Mordhau
 Naleaus
  • Likes received 875
  • Date joined 25 Oct '15
  • Last seen 1 Dec

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301 875
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  • 14 Sep '18
 Naleaus

That's not what the point of my post was. It was to counter the emergent gameplay bullshit. All I said through a bit of hyperbole is that the games are the same concept, but that Mordhau has more options, and not less like OP claims. But I had 4 hours of sleep and I'm feeling froggy, so let's look at drags then, shall we?

The best ones in Mordhau have always been the ones that look the worst. Your waterfalls, frenchfriesdrag, cucumber drag. Even your run of the mill jump drag looks pretty bad currently to your casual spectator.

So you say, let's make angle matter more so that big drags aren't necessary. This allows you to do easier drags, but still buffs the worst ones, and if you overdo the angles it feels like shit in 1vX. (I'm fine with slight nerf of parrying angle by the way, but I mean slight.) So you get your easy to land drags, but make other things feel worse.

So why did Chiv work? Cause they didn't care if things LOOKED good, and player retention suffered. Parry was pretty fucking easy in Chiv, but through a combination of looking terrible, weapon timings, being able to drag windups through people, reverses, etc, kept drags viable.

So what can Mordhau do? They're already doing it. They may have overnerfed them at the moment, but that's fine and the way you want to go about it. If they feel they're too weak they can slowly go about strengthening them. And in the end, they need to balance around team games instead of duels, and besides stab issues at the moment, team stuff feels pretty good.

The other option would be a complete rework of all game mechanics. This isn't going to happen.
But that's not the issue. The OP doesn't want good looking drags. He wants CHIV drags that give him full control to stop time. That's why this discussion is stupid, because he wants Chiv 2 with pretty graphics, not Mordhau. And fuck that.

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  • 14 Sep '18
 Naleaus

Ah fuck off with that emergent gameplay shit. You have more options in Mordhau, you just don't like them.

In Chivalry, you can feint and drag, or any combination of the two, with stabs, overheads and slashes. Luckily both drags and feints looked fucking horrible, otherwise no one would ever die, right?

In Mordhau you have feints, drags (yes, they're still useful, just different) and morphs. You also, for better or worse have undercuts as well as the other three attacks. You can even use 240 if you really wanted for even more control over making your attack look like absolute shit.

Cause in the end that's really all either game comes down to. Scare your opponent into parrying by making your attack look hideous. You like pressing a button then moving your mouse. Some people like pressing multiple buttons. Some combine the two for some real emergent gameplay.

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  • 13 Sep '18
 Naleaus

@Julma said:
Hi, i just got a key from a friend, when i try to activate it in steam, it says "Invalid Steam Code" how can i get to the game?

Confirm the key with your friend, nothing anyone here can do about an invalid steam key.

301 875
  • 9 Sep '18
 Naleaus

@Frise said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
Feints are much healthier than swing manipulation as the main offensive tool in terms of visuals

You are delusional. Any new player can instantly understand the concept of getting sidestabbed or shoulder dragged.

Not getting into the rest of the debate cause I'm at work, but nahh to this. I've sat through the whole alpha having to explain where and why people got hit by my waterfalls, and most of them were not new players. Unless you're playing in 3rd or turn your FoV up past the normal limit, then you can't tell for shit where something hits.

301 875
  • 8 Sep '18
 Naleaus

I never fall for any feint cause I just stab with waraxe.

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  • 8 Sep '18
 Naleaus

@yourcrippledson said:
Make shield block match shield size.
Make parry relative to weapon size.

Terrible ideas. Hope you like never blocking anything ever.

Remove restrictive turn caps for them too.

When balancing, it's best to overnerf then adjust up. Only problem is it doesn't take long to figure it out testing with a bunch of people, but patches take too long.

Make parry require some skill and precision.

Already went over this, it leads to shit feeling inconsistent as hell. And you want to BUFF drags on top of this? You would never parry a single attack of mine.

Add higher fov options. Seriously let me see my arms lol..

Actually tested this last patch, not really necessary until current parry box is changed.

Add a real active parry.
One that behaves like an attack swing, but this is a defensive swing. It can be feinted out of and is also subject to swing manipulation. It is its own parry animation, like a real HEMA parry, and it behaves like a clash where you have to hit the enemy weapon in mid swing. It would not replace our normal "parry" (which is more like a block), but just be a more aggressive higher risk/reward defensive option, which right now we do not have. It's more like a real life parry. With a relatively quick swinging animation.
I think striking at your enemies strikes could be fun. Wow imagine that, defense being fun.

