Mordhau

Weapons Suggestions Megathread

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  • 21 Mar '17
 ColonelMustache

I'm all for more 'joke' weapons, though personally I hope all of them deal at least 1 HP of damage (I don't know what 'negligible' damage means, unless it just boils down to 'hitstun but no flinch'). That's plenty of time for two guys to practice sparring without murdering each other. I'm going to have a lot of fun with the improvised weapons - I hope the perk system comes with some reliable way to obtain them (which I guess wouldn't make them 'improvised' per se but still).

As for ranged weapons, I like the idea of a sling as a lower-tier one. The alternate fire (if ranged weapons even have those) could be to throw a rock by hand instead, which would have a faster rate of fire but weaker projectiles. Alternatively, there could be a bag of stones that serves a similar purpose.

Also, pressing alternate fire when the handcannon is unlit (again, assuming ranged weapons even have alt fire) should throw it or wield it as a melee weapon, since without ammu it's effectively a big unwieldy club, yeah?

Duke 5473 13074
  • 21 Mar '17
 Jax — Community Manager

Well by negligible I meant somewhere around 5 hp.

I don't think that ranged weapons should have alternate modes, it would be counterintuitive.

Sling would be sick as a low-cost ranged weapon. I could see it being a 2 point weapon (arming sword level) that doesn't require the ranged perk. It would be more or less shit in most instances and would be pretty fun due to that.

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Falchions.
Extremely fast, extremely good at cutting, but useless at defeating armour.

DSC07112.JPG

And no, they are not "swords who handle like axes". Sod off.

Also, messers. Big and small.

Awlpike.
15/16th century battle axe. Axe with spike on the other side of the head.

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Jax — Community Manager

I grouped falchions under 'cutting sword' in my OP.
If they were stupid fast they'd be op, to be honest.

These ones are dope

falchion-maciejowski-bible-13th-century_2

Duchess 6857 9820
  • 21 Mar '17
 Sir Zombie

Congratulations to Jax for being the first user to get a topic pinned.

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Monsteri

I feel like the thrusting sword would be better suited as just a skin for the arming sword. You already have so many types of swords that any more ends up as being just clutter. Dagger, shortsword, arming sword, bastard sword, longsword, messer, and greatsword, possibly even one category more.

The handgonne idea is pretty good, I like it. Previously I was opposed to any firearms as well, but horses kinda change that, and the idea for a fuse lit time is nice. The projectile should be unparriable though. I'm all for gameplay > realism, but on the plausibility scale it would be much more bonkers than backswings ever were. The fuse time is enough. Any throwable projectiles will counter the hand cannon, so one must use it only either on very distracted (or projectile-less) infantry or on horses, as is its primary function.

I feel like it would be pretty tense when you see the fuse lit up in group combat and suddenly you have a new primary objective if you want to survive. It could cause everyone to flee, it could end with the hand cannoneer needled with throwing axes, or it could become a chaotic mess where suddenly some people are running away, some are still fighting, and some are getting their throwables out, while some are making a run for the cannoneer. Meanwhile the poor guy was only aiming at a horseman charging from far away.

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Ranten

All is good and stuff, but you simply cannot Mordhau a Federschert. The edge is too thin and elastic to be used as a grip (Have fun animating/simply putting this in our character's huge hands).

I really like your ideas of anti-cavalry weaponry (even though I am gonna main cavalry smh). I wonder if your handgonne design can be used on horseback (Anti-cavalry cavalry?).

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Would also be pretty funny/to use in a cavalry vs cavalry scenario

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I really don't like the thrusting sword, it looks more of a skin for arming sword to me.

