Mordhau
 Esselbink
  • Likes received 20
  • Date joined 30 Apr
  • Last seen 10 Jul

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35 20

@DefendinMyBase said:

@Esselbink said:

This. You can twist it all you want but adding females because of 'customisation' will be a bad move for the game eventually and I can assume the reason for it in 2015 also was to swap two flies at once which adds dodging future racist and sexist remarks from the SJW journo's and ppl. All the people countering this with "muh shrek tomato ppl oh no not realistic also" are comparing apples with oranges, those customisations actually have something to add besides customisation: comedy. Monty Python style humor because of the same context. Love women, but not in this context.

That is not what I said.

I know. I agree with what you said and added my own views.

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  • 6 Jul
 Esselbink

@DefendinMyBase said:

I'm sure you're really immersed with all the shrek, cavemen, tomate, mario, nazis and other cosplays everywhere and, of course, retards spamming megalovania on lutebot just increase that muh immersion feeling

See, with that I call it comedic disconnect. There’s nothing amusing about a chick in plate, but there’s something fundamentally hilarious at seeing six guys in a Shrek cosplay spamming emotes and voice lines. And it’s because at the end of the day this is just a video game friends are enjoying around the world with each other.

No matter how much you tryhard or don’t there’s a significantly large group of people just trying to make themselves and others laugh at a collective joke. The lutbox stuff is a welcome relief for me at least because I can get very frustrated with this game at times, so having something like that, or the skateboarding pavises, or funny cosplays, or really really really ugly face models, it’s a nice breather.

It is, at the end of the day a video game, and anyone taking this game too seriously is going to be sorely disappointed eventually. But my main point is this is a bad argument for the aforementioned reasons. It’s not like the game doesn’t feel ungrounded because of a few dudes having a laugh, not for me at least. I can’t imagine being that much of a fuddy duddy I can’t appreciate a good or even passable joke.

There’s even the carrot on Crossroads, and the various memes in the voice lines the devs have put in that make this game really funny. And that’s just something else entirely, acknowledging this is a big dumb video game people are enjoying around the world. I feel like that has become an avenue of attack and justification for something that doesn’t need to be justified and certainly not in such a clueless way. It entirely misses the point and seems, to me, imply that women in armor is as ridiculous as Shrek in a mercenary company.

It’s a flawed comparison when you consider that one is being presented as normal and the other a blatant joke. And it does a disservice to the devs to reduce their choices and efforts to such petty arguments. B5987D76-0B2B-4F36-93E4-D510A6B7E779.jpeg

This. You can twist it all you want but adding females because of 'customisation' will be a bad move for the game eventually and I can assume the reason for it in 2015 also was to swap two flies at once which adds dodging future racist and sexist remarks from the SJW journo's and ppl. All the people countering this with "muh shrek tomato ppl oh no not realistic also" are comparing apples with oranges, those customisations actually have something to add besides customisation: comedy. Monty Python style humor because of the same context. Love women, but not in this context.

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  • 13 Jun
 Esselbink

@Borschik said:
Maybe you run into swings of your teammates and they vote you out for that.

This is inherently a problem on the side of the one swinging. I get TK'ed a lot by people who just swing around like mad and when I say something about it I get some cynical edgy reply which says that I should watch out for their swings, reverse logic. On Chivalry most people, when a tk happens, replied with a quick sorry but here they're mostly putting it on you. Maybe since this game holds many more casuals because of the popularity.

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  • 13 Jun
 Esselbink

@Dialectic said:
And let me just try to clarify something since we're all just talking past each other anyways. I think most people would prefer politeness online, that voice and text chat would be reasonably mature. Some people may find it funny, but I think the majority preference is for some civility.

But lack of civility doesnt mean we think it's some sort of epidemic specific to the mordhau community, or that new and complex systems have to be put in place.

When I say "deal with it," I dont mean that incivility is ok. I mean that as an adult who can't fix every problem in existence, you have to recognize when you're tilting at windmills and prioritize other things

Posts like this are great. I like the way you voice your opinion in that constructive manner. Not in way that is inherently condescending. The thing is imo that, since it’s obviously naive and near impossible to actually influence the negative behaviour this way, it is important to voice the things that are wrong with the game, to make use of the point of a public feedback forum.

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  • 13 Jun
 Esselbink

@ToLazy4Name said:

@Esselbink said:
The name calling, even teamkilling, vote-kicking and the, for real really nasty ass, trash talking is growing rapidly. I've played 80 hours or so now and I've definitely seen it grow.

how do you people find trash talking worse than actual griefing? I can't comprehend this shit

You people? Yikes. And I don't as I said when it gets real nasty I just disable the chat. But then there are griefers who you can't get around, and their numbers are growing.

