Mordhau

Imbalanced boring game?

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  • 1
  • 15 Apr
 Eldainss

I bought this game a few days ago.
And, i have already got so pissed off and angry that i have Alt + F4... and it took several hours, before i wanted to give the game another try.
THAT is very very very bad for first impression of a game!!!!!!!.

The weapons, and how they are used is EXTREMELY BORING.

2 handed weapons take 2 hours to swing. longer reach, much more dmg. very high possibility of 1 hit.
1 handed weapons take 2 hours to swing. short reach, weaker dmg. not even close to 1 hit.

The swing time is so extremely slow and boring, that i have time to cook dinner, and watch a movie before the swing reach the end.
It is completely retarded.

Also, 99% of the players seem to use 2 handed weapons.
After all, why use 1 handed, when they are weaker, shorter and have the same swing timer as 2 handed.

Shields... are useless... the developers clearly have no clue what so ever what a shield is.
(shield were and are, extremely useful and strong to use).

Ranged weapons... also extremely boring to use.
slow to use, low dmg, low range, slow projectiles... stupidly easy to block with weapon!!!!!...does not even need shield to block.

Only having one weapon type in the game that is effective.. 2 handed weapon... is extremely bad game design.
And i see that the game have been out about 1 year...
So why is this not fixed already when the solution is so obvious.

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  • 15 Apr
 esturias

You are right about one or two things. For the rest: What exactly would you change and why?

Knight 312 610
  • 15 Apr
 Duckalot

So here we see a prime example of someone who hasnt done any research of the game before buying it.
No its not by any means a realistic depiction of medieval combat. If you want that, i can recommend Kingdom come: Deliverance.

1 Handers are faster than 2 handers. Check their stat page. But you need to accelerate your attack if you want to beat your opponent in speed. The game is skill based and stats alone wont let you win.
1 Handers also cost alot less, thats why they are allowed to be weaker. And some of them can still 1 hit.

Swing time is as fast as it can get when taking ping into consideration. We've had faster attacks before, but that quickly turned into an unplayable mess thanks to ping. Watch some better players and see how quickly their attacks actually are.

2 handers are preferred because of their range. In a game where footwork is as important as it is in mordhau, of course you need a longer weapon to be usefull. (GENERALLY)
Most 1 handers are secondary weapons used when you drop your primary. The rest is perfectly capable of standing up against a 2 hander when paired with a parry shield.

Shields arent useless either. They are however not as broken as they were previously. Shields are still a good tool to use, tho they are more situational than primary 2 handers.

I agree, Ranged is boring to play. Waaay too easy to score kills.

It hasnt been "fixed" because people and the developers dont share your opinions.

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yeah people who get this game jump into conclusions wayyy to quickly before doing any research and not knowing what this game is about. this is not your typical sword slashing ai game where there are 2 swings with a campaign, it's a multiplayer with deep mechanics and an emphasis on skill. takes a lot of time to get good at it and its not always as easy as it looks in experienced hands.

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you're all here saying he jumps to conclusions even though he is spot on

  1. 2 handers ARE superior
  2. 1handers ARE inferior
  3. ranged weapons ARE slow to use, they ARE low damage and their projectiles DO travel slowly.
  4. shields ARE useless.
  5. 99% of players DO use 2 handers.
  6. having only one weapon type (2 handers) being viable IS extremely bad game design.

these are things people who have many hundreds or even thousands of hours in the game have been saying for a long time now, and you're sitting here saying he has no clue what he is talking about, like could you guys be any more blatantly obviously biased?

hey OP; quick question (and this is just to see if you are gonna answer what i THINK you will answer): What 2H weapon do you think is the strongest, as in the most imbalanced weapon?
looking forward to your reply.

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  • 15 Apr
 Kashi

@ZugZugNeverEnds said:
you're all here saying he jumps to conclusions even though he is spot on

  1. 2 handers ARE superior
  2. 1handers ARE inferior
  3. ranged weapons ARE slow to use, they ARE low damage and their projectiles DO travel slowly.
  4. shields ARE useless.
  5. 99% of players DO use 2 handers.
  6. having only one weapon type (2 handers) being viable IS extremely bad game design.

these are things people who have many hundreds or even thousands of hours in the game have been saying for a long time now, and you're sitting here saying he has no clue what he is talking about, like could you guys be any more blatantly obviously biased?