The thing I've already recommended myself was Grandfalchion that could be used as a peasant-class pickup weapon. Elwebbaro already approved

grandfalchion_1

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@Ranten said:

The thing I've already recommended myself was Grandfalchion that could be used as a peasant-class pickup weapon. Elwebbaro already approved

grandfalchion_1

There are no surviving examples of "grand" falchions like the one you linked that I know of.
I know, here I am again, raining on your parade, but what you linked is a steel bar made for Battle of the Nations, which does not have historical combat, it's a modern sport (A fun one, but...). You probably know that yourself, but I can't sit idly by when someone likes a shite blunt falchion made for rugby in armour.

The world-leading expert on single-edged medieval & renaissance weapons is on a crusade to fight the misconception of falchions as crude, heavy and unbalanced choppers, and the piece you linked looks like exactly that. If you need any evidence, I'll go ask James, or you could just believe me regarding that falchions are not cheapish peasantry axe-swords.

We DO have surviving grosse messer, so why not just use those instead of a made-up falchion?

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Zexis

Please no fucking guns

+1 for heavy / grand mace, just like a regular mace but longer, slower, heavier. Currently there seems to be a lack of large, heavy blunts, maybe on purpose

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@Zexis said:
Please no fucking guns

+1 for heavy / grand mace, just like a regular mace but longer, slower, heavier. Currently there seems to be a lack of large, heavy blunts, maybe on purpose

There simply weren't any oversized blunt weapons used in any period of the medieval time and even renaissance.
Weapons should not exceed a certain weight lest they become horribly unwieldy. Too heavy to carry around all day, or even all battle. Too slow to work, efficiently attack and defend with.

Pollaxes or polehammers are basicly the peak of melee weapon technology, and they're well balanced and nimble.
I think I've only seen truly two-handed maces and blunt weapons in India, and I'm not sure what year.

So the purpose of not including any of these is possibly to keep fantasy weapons at bay?

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Zexis

@ElricvonRabenfels said:

@Zexis said:
Please no fucking guns

+1 for heavy / grand mace, just like a regular mace but longer, slower, heavier. Currently there seems to be a lack of large, heavy blunts, maybe on purpose

So the purpose of not including any of these is possibly to keep fantasy weapons at bay?

good chance

but they look cool :[

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Sir Zombie

Sledgehammer in loadout when?

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Ranten

@ElricvonRabenfels said:
We DO have surviving grosse messer, so why not just use those instead of a made-up falchion?

Because this grandfalchion looks like a REALLY cheap self-made messer. And as I said, it is a peasant weapon that some PEASANT could've made himself. The weapon looks fun and even a Dev liked how it looked - and plus it really fits the enviroment (a poor village).

Mordhau is realistic, but completely inaccurate in historical aspect (for example armor pieces of completely different eras mixed in a single set, same for weapons) so I don't see why you try to keep to realism as much. Mordhau tries to be a fun competitive game, if you need 100% historical accuracy then this game might not be for you. The weapon looks fun and even a Dev liked how it looked - and plus it really fits the enviroment (a poor village) - so why not add it.

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@Ranten said:
Because this grandfalchion looks like a REALLY cheap self-made messer. And as I said, it is a peasant weapon that some PEASANT could've made himself. The weapon looks fun and even a Dev liked how it looked - and plus it really fits the enviroment (a poor village).

It's not easy to make a fully-functional blade. Shaping the steel into the shape you suggest requires skill, some experience and a bloody forge not everyone has access to. Creating a good edge was far more work than today, we have belt grinders, they did not. Then you need to temper your blade, or it's going to be useless, blunt after a single hit or break, and you need more forge equipment for that. Do it wrong, like the "peasant" you are, and your blade is going to end up brittle and just snap and break.

Even a simple looking weapon like that crude, and in my personal opinion incredibly ugly requires a lot of effort to make, especially without modern power tools. How would a "poor village" even have the equipment and craftsmen to know the first thing about making blades?...

And while the devs ultimately decide what is included in the game, and what is not, devs are not professionals of all fields. A dev can be an incredible artist or programmer, but not know the first thing about how real weapons handle or look. So just because a dev likes it does not make it good-looking or cool, which is subjective, I'll give you that.

