Mordhau
 nf_straydog
  • Likes received 18
  • Date joined 9 Jan
  • Last seen 5 Jun

Private Message

24 18

@smug, it sounds like your complaint is that the game doesn't have enough good players yet. I don't really feel like defense is in a terrible place. The defensive options seem pretty fine for dealing with offense. Most forms of offense are reactable, and things like morph-feint lose to kick. If you kick your opponent while they wave their sword at you (once is usually enough,) then they will stop going for fancy options and start going for regular drags/accels out of a desire to condition you to sit still. I don't really have a problem with this dynamic, it's present in every fighting game.

@GAYFISH I don't recall addressing anything you said or talking to you at all. I'm not sure how you think I misinterpreted your complaints, I didn't even read your complaints.

@both, the bit about IRL fencing was an anecdote, although IRL fencing and this game have plenty of similarities and similar principles, as do this game and fighting games, and fighting games and fencing. things like using fast options to beat options that require setup, conditioning your opponent to be passive, as well as elements of spacing and timing are universal to fighting games/1v1 games and sports like fencing. I used the anecdote about fencing as a comparison to show how faking the usage of fast options to force your opponent to commit instead of using slow/setup oriented options which are harder to properly defend against is consistent across various forms of combat game.

24 18

learning to deal with feints will come with experience. someday you will watch players wobble at you and just kick them in the balls. regular weapon feints are not very convincing unless it is from really fast weapons like the bastard sword.

my recommendations are to go to a duel server and practice chambering swings as much as you can. not only does chambering swings soft counter the [feinted swing > swing] tactic, but by practicing chambering, you force yourself to wait until the attack has almost connected, which will dramatically improve your ability to recognize feints.

another thing that chambering does is if you try to chamber and they morph instead, you can always cancel your chamber with a parry.

another another thing you can do is chamber feint, which not only blows low-mid level players the fuck out, but also is one of the safest and most flexible defensive options you can possibly do, as if they morph into a stab, you can also chamber that. it is pretty stamina costly.

and finally, if someone is a notorious wiggler, just start throwing kicks or stabs when you see them moving forward. it works all the time. also, many low-mid level players get caught offguard by kicks and will eat a followup stab because getting kicked at all just fries their synapses.

24 18

I'm confused, why do you want this changed? weapon clashes are cool and fun as is. 9 times out of 10 you can either target switch in frontline to get a free hit AND your primary target is stuck in the parry animation. or, you can get a free hit on your primary target if you accel because many people are not ready for clashes and the followup hits are blindingly fast, especially with the battle axe or longsword. or you just get into a clash war, which is fun and cool and most of the time someone ends up getting hit eventually. I think the mechanic is perfect as is.

24 18

offense SHOULD be much stronger than defense. being on the defense should feel bad, and your goal should always be to be finding ways to regain control of the fight and be on the offense, and when you're on the offense, working to stay on the offense and keep your opponent scared. why should defense be strong? why should you be rewarded with safety if you failed to take the initiative or lost control of the fight as soon as you found an opening but failed to properly capitalize? when defense is as strong as or stronger than offense, games become a staring contest because nobody wants to commit to aggressive options.

in fencing, the equivalent of morph feints is marching your opponent down, repeatedly changing lines and showing an intent to attack. my coach used to call this "running at your opponent with your elbow" (because oftentimes, people will repeatedly do high coupes with their blade pointed upwards,) and what my coach told us to do in situations like this was simply stop thrust your opponent. essentially what you would call a gamble, except it isn't really even much of a gamble because you can cancel the startup of your stop thrust with a parry if you see your opponent actually commit, which is also what you would do in fencing. the idea of using a stop thrust is that your opponent sees that you are trying to land a counterattack and think "oh, I have to commit to my attack now, otherwise I'm getting stabbed," and that gives you the option of abandoning your stop thrust to just parry their attack or retreat out of distance to make them fall short instead. essentially, you can use a fake stop thrust (or gamble) to force your opponent to commit.

24 18

I think I heard a rumor that the war axe was getting upgraded to be throwable. This made me think, what are some other cool changes that could be added to existing mechanics.

Shield bash:
It would be neat if having a shield replaced your kick with a shield bash. You would remain stationary as with the kick, but in addition to staggering shield users, if it clashed with a weapon you could knock it out of the way and start an attack straight after, but without giving the opponent the option of doing the same.