Didn't you just describe how chambers currently work? What the fuck are you going on about?

The rest of your shit is dumb enough to ignore. Do you still still just fight bots or something? I don't even fucking know why I bother replying to this crap.

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  • 28 Aug '18
 Naleaus

@Koda said:
Makes sense thanks for the thoughtful reply on why I was wrong rather than the toxicity I was kind of expecting.

lmao git gud scrub

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  • 28 Aug '18
 Naleaus

So at first I was going to just say git gud or outskilled or whatever, but I looked that at the gifs closer and slowed them down, and really I got a bit lucky on both for the most part. Range was actually the biggest factor instead of speed.

For the first, if you look at the first slowed down and zoomed in a bit, you'll see you actually missed slightly. So I was able to hit first before you could correct your aim a few millimeters to the right.

stab2.png

On the second, again I just got lucky, this time with the slightly longer range. Timing wise you'd have won, but we started our attacks far enough away that my release was able to hit your head before your sword was in range.

stab.png

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  • 24 Aug '18
 Naleaus

They post on discord, the forums aren't the best place to get info. Additionally, the game has had a while between patches, so besides speculation or discussion of various bits of info the devs give out there isn't a lot to discuss.

The game is still in alpha, a patch should be dropping in the next day or two unless Elwebarro screws up again. The forums will liven up a bit then, but the discord is still the most active tool for communication.

Lastly, advertising isn't happening yet because the game is not obtainable at the moment. Once it gets closer to release or another way of buying into testing is available, hype will begin building. Currently, just the sweaty try hards are playing a lot, and it's not much fun for casuals until bigger game modes is out.

301 875
  • 22 Aug '18
 Naleaus

Yes, just continue to allow me to have all the power. Excellent.

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  • 18 Jul '18
 Naleaus

I don't care much about the lack of Dev blogs, or scattered communication and all that. I do like killing Jax in game with hideous shit then seeing his reaction on stream. I mean, I kill everyone with hideous looking shit, but I don't get to see the reaction. So leave the poor man alone.

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  • 9 Jul '18
 Naleaus

It's the bug where weapons (or a shield in this case) are really huge when you spawn in.

So unfortunately, much like everyone else, aliens don't care about you either.

301 875
  • 1 Jul '18
 Naleaus

@Cswic said:
After 30 min or so of purposefully trying to windup stabs inside people I couldn't get any clips I felt were particularly problematic. Unless someone else wants to provide some clips or keep the discussion going I'd say the thread is dead. Thanks for info about early release as well.

Do you think the problem you thought existed would be that people are waiting to chamber instead of just forcing the parry?

301 875
  • 7 Jun '18
 Naleaus

@yourcrippledson said:

I'm not going to reply to you anymore. If you don't see how to punish a CFTP, that's a skill issue or you're being obstinate. Either way, it's not worth writing walls of text cause it's not going to change anyway.

301 875
  • 7 Jun '18
 Naleaus

@Koda said:

  1. Weapon length would matter less if misses were more punishing? I don't understand. To me it's the opposite. If someone is running a bastard sword they will have a harder time getting a hit than someone with a long weapon.

You with a zwei, me with a bastard sword. I'll stand at your max range, because I know I can just turn and run away to force a miss. If I don't hear that, grunt, I can keep running. Assuming we're the same armor tier (which will end up being light probably cause running to force misses is better than heavy being a liability for one extra hit), you can't hit me. If you attack and miss, I can turn around and stab you before your recovery is over. So you'll say to decrease recovery, add chase mechanic, etc. And before you know it, we're spending another 6 months in alpha to test stuff. If you want to see how lack of CFTP makes a game look, play some Deadliest Warrior.

  1. Target switching would only become stupid to do if you are unable to hit the person you are switching to. I really think this increases the skill gap because people who suck at target switch would get punished severely. I think that this is a good thing, not a bad thing. I also think that people who intentionally miss you in order to bait out a parry should be able to be punished. Right now in a 1vX if the enemy is doing this to you, you have no options. If you try to punish them, they can just CFTP and then back away for a moment while their teammates spam attacks against you and they recover that missed stam. They just did something that's no risk to them and is very difficult for you to counter, you countered it and gained nothing. I hate that!

On the same token, if you can't CFTP, how are you supposed to be aggressive in 1v2? If you hit one person and combo, then you're going to get hit. If you don't combo, the other person will just feint you because you have given up initiative and are back to neutral instead of an attack state. If you try to target switch as the 1vX, how will you be able to defend against the follow up attack that comes? Again, you're reducing recovery times. Combos are useless at this point.

