite-side combos slows down the combat/gameplay, & only serves to lower the skill-ceiling. Especially with regard to team fights, & 1vX (which is where the skill-ceiling lies with this genre). As they are quite predictable, & not very creative (just figures of eights).

I personally think the worst offender is not being able to perform a right slash after a right slab or right overhead (or a left slash after a left stab or left overhead). Not to mention counter intuitive cuing up a left slash, for it to only perform a right slash (or vice versa). This issue exists in both games. However in Chiv it was the other way around, but with same-side combos.

A while back I compiled a list of all available combos in both games. Please note that it is for binds, not 240 system.

Combos [Final].png

Knight 162 231
  • 12 May '19
 Q

The other day I seen what looked like an awesome new TO map for Chiv called Whitenest ( https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1343871088 ). Reminded me of Age of Chivalry. These are the kind of maps I would like to see more of.

Combos are also still way better in Chiv.

Knight 162 231
  • 12 May '19
 Q

MetallicCatheter, wifi was never really designed for playing video-games. It tends to have higher latency, & is intrinsically less stable & secure. Cable is also really cheap. I bet a hard wired connection would significantly improve your ping, maybe even half it. It would also make packet loss near non existent.

Like I said above, 100 ping is high for this genre. It renders the game damn near unplayable. Ask any experienced players.

It is also worth noting that for every additional player on a server, the overall ping will increase for everybody. This is true for any game/server. FrontLine mode has 64 player servers. This may be one of the reasons why you are seeing higher ping than in other games.

Knight 162 231
Knight 162 231
  • 9 May '19
 Q

DWTerminator (my favourite game reviewer) gave it a 4.5/5.

Knight 162 231
  • 1
  • 9 May '19
 Q

This genre requires low latency. As it is reaction/timing based. Melee combat is also very close quarters. Below 50ms ping is preferable. Over 100ms significantly affects the gameplay, & starts to render the game unplayable.

Knight 162 231