Mordhau

Shields: The Final Solution: For Real This Time: Buff Shield Active Parry: Please

1321 2008

I don't really see shields now unless it's to hide animations on an already cheesy weapon or for part of Roman cosplay. Some noobs and casuals here and there but a shield is now pretty rare and I don't see other high leveled players using them.

My biggest problem with shield right now is that they are NOT "beasts in team fights" as was promised. The active parry on the shield box almost never works. It's a surprise when it does work because I forget it even exists... and I main shield pretty much every second or third match.

The shield animation blocks my view of enemy gambles/snipes when I'm about to riposte and their stabs go right through the shield... and do not get blocked. I position my opponents that I know I can't hit onto my left so they hit the shield and I hit my opponents to the right but ofcourse, this has NEVER, in all the times I've intentionally tried it, worked to block attacks from the left.

Please give shields a massively buffed active parry so that they are beasts in team fights. Something that blocks most attacks during the start to the middle of riposte but allows enemies to use range to snipe at the end part of the riposte or to flank/back stab.

Active parry in general needs to be fixed too. Too many back parries/chambers.

I also think shields should have no bonus held time. This is pure cheese in duels. Noobs don't have problems with drags anyways, they have problems with feints... any one can feint a noob, even a noob. But only the intermediate players can drag.

Sellsword 10 2
  • 9 Feb
 Cody1750

The stamina drain negation on Active parry shields really sucks. I hate that I'm encouraged to just throw it on my back to stand a better chance in a fight.

1321 2008

@Cody1750 said:
The stamina drain negation on Active parry shields really sucks. I hate that I'm encouraged to just throw it on my back to stand a better chance in a fight.

I want a stamina buff for shields, too. But I don't think it would be balanced if they got a stamina buff and kept the increased held block time.

I doubt they will remove the held block time though, because people have this retarded notion that shields should be for noobs... as opposed to tools for all leveled players that bring one handers up to parr with two handers.

But yes, if the extra held time goes, shields deserve a stamina buff so my 6 points spent on BastardSword/Shield are on parr with the 6 points spent on a poleaxe in a duel.

166 210
  • 9 Feb
 Quenquent

Or they could also increase the cost of held shields (are we speaking about held shields only ?) by 1 and have their stam negation not being bad, alongside better mechanics for held mode (less time to pull it up/down but the extreme stam negation buff is delayed).

Shield are so close to being balanced. It's all about numbers now.

Count 334 344

delete shields, it's for cowards anyway.

Problem solved

1399 1054
  • 9 Feb
 esturias

@✵ Legate Lanius ✵ said:
delete shields, it's for cowards anyway.

Problem solved

Judging by that logic, we should delete all weapons and items all together and go back to 1vs1 with bare fists.
"You want to conquer this flag? Back into the line, wait for a defender to spawn! Peh... that guy just wanted to attack that other defender who already is in a duel. Attacking coward!"

Count 334 344

@esturias said:

@✵ Legate Lanius ✵ said:
delete shields, it's for cowards anyway.

Problem solved

Judging by that logic, we should delete all weapons and items all together and go back to 1vs1 with bare fists.
"You want to conquer this flag? Back into the line, wait for a defender to spawn! Peh... that guy just wanted to attack that other defender who already is in a duel. Attacking coward!"

That's the point, delete 'em all !

677 287

I have to say, I play with the buckler today and it's pretty strong. Now the heater shield and kite shield probably suck, haven't played them much since nerf. It's all buckler and targe now.
I understand why they nerfed held block, however the solution is not satisfying.
I also wish the timed block for shields would be a bit longer than blocks for a regular weapon.

1321 2008

@PC_Principal said:
I have to say, I play with the buckler today and it's pretty strong. Now the heater shield and kite shield probably suck, haven't played them much since nerf. It's all buckler and targe now.
I understand why they nerfed held block, however the solution is not satisfying.
I also wish the timed block for shields would be a bit longer than blocks for a regular weapon.

The parry for heavy shields IS longer than a regular block BUT it isn't very noticeable outside of a high level duel... so a noob may have a slight buff against drags but he's just as fucked against the feint button, like any other noob. And it's feints noobs hate, they don't even know what a drag is.

The difference is very noticeable though, when you switch from playing with shields to no shield, the bonus time makes players sloppy and does the opposite of training players against drags... in the long run, they become dependent on the crutch at best. At worst, players like me get to cheese through high level duels with the bonus block time and a one handed messer.

Buckler/targe is still pretty rare but is more popular than heavy shields because they get to be thrown for the ultimate meme.

677 287

The meme shields are dead, they only do 25 damage now which is good. Buckler is a beast stamina wise and the other shields are probably just bad now.

57 47
  • 1
  • 11 Feb
 123mop

The riposte blocking effect on shields is huge, to the point that it's now difficult for me to 1vX without it because it's such a big benefit. Learn how to use it properly and you'll understand. It's slightly more effective on the heater and kite because they're larger compared to the targe and buckler.

Riot shield mode is niche but sometimes very handy. Many people, even some very skilled players, don't know how to fight against it and you'll get free hits as a result. It could definitely use some work though. In particular, teamhits should not take you out of riot shield mode. The feature is worth the worse stamina drain negation, but is not useful in every situation.

I think the buckler and targe should be swapped, given just how beneficial larger shield size is now. Targe should have better stamina drain and cost 3 points while buckler should cost 2 and have less.