While 2 hander's are good they are not innately superior to all 1 handers

In fact some of the top tier weapons are 1 handed weapons

Arming sword bastard sword messer in 1h mode

Rapier can do work when paired with bucklers or targe but I'll admit it's not as good as the bastard sword

Falcion Warhammer and mace are also considered very strong

mace in particular because it performs like a 2 hander while being inexpensive aswell as twoshoting any class with its swings (1 shot vs t0 and t1 head)

The reason people mostly play 2 handers though is because of reach and there isnt all that much we can do to fix that preference

It just happens there are more 2 handers than 1 handers in the game

Let's consider more specific weapons being strong or bad in their own right

I.e longsword is pretty broken but that's because it got too good at everything over time

But bastard sword is also pretty broken in 1h mode because it's good speed mixed with it's hard to read mixups while being inexpensive

Of course this is in a duel perspective since you can focus one person instead of dealing with any number of opponents

When we shift to frontline and invasion longer reach becomes more important because of all kinds of factors you gotta deal with

On the subject of large shields , I'll admit they are a touch weak for duels and shield wall mode could be activated faster but what it offers is extremely strong in group fights

If you are in a riposte (shield wall or parry) your entire shield becomes active for block allowing you to cover an entire line of defense while attacking , especially good if you time it right you can land a hit the exact time you block a hit

On the subject of bows IMO the speed isnt all that bad the arrow speed also follows a realistic speed compared to reality it also encourages archers to get close to the fight so they dont camp so far back and be useless

Also ranged has the massive advantage of being able to throw damage while practically uncontested outside of other archers although I do think huntsman is a bullshit perk

So the low damage vs armor (not even that low because it's a support role anyway) is justified

Of course even if you have thousand of hours it doesnt automatically make your opinion right

I've seen guys who have over 1k hours in games be absolutely horrible at them and have arguably stupid opinions (like in fighting games wanting to remove all 50/50s despite it being a staple of the genre)

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  • 15 Apr
 Eldainss

@esturias said:
You are right about one or two things. For the rest: What exactly would you change and why?

People think that historical 2 hands were super heavy and super slow to use.
They were actually very speedy and agile to use.. NOT as fast as 1 handed, but still very fast and agile.

What i would change?
Possibly, most of the things below could be made into simple talents to be able to choose from.

*2 handed weapons overall would get faster swing speed... i would increase by 30 % or so, to see as start. (costly talent)

*1 handed weapons would get faster swing speed... i would start at 40 % increased speed, to start. (costly talent)

**Core fix: Swords are slightly faster (5%) than other weapon types. 2 handed and 1 handed.

**Core fix: Axes to cause slightly higher dmg,5% to all armor.

**Core fix: Maces would get 10% extra dmg against heavy.. 5% against medium, and -5% against soft armor.

**Core fix: Shields would have Hitpoints, and can be used raised for as long as you want, but drain stamina on hit, and can break.
(if the shield breaks while blocking, you get knocked down)...Shields are also immune to Arrow dmg.

*Stamina system i would change so that you get % longer swing speed the less stamina you have, up to half speed at 0 stamina.
(all and any use of weapon drain stamina, hit and miss... even shooting bow drain stamina).

*Bows would be faster to draw and shoot.(25%).. Could also be used to block melee attack, but if so, break on first hit. (costly talent)

*2 types of arrows... armor piercing and blunt...obvious how they would function..(possibly fire arrows)..ONLY ONE can be slotted.

*as LULZ, i would insert a special spiked glove, functioning as a weak dagger for fun melee, you could also block with the gloves but take small dmg every time you block...(i have seen many people boxing for lulz, i have used it too).

*Melee Fists would have significant faster swing speed... increase by 40 % to start.

*Arrows would get much faster travel speed... you can not block them with your weapon, only shields.

*Daggers would get ability to deal 4x dmg if hit in the back.

*Increase stack size on: Smoke bomb, Fire bomb, Trap, medic bag etc... 3 of each.

*Remove all the "refill crates" on maps, and instead give that as tool option for engineers.