  1. About people running away from your attack, I think the recent changes to acceleration would help with this. It's very hard right now to just run away from a swing. If running away from a swing is still viable, that needs to be fixed either way IMO.

Recent changes only work if you parry first, if you are just running till they miss then you won't be slowed down. I'll go 0/0/0 at some point and show you how fun that playstyle is to play against.

  1. Yes face hugging would be an issue but then you can just kick them. The trick is to keep a moderate range, and to press your range while you're attacking so that they can't back out from it.

Kick is currently unfun and a gamble. It doesn't really counter facehug at all.

  1. About this slowing down combat, I don't think that's a bad thing. Right now it's just thoughtless aggression. I think this would heighten the skill ceiling and add a new playstyle, a playstyle about counter attacks rather than just thoughtlessly spamming attacks. I don't think combat would slow down so much that neither person is even attacking. I mean why would this stop you from performing any attacks? You just have to be confident that you will hit your enemy, which really isn't difficult to do.

It really would slow down a lot. The game would be about single strikes only and team fights would be clunky. Once someone finally gets a 1v2, it'd be over though. This would be against what the devs have currently been pushing towards. Really, I'm not sure why I'm replying cause at this stage I don't believe they'd test this or make all the changes required to attempt to make this work.

  1. I think it's more unintuitive than regular FTP because you're parrying during your previous weapons animation. It just looks silly and doesn't make any sense. This is especially obvious if you do stab >> swing CFTP. You end up parrying at the very end of your stab when you would intuitively be at your most vulnerable.

New crosshair will help that for the person doing it, if it indicates weapon state (windup, release, recovery, combo, flinch). As I said, animation changes could help, or a slight lockout. The lockout would probably feel bad, but who knows. The idea behind CFTP is intuitive though.

I think to sum everything up, you don't think people should be punished for missing because it's easy to bait a miss. I disagree that it's easy to bait a good player into a miss. Some players run around naked and sprint away from attacks and I can definitely see that being an issue but I hope that playstyle gets fixed either way. I'd be happy to do some duels with you using the EX sword and see how it feels. I think you should try it out too. Yes it makes it harder but I don't think that means it's less fun. Also I'm not saying just pull CFTP from the game and expect to be finished. There would have to be some balance changes of course, like with any major change. Yes if we just removed CFTP and did nothing else to make things work out, it would be bad for the game. I think the devs are smart enough to do this right.

You misinterpreted. You can punish misses currently in a multitude of ways as I already mentioned above. However, you can use misses offensively to maintain initiative currently, which can be punished by the same ways as a normal miss if you can read the miss. The inability to defend after a miss though will just lead to fast weapon meta. I've used exec a lot in duels and team fights. It feels bad, especially against fast weapons. I think at this point major changes like this won't work, because they can't push out a bunch of small updates to test things. Updates will be few and farther between because of what's left to work on (maps/modes/etc.) Maybe Crushed will chime in, he used to hate CFTP in Chiv then changed his mind.

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  • 7 Jun '18
 Naleaus

@yourcrippledson said:

@Naleaus said:

@Huggles said:
Your concerns are definitely valid if we were to just take how miss recovery works now and ship it without cftp. With timing adjustments tho I think most of your concerns would be addressed.

Yes, you can feint or morph to "punish" but being forced to take a risk in order to punish someone else's mistake doesn't really seem like a punish. It just reduces your stamina to basically the same you reduced his if he reads/gambles correctly.

Why is there no issue with stamming out not being a guaranteed hit, but missing an attack should be?

Stamming out shouldn't be a "guaranteed hit" imo, but it should leave you on the ropes with a shred of hope. A guaranteed hit on a stam out would be the equivalent to a guaranteed kill.

I don't want a "guaranteed hit" on a missed swing. I just want it to be something that one should ideally wish to avoid doing because they could be hit. Rather than something people constantly do intentionally because there is almost no chance of being hit.

Stamming out is multiple mistakes that lead to you regaining a bunch of stam, the attacker being slowed down to allow you to run away and weapon switch or just quick draw a light weapon. That's not a shred of hope, that puts the person stamming out at a disadvantage unless they do it themselves or are playing against a bad player. Why bother chambering? I can just get a fresh batch of stam and a fast weapon to feint you with that is almost unpunishable.

Now compare that to punishing a CFTP. You have options to hit them, and regardless, if they CFTP and you hit them they take a stam hit. I know a morph or drag will cost significantly less stam than their CFTP, I assume a feint will too but can't be arsed to check. If they do parry you, they can riposte. Which is more punishable?

