Mordhau
 ASeriousSalamander
  • Likes received 12
  • Date joined 13 May
  • Last seen 17 Sep

Private Message

19 12

Just a few tweaks for invasion:

  1. Do the Warden and Commander have some form of fireproof? They should, otherwise, firepot spamming will end games very quickly.

  2. You should probably let people pass Warden and Commander if they don't want it.

  3. Let Warden and Commander have free reign, it was always fun in Chiv to have battle kings charge into the fray.

  4. Maybe let the cart be slightly pushed back on some maps? You'll have to test where it's appropriate to let the defending team push back, but I think this will make it a bit more balanced to defend.

19 12

Removing combo feint to parry will have a few effects:

  1. People will choose the longest weapon and poke

  2. 1vX situations will become nearly impossible

I don't see why combo feint to parry is so hard to understand, it's a natural extension of the game mechanics. And don't bring in the "it looks unrealistic argument", there are countless animations and things in this game that look unrealistic, you don't balance a game around realism.

I have no issues with adjusting / nerfing CFTP, but flat out removing it is a terrible idea in my opinion.

19 12

@crushed said:

@Frise said:
adding a 50 - 100 ms no-feint window to combo windups

I agree with this, would be good to test for missed combo windups. It's been on my list for a while, we just haven't had the chance to test new combat mechanics due to other things being a higher priority currently. Combat can always be improved, fixing 1 frame CFTP's is certainly one of those things.

Yeah this seems like a reasonable adjustment to at least test. I'm against removing CFTP however.

19 12

Falchion
Bastard Sword + Targe
Falchion + Buckler

19 12

@Sorry said:

@GIRUGIRU said:
No CFTP is awful, all it constitutes is people missing and then running away (which looks dumb), chambers become cancer because it's way riskier to commit to big drags so as a result chambering becomes way easier. 1vX goes down the shitter because comboing just becomes a reckless idea when you're fighting multiple enemies, and you also massively drop the skill ceiling because being able to punish misses is a skill in itself. XvX meta would forever just involve people wanting to take long weapons and poke from distance

No CFTP was tried in chiv and it completely killed the game, it's a shit idea and it will never work. The freedom of attack cancelling is the glue to the game and shouldn't be flat out removed, ever.

Forcing someone to CFTP in a 1v1 scenario can win you most duels because of how expensive it is. Assuming all stamina costs are 7:
7(miss) + 7(combo) + 7(feint), + 7(parry) = 28. That's ALOT of stamina to be throwing away

Ontop of that you can drag, feint, "waterfall, morph, morph drag and kick someone who lost initiative from missing. If you feel that you make enemies miss alot but can't get the punish, use faster weps because you can definitely punish misses in this game if you know what you're doing. If you're worried about people gambling, you can just safely rape their stamina with a simple accelerated attack, not a big deal

"if you're enemies miss a lot but can't get the punish, use faster weapons" you're solutions is to completely decimate the effective weapon pool, hmm definitely sounds a balanced approach. Also I would argue that 1vX should not be easy at all, comboing should be a reckless high risk high reward mechanic, not the go to standard play with cftp in your pocket to save your ass. let this skill cap come from footwork, positioning and well executed attacks and block, the current attack spam and cftp is getting old fast

Except 1vX situations against even marginally skilled opponents is incredibly difficult as it is, removing CFTP would make them nearly impossible.

Also, CFTP is almost required for countering long, stabby weapons. How else do you approach if someone is simply stabbing, pushing you back and backpedaling? You can never regain initiative if you have to approach defensively the entire time.

19 12

@Mittsies said:
The last patchie was June 22nd; 58 days ago.

The longer something in Mordhau stays unchanged, the more the frustration it builds up for players. It would be unrealistic to expect a brand new map or big content patch every week, but it's NOT unreasonable to want a few tweaks every now and then to keep things in line. Everyone knows there's a big patch on the way with new maps, ranking, balance changes, fixes, and all sorts of goodies, but it's easy to lose interest altogether in the meantime. It's very unhealthy for the community to let the game go without a patch for so long, it makes players feel like nobody is listening. The consistent negativity and chanting of "dead game" that follows going without a patch for several months at a time scares off potential new players and makes current players just quit and move on.


