@idiotgod said:

@Naleaus said:

I'd rather just have timing based instead.

Lucky for us Marox doesn't agree.

What, you're saying Marox wants all the silly shit from Chiv? Of course you're not, cause you took a single line out of context and made a useless post.

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
The entire idea of a purely timing based, static parry was a horrible idea. I dare you all to try defending it.

A few things. Spinning is viable against bad players and in duels only. You don't do that shit against players that will punish you, and you definitely don't do it in team fights. Currently, starting attacks inside of opponents with slashes is really strong, which looks a bit like spinning but is really just stupid accels.

As for defending a time based parry, fighting shields is fucking boring. Fighting shields when they were worse than parries was boring because I was still forced to do obscene drags to get around them somewhat consistently. It was one dimensional and slows shit down to a crawl.

If instead you were wanting a system like mount and blade where you have angle your block to match the attack angle, that leads to even more spastic fights. I watch their duels and start worrying that the players are having seizure symptoms.

If you just mean that you want to be able to get around parries easier without resorting to timing, sure, but it has to be done in moderation. They want to avoid obscene drags or ruining team fights. Marox already suggested they'll look into more. But I don't want to do the silly shit from Chiv. I don't want to drag a stab windup through someone to stab their other side, hit toes cause a guy can't see where the attack actually is in relation to their character cause of 1st, etc. I'd rather just have timing based instead.

@vanguard

I wrote up some big reply and forgot to post it. But the gist was that I do not really have those issues, whether it's cause of a different setup (angle before or after, mouse, playstyle, etc) or something else. Obviously I have incorrect inputs occasionally, but it's rare enough that I don't get pissed off. And I do wacky footwork and matrix shit nonstop (less wacky in team games though).

This isn't to refute what you've said, but just to give a different viewpoint that not everyone has the same issue with it. I know Stauxie uses full 240 and does well, so that may be another person to look at in regards to differences in experiences with it.

@vanguard said:
240 system still is a absolute pain in the ass to make work properly in the heat of the combat. I give up on it tbh, it simply isn't worth it, I won't expend a thousand hours just to master fucking attack imput, this is inconceivable. I honestly recomend you guys give binds as the default option for everyone, and leave the 240 system as a cool gimick for noobs or masochists idk, because when you play against someone that knows what to do, this system puts you in such disadvantage it isn't even funny.

While it's not as good as straight binds, I don't have nearly as much issue as you seem to with 240. Granted I only use it for slashes and underhands, and mostly just for chambering, but I truly really don't have complaints about it in general use.

130 FoV is fine, but the camera placement feels like shit and limits what you can see. I played at 150FoV for a while before they patched it, but still would prefer they move the camera back a bit to allow you to see more of your arms.

@Duguesclin said:
Funny but that change nothing. Gameplay arrangements for the sake of the support can't justify a change of world. Your whole lore is justified by the fact there will be females. That's a tautology.

It would be a tautology if I said "Women exist in the game because they exist in the game." What I did was give reasons that they are capable of fighting equally to males in Mordhau using what is already in the game, along with reasoning for a bunch of other weird shit that currently exists in the game. And I can justify this taking place in a different world because they never said it took place on Earth and it doesn't particularly seem like it. Some real uncanny valley shit going on in the game.

But regardless, I'm not trying to have a serious argument with you. I don't give a fuck about your immersion, and I don't care about your reasoning. It's a game, not particularly realistic, and you can just not play if it bothers you that much.

Just settle this stupid fucking useless argument with some lore.

Mordhau takes place in a world similar in most respects to ours, but different in a few key ways. Unlike Earth, planet Xoram has weaker gravity, as evidenced by how you float a bit while jumping, or your momentum when swinging a large weapon throws your forward.

This also leads the human-like Geaches to have differing physiology. Muscle mass between the genders are overall more similar, with less variance outside of appearance between individuals. This is evidenced by consistent hit to kills, weak archer damage, and people taking a few big hits to die.