301 875
  • 7 Jun '18
 Naleaus

@Huggles said:
Your concerns are definitely valid if we were to just take how miss recovery works now and ship it without cftp. With timing adjustments tho I think most of your concerns would be addressed.

Yes, you can feint or morph to "punish" but being forced to take a risk in order to punish someone else's mistake doesn't really seem like a punish. It just reduces your stamina to basically the same you reduced his if he reads/gambles correctly.

Why is there no issue with stamming out not being a guaranteed hit, but missing an attack should be?

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  • 7 Jun '18
 Naleaus

This is going to be a bit rambling cause I went to a concert last night and haven't slept, so here goes.

Weapon length would matter less in a duel without CFTP. Someone with a bastard sword only needs to run away from your attack (cause you're trying to keep them at range) to force a miss then you're punished. It would either make facehugging MORE prevalent as that's the safest way to guarantee you don't miss OR cause people to just ballerina run around to dodge attacks even more than currently. It would also bring about a slash heavy meta, as other attacks will be seen as unnecessary risks.

Other things that'll happen which have been talked about forever. Slowed down combat and more turn taking, which in turns slows down team fights, makes target switches too big a risk and will probably turn team fights into just mini duels until 1vX happens. On topic of 1vX, if you can't safely switch then CFTP into another attack, then a single miss will end the 1vX. Missing has it's purposes, besides just being a mistake. Pressuring an enemy without giving them initiative is important, and without CFTP that's just not possible. This is also why riposte needs to stay on CFTP.

Punishing a CFTP, literally just feint, drag, or morph your punish attempt. Or even just hit them, though stam is hardly a punish at the moment. Most players are still using the one button FTP, so it'll be an easy punish. When more players get better and Q > RMB instead, then it'll get harder, but that's part of the skill ceiling.

Different timing (a short lockout), better animation (though not sure how), etc could make it look better, but I still hate that it's called unintuitive. You can FTP an attack. Ok, got it? Now, your first swing missed, and you combo, but they're attacking you! Guess what you can do, FTP an attack. It's just feint to parry with a combo in between attacks. The unituitive part is recovery, and not being able to parry during it. Unfortunately this is somewhat necessary cause recovery parry was terrible in Chiv, and lead to nothing but stam fights and even less punishing.

Anyway, those are my thoughts, playing without CFTP isn't particularly fun to me, though I know opinions will differ. Use Exec sword for a bit and see how shit it feels against fast weapons, then imagine other slow weapons against a Rapier or Bastard Sword.

301 875
  • 30 May '18
 Naleaus

@yourcrippledson said:
guys, can you grow a pair? If we all bitched as hard as I did, we would have a colourable sword by now.

I don't care about customizing it, and frankly your reaction would have the opposite effect for me at least. If they had promised a colorable blade, then sure, complain all you want. But they didn't, so grow up and stop bitching.

301 875
  • 30 May '18
 Naleaus

@yourcrippledson said:

@EatAtRedLobster said:
I'll momentarily lay down my mask of semi-indifference and confess I wish the color was fully customizable. I feel that from a "public relations" perspective it is just plain common sense to accommodate this fairly innocuous request. Personally I would have made it fully customizable from the start, and would not have even considered offering a "one size fits all" kickstarter reward like the current longsword.

BUT...

I also realize Grator had his own personal reasons for resisting even the minor change we've been given... And I respect him for that. It shows integrity and that he has a genuine passion for his work.

He likely grit his teeth and met us in the middle on this issue, and I for one feel that we should reciprocate his compromise. Instead of lamenting what "little" we have, instead let's move forward and focus more on how we can positively impact the game in ways that matter far more than some minor customization options.

If this limited kickstarter reward has left you feeling empty you can always satisfy your need for variety at your local Red Lobster™

This comment is a work of art. ^

but fuck integrity. They made an amateur mistake and unintentionally misled their kickstarter peeps "hey look guys you can customize your weapons with different colours and shit, btw support us and get this cool sword! oh woow look at this colorful sword!" (-in fine print- this sword's colorful colours cannot be altered)

not mad, they ARE amateurs when it comes to marketing and promotion of their own game. Just make it right bitches. Grit your teeth harder if you have to

I bet almost everyone was surprised when they found you cannot alter the colour of the blade. At least give us a gradient of blues or something I donno.

I looked back at the Kickstarter rewards, it says the grip color is customizable. Didn't mention the blade. Don't see how they misled anyone.