*Remove the "huntsman talent"...archers are fragile as they are.

*Reduce effect on Blood lust by 50%...(it is not a vampire vs vampire game)...(possibly even removed completely).

To balance the archer (ranged), the talents needed for maximizing your output, would make so you can only use light armor.
(once you pick the "faster aim and shoot" talent.. heavy and medium armor type gets locked, and can not be used).

*I would add a new feature map... Peasant uprising...crossroads seem like a decent base map, the peasants are destroying, and the knights are sent out to deal with them.
33 peasants vs 13 knights.

I am not sure how they do with HP on your character in this game.
But i would have it on armor for simplifying things... heavier armor = more hp.
It would make the code simpler and easier to tweak.
ex: heavy armor give +50 hp / armor slot... so max extra 150 HP. if in full heavy armor.
So if your base is 100, in full heavy armor you get 250 hp.
(i think you get the idea).

*I would also have increased skill point system... by how many points, not sure, depends on how much of the above would be added talents and not core fixes.

These quick changes, would open up far more play styles than just having 99 % clones with 2 handed and armor.

This above is just a quick ideas that came... i can find more if i want.
Like customizing the weapons, and how you can unlock parts that give different extra dmg/armor/speed, etc etc.

2017 2104

@^--^ Maximus ^--^ said:
it's a multiplayer with deep mechanics and an emphasis on skill. takes a lot of time to get good at it and its not always as easy as it looks in experienced hands.

Is it? I see neither deep mechanics nor an emphasis on skill at the moment. The emphasis of skill can only be a result of self-imposed limitations. The game itself doesn't require it at all.

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  • 16 Apr
 esturias

@SWSeriousMike said:

@^--^ Maximus ^--^ said:
it's a multiplayer with deep mechanics and an emphasis on skill. takes a lot of time to get good at it and its not always as easy as it looks in experienced hands.

Is it? I see neither deep mechanics nor an emphasis on skill at the moment. The emphasis of skill can only be a result of self-imposed limitations. The game itself doesn't require it at all.

Maximus voiced the average fanboy standpoint, about what the game is supposed to be but can't fulfil in the slightest, while you took the position of the exaggerating whiner, who strips the game of... well... everything.
Neither of you is correct, obviously.

The game does have some "deep mechanics", but aside the few melee mechanics, that "deep" turns into "derp". Wherever you look, the rest of the game is just half-assed.
And that "emphasis on skill" is hard to uphold when you have a gamebalance with that many blatant issues. It sure does require skill to be good - hell, it even does require skill to properly swing a Maul - but with that balance and as long as you see most high-level players simply running around with the most lowbob builds to pad stats, you can hardly attest this game an "emphasis on skill".

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This guy might be new and I'm sure someone already said: "hey, ur new, stfu!"
But he has a good understanding of balance unlike most the people on these forums, admin team, and he'd just do fine as lead designer, you should attempt to hire him.
Pretty sure most of you live in denial and the guy is 100% right.
Spiked gloves next patch?

@Eldainss said:
Increase stack size on: Smoke bomb, Fire bomb, Trap, medic bag etc... 3 of each.Remove all the "refill crates" on maps, and instead give that as tool option for engineers.

This is pretty much the only thing I disagree with you on. Fire bombs are already a problem. Traps are fine. Take 2 traps or 2 bombs in loadout. Also Engineers shouldn't be necessary for ammo refill.

@Eldainss said:

*Remove the "huntsman talent"...archers are fragile as they are.

*Reduce effect on Blood lust by 50%...(it is not a vampire vs vampire game)...(possibly even removed completely).

I'll sign that. Bloodlust has been stupid, since I first read the description. You don't need a PhD in game design to figure out this perk is broken. One of the first things I compained about in these forums and one of the topic I like getting back to.
To me it would have been a good perk for horde or any PVE hack n slay game.
In PvP however, it just increases the skill gap unneccessarily and ruins the game for new players.
I'm pretty sure new players could get way more kills, if there was no such thing as bloodlust.
People, whose sole strategy is to get as close to the enemy spawn as they can and keep as many of them busy as possible, will have a harder time without bloolust and would really need to play smarter.
Right now this game in FL is just about who can lock down the spawns more efficiently wtihout giving the enemy room to breathe.