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  • 13 Jun
 Esselbink

I beam the subject of this thread. I for one am not someone easily offended or triggered by random dudes online, but the offensive slurs, toxicity, racism and edginess coming from this community really takes the cake a lot of times. The name calling, even teamkilling, vote-kicking and the, for real really nasty ass, trash talking is growing rapidly. I've played 80 hours or so now and I've definitely seen it grow.

Of course you can disable the chat to ignore the shitshow going on there, but I sometimes like to converse with people in-game to get shit done or just to have fun convo's but It's just sad and literally game-breaking for a lot of people because of the vote-kicks and teamkills.

@ OP just ignore the people throwing ad hominem's at you, there a more people thinking the same as you do.

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  • 13 Jun
 Esselbink

@Varathius said:
Fine with me if I can turn it off. Reason being the trolls that all choose black characters and funny names.

Also, once you implement them, you can 100% rest assure that racism remarks will rise (not by me but by morons). You have been warned.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Esselbink said:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Esselbink said:
When someone says something on a forum for public feedback that I don't agree with I don't feel the urge to bash and call them out.

-

@Esselbink said:
Jesus christ it's easy to bait some of y'all, edgy moral knights. How dare anyone oppose the almighty all-inclusiveness in games?!

Again, implying things that aren't there. Please improve your interpretation skills. I already told you that it wasn't meant to bait people but it clearly did and triggered a lot of yall. I just told people that i'd be out if women were added, that is not calling out nor bashing. Keep making your fake point I'm done. On my way to some more frontline goodness.

You didn't just tell that. You added a nonsensical insult and obvious hyperbole, again with the intention to insult. You got exactly what you asked for, friendo. That's not a global SJW conspiracy.

Once again, I didn’t ask for anything you’re making assumptions, once again. The edgy moral knight description is not nonsensical at all. I got called out for all kinds of things without people taking non-sexism in consideration. Then you are, to me, edgy and feeling morally superior, hence the insult. That is something totally different then bashing random people online who post something that you don’t agree with, like the people that called me out. Didn’t mean to argue, didn’t mean to bait but it sure is easy is all.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Corsario said:
With this thing about "it's not a historically accurate representation of medieval combat", where is the limit to this accuracy? Only devs can tell us.

Opposing to certain elements of "non-accuracy" which lean the game futher away from "historical" representation is a legitimate alignement, so please quit the racist/sexist/moralizing bashing please (unless statements are genuinely intolerant).

All I wanted to say is that I'm sure there is plenty of people that want the game to stay as realistic as possible, even though this boundary has already been trespassed. One way of introducing black skin tone would be to leave if it for the "Middle-eastern" DLC or expansion and bind it to the use of it's specific gear.

Thank you.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Rattsknecht said:
why the fuck do you assume it will be 50% women

Why the aggression m8. That is because I've played quite a lot of Battlefield V and seen it happen which I didn't like. More 60% m - 40% f.

35 20
  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Esselbink said:
When someone says something on a forum for public feedback that I don't agree with I don't feel the urge to bash and call them out.

-

@Esselbink said:
Jesus christ it's easy to bait some of y'all, edgy moral knights. How dare anyone oppose the almighty all-inclusiveness in games?!

Again, implying things that aren't there. Please improve your interpretation skills. I already told you that it wasn't meant to bait people but it clearly did and triggered a lot of yall. I just told people that i'd be out if women were added, that is not calling out nor bashing. Keep making your fake point I'm done. On my way to some more frontline goodness.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Deadmode said:
I'm saying it shouldn't matter at all. This isn't a historically accurate representation of medieval combat. You are already fighting many implausible enemy builds in unrealistic ratios so I feel that argument, and with it the immersion argument, is moot.

And that is why I said that we should agree to disagree. The evidence you put out doesn't quite help you in refuting my points of view imo. I just think excluding women is better then inclusion since I think inclusion will lead to over-representation and therefore even less realism and also yes, pandering to the SJW's. I aint trying to convince anyone and I respect other's views on this. Again, I'm just speaking about what I believe.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Deadmode said:

@Esselbink said:
Women did not fight back then like knights did

This is just completely wrong. You only have to do a little googling to find lots of accounts of women leading troops in battle and famous female fighters (Eleanor of Aquitaine, Aethelflaed and of course, Joan of Arc, to name a few (see a list here). There's even fantastic accounts such as the Order of the Hatchet.

@Esselbink said:
Moreover peasant uprisings were a thing back then but you wouldn't see women engaging in the brawls.

And you have evidence that peasant uprisings didn't include women? I can find evidence to the contrary here.

@Esselbink said:
The deal with adding people of color (and also women), imo, just seems to be a case of pandering to social justice and that is, imo a problem that is bigger than just this game.

And here we get to the crux! You are fighting against inclusivity of minorities because you don't want to 'pander to social justice'. As my retorts highlight, your arguments have no factual basis, you just don't like SJWs and you're using this proposed feature coming to Mordhau as a way of forcing your views, which you say you don't do.