166 210
  • 11 Feb
 Quenquent

All shields have the same parry box. The exception is when you aren't parrying with them and getting shot at by arrows.

57 47
  • 11 Feb
 123mop

@Quenquent said:
All shields have the same parry box. The exception is when you aren't parrying with them and getting shot at by arrows.

Pretty sure this isn't correct, as they have different values in the in game stats, and I believe the values also describe an extension from the shield model.

Regardless, I was talking about the size for intercepting incoming attacks during a riposte. The shield model is precisely what you use for your hyperclash, in the same way that your exact weapon model is used for determining clashes.

I'll try to put up a video this evening demonstrating what I'm talking about, and blocking multiple enemy attacks using the shield riposte clash effect.

1321 2008

@123mop said:

@Quenquent said:
All shields have the same parry box. The exception is when you aren't parrying with them and getting shot at by arrows.

Pretty sure this isn't correct, as they have different values in the in game stats, and I believe the values also describe an extension from the shield model.

Regardless, I was talking about the size for intercepting incoming attacks during a riposte. The shield model is precisely what you use for your hyperclash, in the same way that your exact weapon model is used for determining clashes.

I'll try to put up a video this evening demonstrating what I'm talking about, and blocking multiple enemy attacks using the shield riposte clash effect.

I don't find it happening to me even when I intentionally orient myself to intercept attacks. And it doesn't help that where the shield is on your screen doesn't portray where your shield actually is. Also, the beginning of a riposte animation the shield is still in front of you, bloking your view of what your enemies are doing.

So you don't know whether you should double parry until you've already been hit... and the attacks just go right through the shield thats glued to your face during riposte windup.

Shield clash is a gimmick that should be buffed or removed for an actual active parry.

Active parry in general needs to be touched up too, alot of back parries/chambers.

57 47
  • 13 Feb
 123mop

Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Practice against AI in 3rd person, start with just using the riot shield mode and intercepting attacks with that as you attack out of riposte.

It'd be great if left side attacks didn't use the Hollywood school of shield training though, throwing the shield behind your back. It feels pretty bad to use any left side ripostes with a shield in 1vX because of it.

The shield not visually being in the same location in 1st vs 3rd person is definitely an issue though.

I also wouldn't be opposed to attacks that hit through the shield model at any time dealing reduced damage as well. Although it wouldn't be the most interesting place to tie up their power budget from a gameplay perspective.

1321 2008

@123mop said:
Just because you don't know how to do it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Practice against AI in 3rd person, start with just using the riot shield mode and intercepting attacks with that as you attack out of riposte.

It'd be great if left side attacks didn't use the Hollywood school of shield training though, throwing the shield behind your back. It feels pretty bad to use any left side ripostes with a shield in 1vX because of it.

The shield not visually being in the same location in 1st vs 3rd person is definitely an issue though.

I also wouldn't be opposed to attacks that hit through the shield model at any time dealing reduced damage as well. Although it wouldn't be the most interesting place to tie up their power budget from a gameplay perspective.

What's wrong with an actual active parry? Even if the shield gimmick did work, then people would just aim gambles at your face, where they should be aiming anyways.

It's a gimmick, a gamble, 5/95 chance of working in a riposte, except you don't have a clue whether your opponents are gambling you because the shield itself blocks your vision and you don't always know to double parry.It's all a gamble even if it did work... because your enemies would just aim for your legs/face while strafing to your side.

It's simple math, a one hander doesn't have the swing time to hit the 5 people readying polearms in front of the shielder, even if you hit 4 of them, one of them got to hit you and perhaps the other ones outright trade hit you during windup. Even if none hit you, your one hander has to hit them all several more times where many fast weapons will 2htk full armor in this game.

And I haven't even started mentioned the odds blunt one handers face in 1vX.

Please give shields an actual boosted active parry that would still allow room for range snipes and flank hits. 1vX with shields is still worse than without one if you can read basic drags.

1321 2008

How many final solutions is this shit gonna take?

1823 1910

@123mop said:
Pretty sure this isn't correct, as they have different values in the in game stats, and I believe the values also describe an extension from the shield model.

Pretty sure a dev mentioned that those values don't serve a purpose anymore. I don't know whether that's still correct but that is the nature of hidden properties, isn't it? Can't trust anything that you haven't tested yourself recently anymore.

166 210
  • 14 Feb
 Quenquent

@SWSeriousMike said:

@123mop said:
Pretty sure this isn't correct, as they have different values in the in game stats, and I believe the values also describe an extension from the shield model.

Pretty sure a dev mentioned that those values don't serve a purpose anymore. I don't know whether that's still correct but that is the nature of hidden properties, isn't it? Can't trust anything that you haven't tested yourself recently anymore.

It was Crush.

Block radius values in the armory has been removed the next update.

57 47
  • 17 Feb
 123mop

What's wrong with an actual active parry?

It's a gimmick, a gamble, 5/95 chance of working in a riposte

I literally use it all the time with great success. Once again, your inability to do it does not mean it is impossible. Did you try practicing with bots?

It's simple math, a one hander doesn't have the swing time to hit the 5 people

You don't need to hit 5 people. That's the point. You can deflect multiple incoming attacks during your riposte. Without a shield properly timed attacks from 5 enemies would never allow you a chance to counterattack without it being a hit trade.

Also if you're surrounded by 5 people you're going to need more than parrying and riposting to win that fight.