Mordhau is realistic, but completely inaccurate in historical aspect (for example armor pieces of completely different eras mixed in a single set, same for weapons) so I don't see why you try to keep to realism as much. Mordhau tries to be a fun competitive game, if you need 100% historical accuracy then this game might not be for you. The weapon looks fun and even a Dev liked how it looked - and plus it really fits the enviroment (a poor village) - so why not add it.

First off, no, Mordhau ist not realistic. It's not realistic AT ALL. Example, NO game where you can cut through steel armour with swords cannot ever hope to be called realistic at all. It's possibly MORE realistic than other games, but still worlds removed from actual realism, which, ultimately, is good for gameplay, as most people would say. I suppose.

Ye, it's utterly innacurate regarding the historical aspect, since they want the player to choose from all the popular designs, both fantasy and realism, and create their very own character. It's not set in history, or a specific period, it's set in a fantasy universe. But it strives to create a cohesive, homogenous look and design, and many of it's pieces and parts are heavily inspired or directly copied from REAL, arms & armour, which existed, and were used in war and tourney.

I don't NEED 100% historical accuracy to enjoy a game, but with with all the players loving their fantasy armours and oversized weapons, their dirty stupid VOOOIIKIIIINGS, and promoting them to be in games like these, I stand firm and fight for what -I- love, which is realistic, historical equipment.

We have such an insane and wonderful amount of sources and originals from many periods of medieval and renaissance history, there is no NEED to make things up that most likely aren't pratical and simply wouldn't work. There are even crazy as fuck designs all through history...

fH2OlU6.jpg

I will do all I can to show the beauty, insanity and fascination of realistic arms & armour (and clothes, accessories) in ANY game that includes arms & armour and is not pure fantasy with large, spiked pauldrons.

I am here to counterbalance all the requests for what I consider "fantasy shite, which is probably cool-looking but impractical". That is why I keep discussing and arguing in favour or real gear, so that at least some of it may actually make it into the game - So people who know it can love and use it, or people who don't find out just how cool real designs can look.

As a owner and user of real arms & armour, museum grade replicas, and long-time martial artist (Both modern & HEMA), I can simply NOT stop always arguing in favour of realism and historical equipment.

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Jax — Community Manager

@Monsteri:
At the time of writing this, I didn't know that the Messer was its own separate weapon - due to that, the 'cutting sword' I mentioned is already in the game more or less - you could slap a falchion or szabla skin on it and it would be obvious what type of weapon it is. With that being said, having dagger/short sword/arming sword/messer/bastard/LS/GS/zwei, these weapons are either balanced between cut and thrust or favor strikes completely (messer). I think it would be beneficial to have a sword (and a 1h weapon in general) that focuses on thrusts primarily, and isn't a spear.
It comes down to the devs, if they feel it doesn't bloat the game, then great.

Perhaps the handgonne would have unparryable projectiles, but this could get frustrating. A potential middle ground could be that you can't parry it, but you can defeat it with a shield.

@Ranten:
Yeah, IRL that doesn't work but we're parrying arrows and regenerating health in Mordhau - I think that if you're trying to use the Feder to practice it would be a nice quality of life feature to have the mordhau grip, even if it wouldn't work IRL.
As for cavalry handcannoneers - oh god no, that would be cancer. You'd be able to light up the gun from a safe place and just do drive-by's on people with no real danger.

@ElricvonRabenfels:
To my understanding, there were two-handed warhammers that weren't lucerne-hammer length; to avoid confusion I was thinking a mace head stuck on a shaft suitable for use with two hands would be nice and serve the same purpose, as you'd know at a glance that it's not a polehammer and is instead a different weapon.

Also, on an unrelated note - what do you all think about caltrops not causing damage if the horse walks as opposed to run/sprints over them?