I said last year during the alpha:

Is releasing a quick patch important?
The main issue with such long periods between patches is that it temporarily nukes the playerbase, turning the game into a ghost town until the next patch. For the small pool of alpha players, it's not a big deal, but if this continues after the game is released it could be a real problem. It would be disastrous to allow the post-release playerbase sit on a broken patch for several months, things like that could really hurt the game's future. If the patch itself doesn't do it, the negativity from the community will. I've already seen it happen: the veterans whining and complaining in chat about how the current patch is shitty and broken, and it really gives the newer players (beta/earlybird wave) a bad impression of the game. Combine that negativity with a long wait for the next patch, and you've got an uninstall.

(source)


This is an on-going issue with the development of Mordhau. Something needs to change, or the game's concurrent playerbase will be damaged beyond repair, and somewhere down the line even a huge patchie could fail to bring back more than a few thousand players. 4~5 weeks is the absolute maximum we should go without a patchie, even just a handful of quick tweaks and fixes, and 2~3 weeks is the absolute maximum we should go without some kind of development update / communication from the developers.

Yeah, they need to rollout smaller fixes in waves and save big content updates for larger updates. For example, they could have fixed (nerfed) horses and firepots along with a few other small numerical balance tweaks to weapons instead of trying to couple it with ranked, invasion and two new maps.

Even if they are only token changes, they would do a lot to make people more understanding in waiting for the larger patches. In general, I feel like people are more understanding in waiting for new content, but less willing to live with obvious bugs and serious balance issues.

19 12

@PC_Principal said:
I wouldn't usually call for removal of anything but removing bloodlust would be a good choice. (or at least optional ability to do so for 3rd party server owners)
Or just nerf it, make it not work for horse riders first of all and give it a 10 second healing cooldown. So if you get 2-3 kills in 10 seconds bloodlust has a downside because you only heal on the first kill. This way it would still be somewhat viable if you timed your kills and attacks but also a chance for enemies to notice you just healed and focus you because you're on cooldown.

Cooldown is probably the best way to nerf it but keep it relevant, but this would add some uncertainty in having to add some sort of indicator for when it is on or off cooldown.

Maybe have it only heal for a set percentage / amount of health?

19 12

@SWSeriousMike said:
You can always mix it up. Bug fixes should get deployed in small updates. Content can be released in larger chunks.

Shit like the out of bounds capturing in Grad shouldn't have taken weeks to get fixed. Server labels should have been taken care of months ago. Also Crossroads fixes should be deployed before Feitoria is ready.

This. You need smaller updates to fix clearly broken things and some minor balance issues. Then larger patches with content and more sweeping balance changes. It also gives the meta time to settle if you do more frequent smaller balance updates.

19 12

@Archangelo said:

@Aodlop said:
I don't mean imbalanced, sure you can counter them.
But the isuse lies with the amount (or rather the lack of thereof) of efforts necessary for them to be effective. Someone who is worse than you at the game can still get better results because of how easy it is to stab spam with either a long range weapon like the spear or a very fast one like the rapier.
Both these weapons are very frustrating to play against.
Losing to someone with a greatsword, an axe or a mace doesn't feel bad. He outplayed us, fine, we died, it's okay. Losing to some idiot with a rapier, though? We all know how frustrating it can be. Especially when they start doing this right after: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAQakz59D_8

Point being: f*ck stab weapons.

Mace has the most obnoxious stab in the game, closely followed by all the axes. All stabs are within 25 ms of 350 ms release time, stabby weapons are gimped.

I really dislike this too actually. I get that it's a utility stab that doesn't do much damage, but I'd much rather they slow these particular stabs down a touch and buff other aspects of the weapon if need be.

19 12

@smug said:

As for high level play, of course no one spams stab

Define "spamming stabs" because spears/halbs are important in high level team play lol.