More knockdowns:
Knockdowns are neat and there should be a few more ways to achieve them imo. For example, kicking someone while they're out of stamina could knock down. Kicking someone down stairs could knock down. Kicking someone off a short ledge could knock down. Hitting someone's legs with a billhook or bearded axe could knock down. This would make fights more cinematic and dynamic. Also, by making the legs an appealing target, it would add more incentive to attack there, which would open up the possibility of jumping over leg sweeps as a defense.

Weapon perks:
Weapon specific perks, why not? For example, the billhook trip above could be a weapon perk. Another prime candidate would be a dagger backstab perk. Another possibility could be a haft strike perk for polearms which replaces their combo with a much faster but only lightly damaging haft strike.

Drawback perks:
Perks which nerf your character but add points to your build. For example, Fat. Your character is fat and has less stamina and slower stamina regen. +2 points. Frail, your character has 75 hp. +2 points. Etc.

I could probably think of a zillion things. I don't really know where this thread should go as it's more of just a for-fun dreaming thread and less of a real suggestion thread. Although I do think some of these could really add to the game. What do you think of these ideas and what are some pipe dream ideas you have?

24 18
  • 17 May
 nf_straydog

@Zherot said:

@nf_straydog said:
botas, did you know that you can kick against people using two handers too? it's actually pretty good, I do it all the time. 2h users can't parry kicks either.

Another falacy, kick was buffed to nerf shields, the range is still terrible vs a 2 handed loadout, the buff is only something a 2 handed build can consistently do to a shield user not the other way around.

the range is terrible but the speed is good. it's very strong against people who run at you feinting, and even though the followup isn't guaranteed, I find that I get followup stabs about 90% of the time just due to the sheer surprise

24 18
  • 17 May
 nf_straydog

botas, did you know that you can kick against people using two handers too? it's actually pretty good, I do it all the time. 2h users can't parry kicks either.

24 18
  • 14 May
 nf_straydog

@Lionheart, I'm surprised you aren't more down for my idea of making shields not rebound weapons if the timed block is missed seeing as how one of your biggest problems with shields seems to be how badly they disrupt 1vX, unless I'm thinking of someone else.

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

I used to play Unreal Tournament 2004 back in the day, and that game proved how amazingly rich, diverse and creative a game can become when users are allowed to create their own content. This game already has a dichotomy between official servers and player rented servers. It would be cool if, in addition to simply allowing players to own their own dedicated servers, you would allow these servers to host things like custom maps and mods. In UT2004, not only did people come up with things like new weapons and new maps, but there were also RPG mods which allowed you to have persistent characters that would gain experience and level up (I could see RPG Horde being pretty fun,) and even some crazy mods that added things that allowed you to build whole structures while playing board by board. The potential for this game would become nearly limitless. And for earning gold/xp or ranked/competitive play, you could always have "sanctioned" unmodded servers handle this.

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

agree wholeheartedly

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

@Pariah said:

@nf_straydog said:
Anyone got opinions on my suggestion?

Shields have "predators", almost anything with more range than their little 1h weapons can fucking wail on them pretty safely, just use your feet properly. Yeah it'll take a while if you can't land your drags, but even if you're just spamming directly at their shield, soon enough they'll be out of Stam and dead in the water.

Feints and morphs are integral to higher level play, so they won't be removed in the lifespan of the game.

Mordhau isn't a historical replica, so whether swords are realistically effective against armour is irrelevant.

removing feints was sarcasm. and I was talking about my actual suggestion, not the response to that guy's acerbic post.

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

I find frontline more fun to play if you don't obsess over winning the objectives and just fight the best you can. If your entire enjoyment of the game is wrapped up in winning, you are going to feel like shit in PUB games because most people just run towards the nearest enemy and try to kill them and don't even bother fighting towards the objectives. Instead of worrying about winning the game, I just try to play each stage of the game as best as I can and enjoy the fight whether I'm running over the enemies in a murder train or just trying my best to hold them off. To me, this is more fun than TDM, because it focuses combat in certain sections of the map which move along as one team starts to win. It also creates little side missions with your teammates to try to flank the main force and get a massive attack going. The maps need work, and we need more maps, but the gametype is still very fun for me.

I'm not surprised that someone with 2k hours in chivalry prefers chivalry. It's great that you like your game.

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

don't bother trying to convince this guy to buy the game. if he doesn't understand that having stuff like this significantly improves the game and makes it way more entertaining, and if he is literally going to cry and threaten to withhold his purchase because the developers won't literally remove fun from the game, he doesn't deserve to have it. the game has done incredibly well and doesn't need his purchase, or him as a player.