Unfortunately, Geaches never mastered smithing (though they were skilled at building with rocks) so their armor is weaker than our equivalents, which is why plate armor is pierced by arrows.

Also, there are no children, new Geach bodies are summoned to hold the souls of ones that died in battle by their God, Hsurc. A fickle and stubborn God, who answers no prayers and watches the fighting for enjoyment, pleased with how everything looks perfect from a distance. He tinkers from afar, but still the Geaches cry for vision and reasoning.

There, now it's all justified and we can move on, ok?

@intTobey said:

I'm not sure if you're arguing about the same thing. The 240 control scheme itself is fine, I don't think anyone cares about retaining that. The problem is that the procedural animations would be better as independent animations for each angle. You could then try to make animations for each particular angle that don't get broken by staring at the ground, jumping, etc. You could give them independent timings to allow more mixups, different turncaps, etc.

The degree of control as far as current 240 implementation really doesn't add much to the game. You can't do many precision drags and chamber angles are already forgiving as hell. What difficulty there is from reading mid angle attacks comes from distorting your body during the attack, which is what you're against, not the mid angle itself.
I actually use 240 for slashes and underhands typically. Not because of any function, but because I'm lazy. Its not very difficult to make animations difficult to read for most players, and it's easy enough to do all the stupid looking shit with 240. Removing binds won't fix that. I would hope that independent animations and timings would do a better job of that.

Again, this is all moot. Nothing is going to change this late in the game.

@Jax said:

There shouldn't exist a control scheme that provides advantages to its user outside of comfort and preference IMO.

general consensus is that binds are superior to 240, however 240 has more fidelity/control. it balances out imo

current animations are left attack and right attack. everything else is procedurally animated.

What Pred said. I don't care if you go in and change shit, it's too late at this juncture. But besides the ability to make angles more difficult to discern, there's really no advantage to the extra "freedom" you get from 240. If super precise drags existed, it might, but they don't due to other balance reasons.

The reasoning to not use procedural animations is because then each angle can have a very distinctive animation, windup/release timings for specific angles can be changed to allow more fine tuning for balance, etc

Again, too late for all of that. Just make current stuff as good as possible and release it, then fix it later if it's an issue.

@Jax said:

@Mittsies said:
While we're on the subject, just remove 240 entirely.
You'll still be able to angle your attacks with the mouse, it'll just be locked to the 6 primary angles.

no

just because you don't want to use it doesn't mean it should be removed

why get rid of the other 234 angles when the animation tech already supports them?

If you want a serious answer, it's because having 6 angles only allows for angle specific animations that can help remove ambiguity while doing things to hide/break your animations. If the extra angles had any purpose other than obfuscation of what you're doing they'd have a purpose, but chamber angles are pretty lax and otherwise they really don't help you hit anyone at all.

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Im not sure if it started this patch but I've noticed a hell of alot more spinning. Spinning to conceal an attack, spinning to first frame hit, spinning to look like a first frame hit then subtly turn into a drag, spinning while starting an attack then morphing when your back is turned so they can't see what's actually coming.

Another spin tactic is crouching when an opponent starts an attack, inputting the chamber and turning then pivoting so the chamber is a first frame hit if the attacker misses, feints, drags too hard or even morphs he'll automatically take the hit. If the opponent doesn't miss then he eats the chamber and has to read an accelerated first frame chamber for morphs, feints or drags. Dragging can beat this to a certain degree but it's risky and often times too late to decide to drag by the time you see them crouching, leaning back and inputting their chamber.

Wish I had film but I'm sure you all know what I am talking about.

Oh hey this sounds like me. I'm just bored while doing this stuff, there are effective parts, but it's really punishable. I've been doing this stuff for awhile now though, nothing new.

To be fair, a lot of the funny Chivalry lines were taken from Shakespeare. Writing funny original lines is a bit harder.

@Frise said:
Like how Crush just deleted my thread where I said he should fix the animations instead of deleting threads, which got quite a lot of likes.

It's in off topic and not deleted?