That's a good point haha, I meant high level duels you typically have to mix it up.

19 12

@LoPan said:

@ASeriousSalamander said:

@TombstoneJack said:
DeAr GoD hE hAs A sPeAr I wOnDeR wHaT aTtAcK hEs GoInG tO dO

but seriously if the weapons main source of dmg comes from stabs there PROBABLY going to try to stab you a lot just learn to morph off a chamber and you destroy stab spammers with zero effort

The problem with this statement is that if you want this game to grow, you can't just consider / balance around high level players, that's a mistake (and yes, I know Mordhau was designed as a competitive offshoot to chivalry).

I think the main issue with stabs is they present a really high skill floor which has created a meta in casual play of just using stab weapons (with or without a shield). This can be frustrating for a lot of new players (who are necessary if you want the game to grow and thrive) as there are a lot of moving parts to learn in this kind of game as you're starting out.

I'd support reworking stabs for this reason and this reason alone. But I also think stabs present a problem at higher levels, not for balance reasons but for utility reasons. Stabs carry the least risk, and have the most reward of any attack type in the game. I wouldn't mind other attacks being buffed or stabs being reworked in some capacity for these reasons.

I haven’t met a single high tier player who uses stab more than any other swing type coupled w drags/accels. I think you just play a lot of bad players who beat you w stab spam. That’s just what it sounds like to me.

So I really don't want to get into this, because I consider myself a good, but not great player, but I used to play chivalry competitively and I have a fair number of hours in this game, so I by no means have issues with stab spam.

My point was simply that the future of this game also depends on getting new players and growing the community. I will say that most every new player I've met has been frustrated with how easy it is to succeed by simply stab spamming people who don't know how to counter it. And just saying "get good" or "learn how to chamber" is not the right attitude to get people to enjoy / try out the game.

As for high level play, of course no one spams stab, it would be entirely too predictable. My point was simply that stabs offer the most utility out of any attack and I think its relatively undeniable that stab feints and stab morphs are far stronger than their counterparts.

19 12

@TombstoneJack said:
DeAr GoD hE hAs A sPeAr I wOnDeR wHaT aTtAcK hEs GoInG tO dO

but seriously if the weapons main source of dmg comes from stabs there PROBABLY going to try to stab you a lot just learn to morph off a chamber and you destroy stab spammers with zero effort

The problem with this statement is that if you want this game to grow, you can't just consider / balance around high level players, that's a mistake (and yes, I know Mordhau was designed as a competitive offshoot to chivalry).

I think the main issue with stabs is they present a really high skill floor which has created a meta in casual play of just using stab weapons (with or without a shield). This can be frustrating for a lot of new players (who are necessary if you want the game to grow and thrive) as there are a lot of moving parts to learn in this kind of game as you're starting out.

I'd support reworking stabs for this reason and this reason alone. But I also think stabs present a problem at higher levels, not for balance reasons but for utility reasons. Stabs carry the least risk, and have the most reward of any attack type in the game. I wouldn't mind other attacks being buffed or stabs being reworked in some capacity for these reasons.

19 12

@smug said:

Although Mordhau has no truly unreadable attacks

Is this a parody piece.

Is that why top players are complaining about bastard sword mixups and stabs in general? Not to mention riposte footdrags etc. Perhaps things would be different in a 0 ping LAN environment, but no one is hard reading bastard sword mixups unless you count buffering chambers and stab gambles as "reading".

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G_ZiSxcUNFcVWSmpCS0lJZ5SY7JlkOWwEJl0o7ijujY/edit

I'm not against "unreadable" attacks btw, just the way they work in Mordhau is flawed due to the low execution ceiling.

I think it's safe to say that the majority of reasonable players would agree that simple-to-input attacks that are also exceedingly hard to read (Even by top tier players) have no place in the game, but at what point should even the difficult-to-perform maneuvers be nerfed or removed due to how inconsistent they are to read?