As I said, in the right context your standpoint is valid and I would join you in preventing inclusion for inclusion sake, but that isn't the case here. Women and black people fought in the middle ages and have just as much a place in this particular game as anything else.

That's nice and all but singular events and people do not justify adding them in the game to be equally represented. Of course shit like that happened back then, I know my history, but not to the degree that is worth considering in my opinion. Same goes for the women in BFV.

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  • 1
  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@SWSeriousMike said:
Don't try to weasel your way out of this. "Just voicing my dissatisfaction" my ass. This fine piece here is yours, isn't it?

@Esselbink said:
Jesus christ it's easy to bait some of y'all, edgy moral knights. How dare anyone oppose the almighty all-inclusiveness in games?! Adding females and people of color ruins the immersion for a lot of people. It already isn't that realistic and historically accurate but there is a line and I think that that line is already perfectly drawn. Might aswell add some pirates with wooden limbs next then.

I really wonder why you were called out for this...

How is that not voicing my dissatisfaction, you're trying to imply something that isn't there. I said that I'm not fine with women in the game and that clearly easily baited a lot of people, probably like you. That doesn't mean it was meant to bait people. Maybe triggering is the right word here but I don't care since English isn't my main language. That 'piece' right there says why because people started to get mad asf and I felt I had to clear up why. When someone says something on a forum for public feedback that I don't agree with I don't feel the urge to bash and call them out.

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  • 2
  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Deadmode said:
@Esselbink what immersion is it breaking? Women and black people fought in wars in the middle ages. Chefs with pans, Cavemen, Shrek and the KKK not so much. The 'immersion' argument is entirely moot with the content that is in Mordhau, it's not a fucking simulation of a particular thing, but a medieval-themed fictitious arcade melee game. I cannot understand how slashing at someone dressed as a tomato doesn't break your 'immersion' but a facing off against a black person would. Can you not see how stupid that sounds?

So for what reason does seeing a female warrior or black person break your 'immersion'? What is being triggered for you if it isn't misogyny or racism?

Look, I'm not here to go into a discussion with anyone but since I'm getting called out the whole time this is my last add to this convo. To me the game definitely is immersive as I feel like fighting in a medieval battle, that just has to do with imagination and to what details I pay attention to. I already said that there are immersion-breaking things already in-game, since it's not aimed to be completely historically accurate and realistic, but ADDING more things that contribute to the breaking of the immersion is just not right imo. Women did not fight back then like knights did, that is the same Battlefield V argument for women in the second world war. Black mercenaries did and therefore I addressed women more in this particular situation. Knights with bright coloured armoury is not immersion breaking for me since it reinforces the idea of character personalisation and again peasants with household objects has a more 'Monty Python' ish feel to it and therefore is just a case of adding humor to the experience. Moreover peasant uprisings were a thing back then but you wouldn't see women engaging in the brawls. The deal with adding people of color (and also women), imo, just seems to be a case of pandering to social justice and that is, imo a problem that is bigger than just this game.

Let's just agree to disagree, this is how I think it is and how I feel it should be. I know more people think about it this way, but you don't see me trying to convince someone else of my believes, unless I get called out. I'm just voicing my dissatisfaction.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Deadmode said:

@Esselbink said:
Jesus christ it's easy to bait some of y'all, edgy moral knights. How dare anyone oppose the almighty all-inclusiveness in games?! Adding females and people of color ruins the immersion for a lot of people. It already isn't that realistic and historically accurate but there is a line and I think that that line is already perfectly drawn. Might aswell add some pirates with wooden limbs next then.

You're happy to have Vikings fighting the Klu Klux Klan or a chef with a frying pan but women and black people are a step too far.

Gotcha.

Ku Klux Klan? Haven't seen em. And yes oppressed peasants with household objects in this context is just funny. Like I said there is a line and I think it is perfectly drawn like it is. Adding females and people of color will add to the breaking of the immersion which I find a shitty choice. It has nothing to do with any form of racism as you tried to project on me. I respect all Triternions choices but that doesn't mean I can't voice my dissatisfaction.

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  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

@Deadmode said:

@Esselbink said:
Looks like I'm here to stay since the future female models can be toggled on and off. Whew.

Unfortunately, too late to hide your misogyny.

Fortunately I can't hide things that are not there. Typical sexist assumption. "He thinks females don't fit in the context of the game so he h8's whamen durr".

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  • 4
  • 11 Jun
 Esselbink

Jesus christ it's easy to bait some of y'all, edgy moral knights. How dare anyone oppose the almighty all-inclusiveness in games?! Adding females and people of color ruins the immersion for a lot of people. It already isn't that realistic and historically accurate but there is a line and I think that that line is already perfectly drawn. Might aswell add some pirates with wooden limbs next then.

35 20
  • 10 Jun
 Esselbink

Looks like I'm here to stay since the future female models can be toggled on and off. Whew.

35 20
  • 10 Jun
 Esselbink

If yall are adding female characters to this game I'm out.