Instead of fixing the game, they are throwing crotches and plasters at it, for example they removed the hitstop just to reintroduce it, they completely ruined (2 of the) shields, and ignoring any advice that comes out of the forums.

I think some of the developers have a rather short attention span and prefer to scroll through the meme feed on reddit, rather than searching the forums for ways to improve the game.

To me the Game felt like a very linear COD campaign that pooped out a multiplayer mode without much effort put into balancing actual things.

2017 2104

@Duckalot said:
I agree, Ranged is boring to play. Waaay too easy to score kills.

The only easy ranged kills are archers. Everything counters archers. Smoke bombs, cavalry, heavy armor, high movement speed, every weapon that takes one or two hits to kill a person in light or no armor, archers.

Do you really think it is harder to get kills with the maul, zweihander, halberd, spear, javelin, longsword, greatsword, battle axe, war axe, evening star, catapult, messer, ... than it is with bows?

Archery is only strong in skirmish. This is the very first feature listed on the store page:
"Massive battles: From small-scale engagements to 64-player all-out war in modes such as Frontline and Battle Royale."

So why the hell is this game balanced around skirmish? It might not be illegal but it's morally rotten.

It hasnt been "fixed" because people and the developers dont share your opinions.

Reducing this to opinions is doing everyone a disservice. You can always go with the intellectually flawed counter of "I know someone that disagrees with you". Is that really who you want to be? Is this the height of your ambition? Do you refuse to hold your friends' feet to the fire? Do you really think blindly denying the issues is doing them a service?

You could have stopped after your first paragraph and would have made a totally reasonable point. But instead you let your post degenerate into tribalism. Why would you do that? You are not stupid. You don't have to be a boot licker.

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  • 16 Apr
 Bernat656

Go play minecraft :D

Jesus why people spend money on things what they dont know about????
I cant imagine why someone buy a game without reaserch...

Mordhau is works like this.
It always does. We like it.

But bring back the 64 players we dont like that feature! :D

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Do you always read the whole wiki before buying a game or are 5-10 minute videos of people pretending to have fun enough to convince you?

1697 1291
  • 16 Apr
 esturias

@Duckalot said:
I agree, Ranged is boring to play. Waaay too easy to score kills.

Now that comment about "easy kills" got a bit ironic after I saw you ingame... :P

@Eldainss said:
2 handed weapons overall would get faster swing speed... i would increase by 30 % or so, to see as start. (costly talent)1 handed weapons would get faster swing speed... i would start at 40 % increased speed, to start. (costly talent)
Core fix: Swords are slightly faster (5%) than other weapon types. 2 handed and 1 handed.Core fix: Axes to cause slightly higher dmg,5% to all armor.
**Core fix: Maces would get 10% extra dmg against heavy.. 5% against medium, and -5% against soft armor.

Weapons in general already do way too much damage and making them even faster would break the entire game. Apart from that, you'd need faster parries and all that, too.

Core fix: Shields would have Hitpoints, and can be used raised for as long as you want, but drain stamina on hit, and can break.
(if the shield breaks while blocking, you get knocked down)...Shields are also immune to Arrow dmg.

Giving shields hitpoints got suggested many times and I'd love to see that. Would finally make shields interesting.

Bows would be faster to draw and shoot.(25%).. Could also be used to block melee attack, but if so, break on first hit. (costly talent)2 types of arrows... armor piercing and blunt...obvious how they would function..(possibly fire arrows)..ONLY ONE can be slotted.

Bows should be able to parry attacks, but dropped after the first hit. Faster arrows would be nice, too.
Different quivers to equip (piercing tips, poison, whatever) would bring some variation, too.

Remove the "huntsman talent"...archers are fragile as they are.Reduce effect on Blood lust by 50%...(it is not a vampire vs vampire game)...(possibly even removed completely).

They both need to get removed. Horribly stupid perks, indeed.

*Melee Fists would have significant faster swing speed... increase by 40 % to start.

Fists are quite fast already and you can cause quite some damage in desperate situations.

*Remove all the "refill crates" on maps, and instead give that as tool option for engineers.

That wouldn't work, as that would always require active builders. But there should be an ammo bag similar to the medipacks.