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Ranten

@ElricvonRabenfels said:
I can simply NOT stop always arguing in favour of realism and historical equipment.

Too bad 90% of Mordhau playerbase doesn't care about those things. I just don't understand why a simple believeable weapon cannot be in the game if the game is already unrealistic enough.

Realism =/= enjoyment so it has to be toned down a bit. Like come on, we are parrying arrows, regenerating health and cutting through metal in this game. If there is a cool design and a dev likes it it is worth nonetheless, the amount of specialists who care about such small things is so low compared to simple casual players. Bothering an already too-busy Dev team with this is doesn't sound like a good idea to me.

As for the grandfalchion, there are sickles, hoes and scythes in the village, so I am more than sure someone is capable of smithing/importing this shit.

Also, the Henry VIII's helm is pretty damn unpractical for combat - it was just a present to be used during parades and other official things.

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Smeelio

I saw a guy on youtube turn a steel bar from a hardware store into a crude working sword that was better than a midrange actual sword he bought once

Hey also maybe a woodcutting axe as a pick-up weapon? Probably pretty similar to one of the loadout combat axes but it would be cool to be a horror movie axe murderer instead of a viking

Double/battleaxe please

Also maybe a kind of repeating crossbow? Not sure how balanced they would be, but they were real, cool, and effective

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  • 21 Mar '17
 Jax — Community Manager

sorry but imo double axe is dumb, there's way more practical things you could have (poleaxe, halberd etc.)

repeating crossbow would be legit cancer and impossible to balance

And Ranten there's a difference between making farm implements and properly making and balancing a blade, you don't need distal taper or a proper cross section on a scythe for the most part. I'm not opposed to the peasant falchion per se, but when you start adding weapons that didn't exist, where do you draw the line?

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  • 22 Mar '17
 Byzantine

ARQUEBUS / MATCHLOCK MUSKET

Arquebus.jpg

  • Cost: 3 / 4
  • Use: Anti-knight & support, psychological warfare / intimidation
  • Damage: very high, blunt
  • Range: effective 30~50m / projectile itself just like longbow
  • Speed: internet explorer

The musket, despised by many, is difficult to balance. Perhaps the most controversial weapon ever to exist, if it should be implemented.

Suggested attributes:

Cons

  • Inaccurate
  • Gives away your position
  • Obscures vision after shot
  • Flinching
  • Player immobilized while loading and aiming
  • Misfires
  • Long loading time

Pros

  • Highest damage output of any ranged weapon
  • Due to blunt damage especially effective against plate armored opponents
  • Not chamber / parry-able
  • Intimidating

The shooter, in order to shoot this thing needs to do a tedious loading process which can take up to 30 seconds (which will prevent people from spamming bullets).

Matchlock loading procedure

  1. Load barrel with powder
  2. Put in a wad
  3. Place bullet on top of the barrel
  4. Take out the ramming stick
  5. Shove the bullet with the wad down the barrel
  6. Return the stick into the frame
  7. Sip some black powder into the pan
  8. Aim & Fire

In this time, he is immobilized. In order to move, he has to complete the loading process or cancel it. He also is immobilized while aiming and firing, due to the gun resting on the support, as illustrated here:

musketeer.gif

This makes him very vulnerable to cavalry charges and ambushes from men at arms.

When giving fire, there is a chance of the gun misfiring, which delays the shot. Also the pan igniting and the blast will make the shooter flinch, which will affect his aim. After the shot has been made, the blast and smoke will give away the position of the shooter, making him easy prey for enemy archers.

How much damage the weapons is going to make in order to be balanced, I'm not sure. With all these cons I would think that a one shot kill would be justified (at least on non-armored and lightly armored opponents), which won't be of much use, since the weapon's primary role is to defeat armor. How shields are going to affect the bullets, I don't know.. perhaps it should go through the shield with reduced damage to the user, get blocked by the shield or smack the shield out of the opponents' hand.

Inb4 autistic screeches