Mordhau
 Frise
Knight
  • Likes received 3811
  • Date joined 16 Aug '16
  • Last seen 13 Jan

Private Message

Knight 1269 3811
  • 23 Jan '19
 Frise

@rob_owner said:
things like hitting someone, comboing, wanting to cftp to not get hit by someone in a 1vX, not being able to because of the forced combo no-parry-after-feint-recovery.

My proposed change wouldn't affect this situation, as right now, if you hit someone, you can cancel into parry even during release. That would override it.

Some serious introspection, like how effective would this new whiffer-mindgame be?? Why even risk it if youre probably just gonna get hit if you mess up for a non-guarantee reward of what? Hitting him instead because HE whiffed? Whiffer warz? Everyones swatting from far away, whiffhau, whiffer playstyle. Its a different game preference i reckon, not a detail i toiled around in my head for very long so i dont rightly care, im indifferent about this particular detail, up to the devs i reckon. Its marko's vision and all that.

I don't see how it would make a difference in playstyles. It's not like people would be super careful of not whiffing, they just would get punished for the occasional whiff, as they should. You don't need to play hyper defensively to not whiff. This is very exaggerated speculation.

In any case, this change should at least be tested. Testing it will be infinitely more useful than discussing it out of imagination. There is no better time than now to test core gameplay changes, because it's a closed alpha, and it's been two years since the alpha came out, with some issues like shields being boring, still unresolved. Doesn't make sense to speculate when we can just try it.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 2
  • 23 Jan '19
 Frise

@GIRUGIRU said:
U can just morph, if they gamble, accel, otherwise drag or feint

Misses are extremely punishing it's just a l2p issue

As always, Giru ignores everything that has been said and says it's a l2p issue, because who cares about improving the game

Literally everything that you said has been said and acknowledged in this same thread, what are you even trying to accomplish? You clearly don't care about discussing or improving the game

I mean come on Giru, you said days ago that stricter parries would be bad for new players, yet you're advocating for whiff punishing to be as unintuitive as possible. Imagine a new player's reaction when they see a whiff, start attacking even before their opponent's release, and still get parried. How will that make sense to new players? Attacking someone while they're clearly vulnerable is not the way to punish a whiff?

Common sense dictates that if you start an attack while someone else is already attacking and they whiff, you'd hit them. Common sense dictates that if you miss, you get punished with more than a slight stamina disadvantage and a chance to gamble. Why go against what's intuitive? If you were designing a game from scratch, would you purposefully make it so that whiffs can't be punished by just attacking while the opponent is literally missing?

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 23 Jan '19
 Frise

All of what Rob said would still happen if braindead whiffs like these didn't have an easy way out. Making whiffs less forgiving would just make braindead whiffs punishable, like any braindead action should be.

Look at these clips, I'm starting my attack super early, in the last one I even start the attack when Elige hasn't even gone into release. They should not be able to parry in that situation. I should not have to play mind-games to punish such a blatant whiff. I already footworked or matrixed out of their attack and took the risk of attacking while they're in release or before.

Are there still ways to punish them? Yes. Does it make sense design-wise? Absolutely no, those were blatant misses. It's ridiculous that they get to parry out of them so easily.

Essentially everything that Rob described is just having the initiative. You force a whiff, and you get rewarded with initiative and a slight spook. Not enough reward to take risky plays and encourage creative plays.

From a spectating point of view, spectators fucking love matrixes and other dodges, and it looks great when someone dodges something and gets a free hit. Even better when the dude that whiff manages to avoid the punish with some cool play, like dodging it back. It's instant gratification; You dodged an attack, you get to punish. However in the current state, you dodge an attack, you get initiative. Essentially, nothing interesting happens.

Making whiffs punishable will not remove interaction in the slightest, that's ridiculous. All of those interactions will still happen in slighter whiffs or intentional whiffs.

Essentially this reminds me of reverses in Chiv. Yes, there were ways to deal with them, and they added some depth/interaction to the game. However, were they good for the game? Would it not have been better to add that depth with an something intentionally designed to do so, instead of justifying design flaws?

Knight 1269 3811
  • 2
  • 22 Jan '19
 Frise

Currently CFTPs are so forgiving that if someone whiffs, they can block your punish even if you start your attack during their early release, or even during their windup in some cases, they can still parry for a slight stamina disadvantage.

Whiffing should be properly punishable, I don't think there's much to argue there. Right now you can attempt to punish and get parried, gaining a slight stamina advantage because of the FTP, or feint the punish and basically gaining nothing but initiative and a slight spook on your opponent. Gambling can ensue out of this, where someone whiffs and just comboes expecting you to feint the punish. Then you have to guess what they're going to do, because you can't wait for their input and then feint, the timing doesn't realistically allow for that. And if they just keep comboing and you guessed that they would parry, then you're the one being punished for trying to punish a whiff. Why should punishing a clear whiff be so unintuitive and unrewarding though?

I propose that the first 150ms (obviously just an example value) of a combo's windup should be un-feintable. You can still CFTP out of slight mistakes and spam comboes in teamfights without worries, but straight-up whiffs are punishable.

"But then there will be no interaction in whiff punishing where the whiffer gets to play mind-games"
Yes there will be; The whiffer can fake a whiff while staying at a safe distance and use footwork to stay out of the punish range, keep comboing, and punish the punisher's whiff.

As always, I must clarify, this is a game design issue, not a balance issue. Whiffs being unpunishable is unfun and discourages matrixing and dodges that everybody loves.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 17 Jan '19
 Frise

@yourcrippledson said:
If the nubs don't like high fov, they will move the slider to the left, and never think of it again.

