Mordhau
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  • Likes received 165
  • Date joined 6 May
  • Last seen 1 Aug

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109 165
  • 18 May
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I... really don't think it's any more complicated than that your weapons have to hit each other rather than hitting anyone's body. So: Sure, because of the nature of the animations, if you're facehugging someone and swinging from opposite directions it certainly does seem likely that you would hit each others bodies and not clash. But if you were swinging from the same side, it seems likely that you might clash, although if one of you is swinging overhead and the other is swinging underhand then it seems much less likely. Obviously enough.

I mean, it's just a matter of the animations and the exact situation. It's just a matter of where the weapons are and whether they're hitting each other. It's not a matter of "odds", although to some degree they could increase the "odds" of a sword clash by giving weapons a big ridiculous invisible clash bubble around them that made them clash with other weapons even if they weren't actually colliding.

109 165
  • 3
  • 17 May
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@dueldragon said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure a clash initiates when you and the opponent swing at roughly the same time from opposite angles (You begin to swing from the top left angle, and the opponent starts his swing at roughly the same time from the top right angle) you can win a clash if using footwork and swinging at the same time, maybe the drag is related as well.

It's straightforward enough to correct you. If you watch the two different videos posted in this thread, they show two different kinds of clashing. In my video, the swings are going in the same direction, in the other guy's video, the swings are going in opposite directions.

edit rambling:
I'm pretty sure that clashes are simply when two attacks tracers/hitboxes collide (regardless of what attacks they are, e.g. you can probably clash a stab with your own swing). Clashes allow you to attack again immediately. You can "win" a clash fight by managing to hit the other person's body with your weapon before their weapon hits your weapon or your body, which is going to depend mostly on your weapon speed and your accel, although if you dodge their attack completely while swinging that would work too. I wonder if you can parry after a clash to just nope out of a clash fight.

I'm really curious if it's possible to deliberately use clashes, since most of what I've seen of clashes has been accidents. For instance, a really fast weapon could theoretically counterplay a long and slow weapon by deliberately clashing (when in a range where your short weapon can't hit) and then following up faster than the slower weapon can respond (although for all I know the slower guy can just parry in that case?). What makes clashes hard to do deliberately is that 1. they're precise and 2. they require you to be in your Release, which means you have to start your swing pretty early, so you probably don't have time to observe what swing the enemy is using and pick a swing to clash it with unless you're using a super fast weapon and they're using a super slow weapon.

So instead, I imagine clashing could be used like... you pick a wide, draggable swing and attack at the same time as the opponent, and adjust your swing with dragging depending on whether you think you can hit first or whether you think you should go for a clash instead. Although if you're in a range where you can hit the opponent, I don't know why you wouldn't go for a hit instead of a clash... so maybe it's only (deliberately) useful when you have a shorter faster weapon against a longer slower weapon and you're out of range. Or maybe I'm not thinking broadly enough (which is likely.)

109 165
  • 1
  • 17 May
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I've had some games recently where players on one team RQ'd because they were getting rolled, leaving that team hopelessly outskilled and outnumbered, and either I switched to help that team or, if I was already on that team, I bitched in chat and sometimes convinced someone to switch to the losing team. So team switch can totally be used for good.

(My "bitching" strategy is to point out the team imbalance and then say something like "switch to blue team if you want an exciting challenge" :P)

Definitely agree votekicks should show team damage.

109 165
  • 17 May
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@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Actually! They're a perfect example of shield balance. (Targe and Buckler)

They get a wide parry and stamina negation

Targe and buckler's Advanced stats pages say that their blocking angles are actually smaller than any normal weapon's blocking angles, although their blocking area could still be larger if the radius starts at the edge of the shield model and the shield model is large? Has anyone proven whether or not Targe blocks a larger area?

Targe's stamina negation is 12, which is the same as Falchion's stamina negation, so the value of Targe as stronger stamina negation is also pretty small, although it still helps for outliers like Rapier (which only has 10 negation).

(Buckler's stamina negation is 13, which is on par with large but non-peasant weapons. Meanwhile, there are peasant weapons with 16 stamina negation. Those are the real stamina tank weapons. :P)

(I wonder what happens if you block a Rapier, drain 15, with a 16-negation peasant weapon. Does it drain 1? Does it drain 0? ,':^I)

109 165
  • 17 May
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@Kuro1n said:
Not sure if that is the kind of modding they will allow us to do, I would be surprised considering it is a mp game and everyone else would need your assets as well. Very nice looking lightsaber though, what is the poly count?

There was this Mordhau-with-lightsabers gif from quite a while ago. Possibly made the devs as a teaser for mod support? I guess?

I would assume there could be client-side model replacements that don't change the actual hitboxes or weapon behavior, but it would be really neat to see server-side mods that change things for everyone.