24 18
  • 13 May
 nf_straydog

Anyone got opinions on my suggestion?

24 18
  • 12 May
 nf_straydog

skirmishers WERE really strong, the mongolians conquered basically the whole continent with mounted archery. the problem with running away irl is that cavalry would run you down without a formation. the problem with allowing running away to be faster than chasing in a game is that it encourages running away as a prevalent tactic, and that makes for a very annoying game that is no longer about engaging and fighting, but about running away and plinking with arrows.

if your problem is that it's too hard to coordinate with teammates to move and protect engineers while they build emplacements, I agree. the lack of voice chat makes it very difficult to play strategically, frontline is very chaotic. that is not a problem with the chase mechanic, but the problem of trying to get 32 people to accomplish a task with no communication. making engineers run faster and be able to avoid ever being killed by melee would not solve that problem.

24 18

again, if you are getting caught out by melee, it is a problem of positional awareness, not of the chase mechanic. having no chase mechanic would allow one unarmored peasant to stall skirmish games indefinitely by outrunning everyone. running away is inherently passive and making passive options stronger than proactive options makes games very stale. why do you want to buff running away? the game is about engagement and combat. why should running away be a viable strategy? if you can't run to teammates, you are too far away from your teammates and probably trying to be rambo.

EDIT: the longbow still kills heavy armor in 2 headshots or 3 body shots, so I'm not sure what world you live in where heavy armor makes you unkillable by archers.

24 18

Shields were not just a passive barrier in medieval times, but also a way to aggressively bully your opponent by mashing your shield towards them and prevent them from having space to swing/thrust their weapon. Tbh, shields in Mordhau are nothing like shields in real life. For one thing, blocking with shields was not just a matter of holding the shield up and letting them hammer it, it was most often pressed towards the opponent to meet their strike before it could be fully unleashed. Letting someone hammer your shield is a good way to get a broken/dislocated arm or shoulder, especially with an axe or a hammer. Try holding a trash can lid up and letting someone swing at it with a mallet or a sledgehammer and see how fun that is for you. It would be much more effective to mash the lid towards them as they pulled back for the swing.

I think that the best way to balance shields would be to give them a little animation at the beginning of a parry in which they shove the shield forward, and this can be used to interrupt strikes identically to a weapon parry. If the block button is held after this, it still blocks the damage, but stamina is drained and the weapon swings through it as though it landed and allows for a combo. This would prevent shields from completely stopping offense and being totally immune to regular mixups, but it would give shield users a buffer of safety for the build points. Also if the opponent does go for a combo, it would give the shield user another chance to get a timed block. The main ideas behind this change are not allowing shields to simply ignore the timed block/feint mechanics while still allowing them to act as a defensive safety buffer, but I also think that it is a slightly more realistic implementation of shields.

EDIT:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Eclipse said:
So, what if blunt weapons dealt a small amount of damage to the shield user on block,

Why should that be desirable?

This would make blunt weapons a soft counter to shields,

Why do you want to play rock-paper-scissors?

A heavy blunt weapon is not something one would stand there and be pounded by, shield or not.

Are you implying that people would happily take hits from other weapons like swords all the time?

  1. shields need predators and have none. other loadout elements have predators, such as mauls being effective against heavy armor, bows tearing apart light armor, billhooks beating horses.
  2. good point, we should remove all rps elements such as feinting beating parrying
  3. people wearing armor pretty much didn't care about swords. swords were not used much in warfare once armored footsoldiers became prevalent and it wasn't just rich people wearing armor. spears and halberds were much more prevalent and swords were relegated to being sidearms or simply part of traditional dress. simply put, if he wasn't implying that, he easily could have and been correct.
24 18

<<delete post>>

24 18
  • 12 May
 nf_straydog

if you don't want to die as an archer you should position yourself better and stay near allies that can defend you instead of trying to be legolas. the chase mechanic is in to prevent things like exactly what you describe, archers and engineers being invincible to melee. the developers have never claimed that they want a game that is truly realistic, they wanted a realistic presentation and mechanics that are good for game health. sonic the hedgehog archers who run away faster than melee and turn around to fire arrows would not be good for game health.

24 18

Everyone knows that rapier and shield is a massive annoyance on the battlefield, but I think I have an elegant solution that doesn't destroy the playstyle. When someone selects rapier as their primary weapon, the moment they select any shield as a secondary, Triternion puts them on a mailing list that periodically sends them envelopes full of glitter and farts, disguised as important bills.

Thanks for your time.