There should be higher skill ceiling offense in this game, but that means buffing swing manipulation to chiv levels which uhh also means a fucked up game for 90% of the population who aren't competitive players. There's also a risk-to-reward factor that's hard to balance, for example why take the time to learn the wessex undercut drag that even Wizardish cant do when there are literally lower effort attacks that take 0 time to master and do the same amount of damage? This is the case in fighting games where there would be 0 point in learning optimal combo routes if they did the same dmg as a noob bread n butter combo. I don't see a future where certain drags doing more damage is actually a thing.

There's also the issue of balancing for team games AND duel which I think is responsible for a lot of things wrong with Mordhau.

Agree with everything here. I'm nowhere near as good as all my old chiv buddies I see on that list, but I have many hours of experience and stab feints have been a problem since the very beginning of chivalry. Honestly, it's much more advantageous in this game to gamble against stab feints and either hope for the interrupt or chamber. Reading stab feints, especially with one handed weapons, is not realistic when you factor in ping / animations.

My other issue is weapons with insanely fast ripostes (mace stab, cleaver, a few other stab ripostes), I have pretty decent reflexes, but both of these seem like they push the limits of reaction times for an online game.

19 12

@Monsteri said:
Chamber window is 300ms for strikes, 275ms for stabs. Keep in mind the windup is burning away for this whole window and chambers that connect late will thus be incredibly fast.

Ahh that'd explain it, thanks for the info!

19 12

Is there an official timing for chambers? It doesn't seem like it matches windup timings.

While my reflexes are definitely not as good now that I'm a bit older, billhook/spear stab chambers seem really fast to me.

19 12

Just wondering if it was possible to list the names of colors next to their palette description for customization purposes. I'm fairly color blind and can never put together a nice customization.

19 12

@Amish said:
Imagine Drake is playing Mordhau, with 628k people watching him play, and then the N word is dropped 50 times in chat.

With the major success of the game, you're going to have a wide range of people playing Mordhau from casual players to competitive. I think it's very believable that a percentage of the casual population do not want to see hate speech about certain ethnicities or genders while they are trying to play a video game. As we know the team that created this game is on the smaller side, and manually sending reports to them & the moderation team is only putting a bandaid after the injury occurred. Having a chat filter (be it toggleable or not) will help decrease this, as if someone can't type racial slurs, then there's no need for those reports anymore.

What I would like to know is why anyone would be against a toggleable chat filter? What harm does this have you in any way?

@muNt said:

@Amish said:
Agreed. It would be nice for there to be some sort of chat filter to help prevent the racism in the chat.

unagreed, why

Official servers at least need a higher level of moderation, be it a filter or in-game moderators or whatever. I've seen pretty rampant abuse, and derogatory language / epithets and it certainly won't help this game grow or reach a wider audience. It's also just unpleasant for the current player base.

19 12

@Dekkers said:
The real reason we need a map editor (apart from me being eager to make maps) is that a good variety in maps can make the difference between a player quitting a game after 5-6 months of after 2-3 years (a bit over exaggerated perhaps but you get the point).

Having only 6 maps, or a few more if they add some, will become boring fairly quickly. Heck, I am already bored of Taiga which leaves 3 maps remaining when I play Frontline.

Honestly, in my humble opinion making map tools should be a top priority for the developer team. I mean, if they succeed they can literally let the community take care of the whole map issue.

That aside, people will also be able to turn 'Frontline' more into 'Siege' so you practically add a gamemode without adding a new gamemode. This is something I know many people would like to see, given that sieges truly belong in a medieval era game, in my opinion anyway.

Especially since they are a small dev team. A map creation tool + map contest would work wonders for taking some work off their hands and adding a lot of variety. Four frontline maps is pretty thin and most happen to be a little imbalanced.

19 12

Look, I'm not saying that you need to censor every single bad word in this game and a little trash talk can be fun, but you desperately need moderators in-game in your official servers. I see people regularly just spamming racist and abusive chat. Yes, you can mute them but if you want to create a welcoming environment for all players, you also need to show people that they can't just do that without repercussion. Vote kicking doesn't work when most people are apathetic. I don't know if this is the right solution, but you should at least try to cut down on the toxicity someway.