This is all just a conspiracy to distract from the fact that we haven't had a patch in 57 days. Open your eyes people! Stabs are still broke, shield is over powered, timings are fucked, archery is annoying as hell. First they banned Lazy, now this!!! They're pulling the wool over your eyes. And there's a private channel on the discord! THEY'RE HIDING THINGS FROM US AND USING THIS TO PULL THE WOOL OVER OUR EYES. WAKE UP, THIS IS THE WORK OF THE MGA AND CRUSH.

Sounds like just wording issues.

Ban list = per server and doesn't have anything to do with VAC. It's where the 64 bit steam ID is stored in the server files when an admin types ban "Toxic Moron". The banned person is free to go to any other server and get banned there too.

Game Ban = ban created by the developers that will be in effect on any server with VAC enabled. It's a ban through Steam and works the same as a VAC ban. Anything referred to as "Official Banlist" would refer to this, although it's not really the correct word for it.

Lazy was Game Banned. So any server with VAC enabled should prevent him from playing.

Not sure what good that would do. Any attempts at him acting apologetic have ended up with him repeating the behavior and being kicked again. (Forums, discord, private servers in game, etc. He was on an EU server in the one screenshot, probably because he was banned from all the NA ones already.)

Either way, according to his friend Birch, he doesn't care if he's unbanned during the alpha, but would like to be unbanned upon release. That was a few days ago, his opinions may have changed.

@yourcrippledson said:

@Naleaus said:
You can even use 240 if you really wanted for even more control over making your attack look like absolute shit.

Cause in the end that's really all either game comes down to. Scare your opponent into parrying by making your attack look hideous. You like pressing a button then moving your mouse. Some people like pressing multiple buttons. Some combine the two for some real emergent gameplay.

"In the end it's all about making your attack look like shit" - liked by a dev.

Yippee, you can't understand hyperbole.

Yeah you get angry cause you literally don't even understand what i am saying. You literally don't even know what emergent gameplay is. If you think pushing buttons in a different order is emergent, you're a fucking idiot.

Are you so shit at the game that you press a button and just stare at the screen standing still? You literally have more options to do what you want in Mordhau.

Oh no, they're going to parry my attack! What can I do?
Chiv: Drag, Feint, 3 attacks.
Mordhau: Drag, Feint, Morph, 4 attacks, 240 control system for more control if you really want it.

Your idea of emergent is, move your mouse cause they were going to parry your attack. You can do that in Mordhau too, if not as easily. You can also morph your attack then drag. How is that not more emergent? Please explain since I don't understand you. Is it cause you can't float your attack the entire length of a parry?

Emergent gameplay is when you do something you didn't even know you could do before. Maybe something that not even the devs knew you could do, whether they designed the game to be emergent or not, this is how playstyles really diversify, and what I was really hoping the devs of mordhau would appreciate from chivalry and focus on in Mordhau. But that is not a thing in Mordhau and it seems like it never will be. You seem to think moments like when you discover "Oh wow i didn't think of chambering then morphing then feinting before." Are emergent enough lol what a joke. The system is confining and limiting so there is no such thing as an emergent piece of gameplay.

Oh no, I don't do emergent shit, I must be bad. Oh wait.
https://gfycat.com/WeepyBlankCoyote
https://gfycat.com/VelvetyHotGoral
https://gfycat.com/GorgeousSpitefulAmethystgemclam

Maybe you're just mad cause you can't crutch on your experience from Chiv?

Now to get personal. You had like 3 times my hours in chiv and I was better than you, so you clearly didn't have the ability to take full advantage of the system. So i can see why you'd be so defensive of a system designed to limit someone like me, who has the ability to go beyond it.

Or maybe you were bad at Chivalry too. All I remember of you in Chiv were random duel mode servers and you rage quitting often. Fun claims though, did you play against bots in Chiv too? Really going beyond that system, let me tell you.

@Cswic said:
If these archer hybrids are spending more time in melee because their melee loadout isn't as shitty shouldn't that make melee players happy? Now you have 1 less guy camping a tower spamming arrows and 1 more guy in melee.