109 165
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  • 17 May
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My understanding is just that a clash happens when weapon damage tracers collide with each other. So I'm pretty sure you can stab a swing, although I can't say I have a video of it. I remember stabbing a projectile out of the air accidentally, haha. I think the main reason clashes don't happen that often is just because they're so precise/exact. I've never deliberately tried to clash an attack but this topic makes me want to try.

One time a carving knife guy got a bunch of hits on me because his attacks kept clashing mine and his followups were faster. That was wild.

109 165
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  • 16 May
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Eh, hold a shield up and wear level 3 leg armor and you're pretty comfy against arrows from the front. Then wear a pavise on your back to cover that side too

A forcefield hitbox against arrows would feel really gross for archers. Being able to shoot around shields is very much by design. Although... I would like if the initial hitbox when parrying with a shield was larger (just for the duration of a normal parry) so you could manually parry arrows that might otherwise hit around your shield.

109 165
  • 1
  • 16 May
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On the topic of both final fantasy and clashing, here's a funny clashing moment from a vid i just made :^)

109 165
  • 16 May
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I think you basically just need to spam followup attacks to win a clash battle, and obviously accel your slashes so that you actually hit the person instead of just clashing again. You should arguably already be in the habit of inputting followup spam, because inputting combos is necessary for CFTP-ing, and always being ready to CFTP means you'll never get whiff punished that badly.

At least that's how I understand it. I'm not a duel god or anything.

109 165
  • 16 May
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I'm just cross-posting this from General.

See here.

109 165
  • 16 May
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[audible wink]

109 165
  • 2
  • 16 May
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jesus christ how wild

and it looks like it really is just massive ghost disjoint (the red hitboxes are waaay displaced from the blade's actual model).

Your first swing also looks like it has a ton of green(?) hitboxes that the second swing doesn't have. Wonder what's up with that.

(aside: It's funny how, seeing those tracers, I guess if you want to hit with the earliest possible accel with your cleaver, you have to be facing completely away from the opponent?)

hopefully a dev pokes their head in here and confirms that they've seen this and are gonna fix it :>

@marox pls

109 165
  • 1
  • 16 May
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@Shields said:
instead only used them to block

I guess by this you mean only holding block when you NEED to (to counter a feint/morph or multiple attacks in quick succession from the front). Although it's worth noting that a feint or morph can be cancelled into a kick, so the exact moment when you might actually need to use shield's Hold mechanic is also a moment where a kick is a major threat to you.

I'm really really curious if shields can get to (or perhaps have already gotten to) a spot where they're a legitimate balanced and interesting alternative playstyle with its own pros and cons (as a legitimate lower-attack higher-defense counterpart to 2-hander).

109 165
  • 16 May
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@Botas said:
They have agains ANYTHING that counters 2 handed weapons, the changes to kick only affect SHIELDS what other fucking evidence you want?

[Evil voice]
"Fathom this, you imbecile, "

It's theoretically possible that balance could be achieved by having Kick behave differently vs shield. If that solves the balance issues. There's no reason why that would necessarily result in an unbalance against shields. One mechanic does not define the entire balance.

You're kinda dumb!

109 165
  • 16 May
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Ha, that's pretty weird. 45cm vs 75cm. That text is definitely wrong, I mean that would be a huge, very visible difference in length, but maybe there's a big ghost glitch hitbox or something. I guess you didn't test hitting a wall with one and then the other to see how the range compares?

109 165
  • 16 May
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Buddy at this point you're just spamming.

109 165
  • 16 May
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@As5Hat said:
yup. nerfing the shield made my day. now i can hunt them all down.

A remark like that is just going to further convince Boat-ass that the devs have a vendetta against shields. The nerf to shield is meant to make it balanced, not garbage. Although I get that what you mean is that you can hunt down low-skill people who use shield as a crutch.

109 165
  • 16 May
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Option 1: Evade the kick. They're stationary while kicking, and it has some windup to it, so landing a kick on a retreating, evasive target is still rather awkward.

Option 2: Drop your shield before the kick hits you so you don't get stunned so hard. Bonus points if you counterkick to actually block the kick.

109 165
  • 1
  • 16 May
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Botas your constant barrage of insults is unlikely to bring people to your side.

Also I'm pretty sure you can hold your shield up and use footwork to mess with the enemy's attempts to kick, still.

@unabridgedpenis said:
This isn't the civil rights issue you seem to think it is.

made me lol

109 165
  • 1
  • 16 May
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@Botas said:
Fine now that they nerfed the shit out of them for the sake of 2 handed builds, this community is cancer, full hypocrite selfish people.

You're really on a tear huh.

It wasn't "for the sake of 2-handed builds," fighting against a shield user was tedious no matter what weapon you had. And I certainly don't want shield to end up being trash. I want shield to be viable, and specifically viable in a not-boring way. It's possible that this patch actually achieved that; I don't know yet. I've only started using shield after this patch.