I agree that the game should look good to everyone. Which is why it is important we have ample display options, so nobody is left forced to use an FoV they aren't totally comfortable with :)

It's not about them playing with high FoV, it's about them seeing videos of high-tier players playing with ridiculous FoV values and being turned away from the game. People are going to relate that to Chivalry and assume shit, like it always happens with Mordhau.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 16 Jan '19
 Frise

People that don't play the game and haven't played Chivalry are already complaining in comment sections of Youtube about the FoV being 'weird'. I do agree that the current FoV limit feels restricting, but we will have to live with that to avoid people getting scared off by awful FoV levels.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 16 Jan '19
 Frise

120 was always inferior to higher FoV values in Chivalry. Yes, some high-tier players used 120, but doesn't mean that 120 is on-par with higher FoVs. Those high-tier players stayed on low values not because it was optimal, but because it didn't look like shit/they were just used to it.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 15 Jan '19
 Frise

d.PNG

Knight 1269 3811
  • 31 Dec '18
 Frise

LOL! is the meme letter! B amirite gamers

Knight 1269 3811
  • 29 Nov '18
 Frise

@Hadeus said:
Seriously?

Yes, because non-combo weapons such as the Halber's alt mode further funnel the weapon into a specific role of dealing damage from distance in team games. It completely nullifies the weapon's ability to be used in duels or in risky attacks, and forces its user to use only to deal some easy damage in team modes.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 29 Nov '18
 Frise

@Hadeus said:
I'm arguing for taking the current short-grip away and replace it with the alt-grip (non-combo).

It would make it similar to the executioner sword, where there is not alt-grip.

Or just fix the Bardiche so that we have a medium-cost polearm instead of a gimmicky no-combo useless thing

Knight 1269 3811
  • 8 Nov '18
 Frise

This is all awesome stuff, but, if ya'll have the ability to implement climbing, ya'll could give us a new combat mechanic like a shove or weapon-unique specialty attack, you know, to spice the currently stale combat.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 7 Nov '18
 Frise

@Jax said:
The new swing arcs introduced a few patches ago fixed that for the most part.

joy.png

Knight 1269 3811
  • 3 Oct '18
 Frise

no but u see we balance it good next patch because u can kick them

Knight 1269 3811
  • 25 Sep '18
 Frise

@[email protected] said:
Hey, found a potential unintentional backswing in the game. Got a video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=664VajXGVdU&feature=youtu.be

Yes, turning around is an intended mechanic. That's not a backswing.

Knight 1269 3811
  • 12 Sep '18
 Frise

@Stouty said:
Why are you straw-manning me with side stabs when I was talking about waterfalls...

But there's also an argument to be made about having parries be reliable in chaotic team fights

Way easier to focus on aiming your parry when you don't have to read super powerful feints

and the relative ease of switching attack direction compared to switching where your parry is looking at

Kind of like the relative ease of pressing Q compared to reading feints

Knight 1269 3811
  • 1
  • 12 Sep '18
 Frise

@Stouty said:
just looks like he's hitting through parry

Hmmm if only there was a way to make sidehits viable without making them so exaggerated . . . I wonder hmm... If the parry box wasn't so huge, I wonder if you could then sidehit without making such exaggerated drags... Hmmmmm .... I wish somebody had adressed this multiple times in this thread so that poor Stouty could just read that hmmmm

What about the video I just posted Stouty would that have looked like a magic attack going through my parry? Or would it have looked like I got hit because I blocked in the wrong direction?

Knight 1269 3811
  • 12 Sep '18
 Frise

@Stouty you genuinely think anyone that doesn't play Chivalry finds that video impressive?

Knight 1269 3811
Knight 1269 3811
  • 12 Sep '18
 Frise

@GIRUGIRU said:

@Frise said:

Stab feints are near Chiv level in regards to readability though, I find bastard sword stab feints as unreadable as SoW feints.

chamber soft read + superior netcode + early release. Do not compare Chivalry feints to Mordhau feints - they're are not the same in terms of unreadability

Yes they are, stab feints are as unreadable as in Chiv. If you don't realise this you're delusional. The only reason they're not as strong as in Chiv is because of chambers, but balancing unreadable stabs with chambers is just stupid because it forces you to chamber every stab or have to read something that isn't readable. And then comes the bastard sword stab chamber gambles and all that annoying stuff.

nah it's a fact

wow u got me there

Gotta love those fake-accel feint headbutts.

Fixed in mordhau, can't spasm your head on a feint like you can in chiv

????????????????????????? u can and people do so all the time? the fuck u on about mate

If you're dying to noob feints you just need to learn to read. Genuinely a l2p issue - use Chiv pubs as an example

I'm not, I don't play against noobs because the only people here playing the alpha are chiv veterans. I was referring to new players fighting players with hundreds of hours, not thousands. Of course I'm not gonna fall for bad feints, because I got past the high wall that is learning to read them. Players with 400 hours in the game, though, won't be able to consistently read feints and so will constantly get hit by new players pressing one button.

  • Feints are easy to balance with several variables (feint recovery, feint window, windup time, chambers etc.) In comparison to swing manipulation which will forever favour high release time weapons

You're only thinking about delays.

No i'm thinking about feints as a whole

What mate I'm saying that release time doesn't affect side drags as much as it does delays you dense wall. I've been repeating this shit for a docen posts, sidehits can be balanced with the parry box, turncap, release animations, and you can even balance them more in depth if you want to with dynamic parries and shit. Are you seriously this dense man come on.

  • Feint read is visually impressive

To us chiv nerds, sure. To outsiders it just looks like a dude wiggling his sword around and the other dude doing nothing.

It amuses me you would say this when you're trying to propose to make swing manipulation (again) the main offensive tool. This statement alone shows your confusion, and lack of understanding of the game's mechanics

lol ok giru show a feint reading montage to anyone that doesn't know about mordhau or chivalry and ask them how impressive it looks