That's a big if there. What is more likely to happen is that they'll still camp, but it'll be harder to kill them when you finally do get to them. Why would they purposely join the fray, unless it comes to them or they run out of arrows?

@idiotgod said:
What I meant by nub friendly is that it is easier to jump in and at least feel competent. It doesn't take a huge amount of hours to be able to at least survive for a bit against much better players.

It is easy to see how this is, when you have all your moves mapped out for you, where as in chiv, you had to figure out how to move your feet and your mouse at the same time, which is extremely difficult for a nub to understand. It takes like a hundred hours to even understand why you are being hit in Chivalry.

From my experience in the alpha currently this isn't really true at all. New players even when a hundred hours or so, get absolutely demolished still. There are a few exceptions, but they're definitely not the norm. You make the game sound like it has static moves or something.

and if you say something wrong on this forum you get shit on and made to feel like a nub idiot lol. So I think a lot more people are feeling this, and I want the devs to realize.

It's mostly just the OP, at least for me. He's had consistently dumb posts. I think my replies to you were mostly civil, I just corrected or had a differing opinion on most everything.

@idiotgod said:
Their goal seems to be to make it so nubs don't die as fast, and hopefully they'll tell their friends to buy the game so they can play it for 100 hours before they leave, compared to Chivalries 30 hours.

As Pred said, noobs gets absolutely slaughtered in this game.

Chivalry didn't hide the skill ceiling. It was laid bare, which most casual players don't appreciate and instead lament.
While hardcore players had the opposite reaction. They would come from level 15, a simple yet satisfying hack n slash game, and at level 16 realize there must be a lot more to it. It drives those players to get better and discover the ins and outs of combat.

This isn't a good thing. You want to preferably keep both types of players. Otherwise you sell 3 million copies but retain maybe 2-3k of those for more than 50 hours.

People say it looks retarded. But that is subjective. Go watch Obi-Wan and Anakin fight it out in Episode 3 lol and tell me how many reversals and spins they do.

No armor with a sword that requires no momentum to cut through something. If the setting wasn't medieval knights, then people wouldn't think it looks like shit. Or, they mean the animations are bad, maybe that.

It looked badass to me, and all these people saying Chivalry was pure shit are clueless. Do they know how many people have 1000, 2000, 3000 hours or more in that game? I don't see how Mordhau could hope to hit those numbers.

3000+ Chivalry hours here. Game is shit for lots of reasons. It had some things going for it too, like being the first of it's type, TO, funny sounds and gory visuals, etc. I have over 1000 Mordhau hours as well, and there are quite a few others that do too. When the game releases, it'll have funny sounds, gory visuals, big team mode, lots of shit for casuals to do, lots of character customization, etc. Lots of stuff to keep people playing. And fun is subjective.

I guess some people think it is a good thing that you can look at Mordhau and see all the ins and outs of combat within the first 5 minutes... then it is just attrition to learn the animations and build your reactions and shit. But I see it as a downgrade.

You think you can do that cause you played Chivalry first and have a basis for understanding what's possible. But that's also a detriment cause people play like it's Chivalry instead of trying new things. "It doesn't work like in Chiv, it must not be possible!" I get lots of "wtf" reactions in game for doing things that people haven't seen yet.

You didn't have to drag in any specific way to be good at Chivalry. You didn't have to Feint to be good at Chivalry. You didn't have to do reversals to be good at chivalry. Fighting each player told a unique story. They each had their own style. You could play the way you wanted.
In Mordhau, you're gonna play the right way, or you're just gonna be bad. That is how I see combat as more simplistic. Just learn the animations, build your reaction speeds, and play the right way. The combat system currently has fewer viable emergent playstyles period. Doesn't matter that there are more buttons you can push if they all fall into such a neat little tiny box of acceptable times to do them.

This is all mostly wrong, you don't have to play a single way in Mordhau, exactly the same as you don't have to in Chivalry. I probably feint less than most players with lots of hours but still top scoreboards. People flock to whatever they think the meta is instead of trying stuff on their own and then think they have to play a certain way. You don't.