Mordhau

Shields feedback after 16, at least playable, but nerfed to the ridiculous point

9 1

So shields are at least playable, but nerfed to ludicrous state. My suggestion how to unnerf block held shields:

1) Make defensive stance on/off timings much faster, this is ridiculous completelly unjustified nerf. It slows down movement too much, allow opponents to catch you when changing stance, while its totally unjustified as first stage of starting to hold a block and normal shield parry are very similar - its almost the same movement of shield and hand. Shield parry is not like a weapon parry.
2) Consider making parrying with shields easier, e.g. by having longer window, this way it will be also more natural to block multiple strikes with some delay one from each other
3) Shield parry should have always very high stamina drain reduction (as opposed to held block in which hits should deplet stamina fast)

To summarize. You seem not to remember that the game is not in beta state, its officially released game. You cannot release stupid stuff, just to fix it in next patch. Start being professional, not excercising bigt amount of game developing amateurship.

Also suggestion about scoring - since block holding now is a unique shield role and comes with such an effort, consider giving points to a player for every shield blow he receives. Perhaps with some min time interval to avoid exploits.

1263 1942

As a shield user.

I couldn't disagree more with all 3 of your points.

I think shield needs to have the same parry window as a regular parry. Because it now parries and such things should be the same across the board. Shields should not be noob crutches, but tools for players of all levels. You don't learn about drags by being hardened against them... and have you seen high level duels with Bastard sword?

God they're so disgusting, I could only imagine how much cancerous it would be with Bastard sword, medium armor, second wind and a shield that even slightly buffers drags. Look up Stouty's last tournament upload for total body cancer.

I think shields should have better stam negation than a one hander alone and should be equal or almost equal to a two handers stam negation. A shield has to be worth the points after all.

I also think shields need a better active parry or whatever. The latest gimick they added is lack luster and rarely seems to work. It feel like a surprise when it does. If it stays it should work on more than just ripostes but on combos and maybe on all attacks too.

115 137

@Coffinmaker said:
1) Make defensive stance on/off timings much faster, this is ridiculous completelly unjustified nerf. It slows down movement too much, allow opponents to catch you when changing stance, while its totally unjustified as first stage of starting to hold a block and normal shield parry are very similar - its almost the same movement of shield and hand. Shield parry is not like a weapon parry.

Even if I'm part of the people that agree the delay it takes for shield to go in held mode is too high, I believe it is absolutely justified. Imagine being able, in duels, to deny slower attacks by switching to held mode AND with an insane stamina negation. Shields being able to deny drags/feints/morphs is the reason they were reworked in the first place, and the slowed movement is to prevent easy dodge and even more abuse in duels.

But I agree right now, the delay is too long. I suggested before to have the time it takes to hold R to go in held mode be reduced, the delay to be reduced but to have the increase stam negation to only be applied after a small delay.

@Coffinmaker said:
2) Consider making parrying with shields easier, e.g. by having longer window, this way it will be also more natural to block multiple strikes with some delay one from each other

It's... already the case. It's part of Patch 16's changes. It's only 50ms but that's enough for me. Otherwise they will get better than parry shields in this domain and deny drags without efforts.

@Coffinmaker said:
3) Shield parry should have always very high stamina drain reduction (as opposed to held block in which hits should deplet stamina fast)

Stamina negation was part of the problem with held shields : put it too low and it's simply better to take a one-handed, too high and parry shields becomes an inferior option. But if you give low stam negation on held block, you will deny the main reason to use it : be a goddamn shield wall.

I honestly think their parry stam negation should be at 12/13, that way you can use most, if not all, of the one-handed with shields without getting screwed parry-negation wise, but I understand it would make them stronger compared to parry shields. For me, held shield should be overall better than parry shields, but cost more points.

@Coffinmaker said:
To summarize. You seem not to remember that the game is not in beta state, its officially released game. You cannot release stupid stuff, just to fix it in next patch. Start being professional, not excercising bigt amount of game developing amateurship.

Then start thinking about what you are suggesting instead of having obvious mistakes in your suggestions.

Rant aside, I understand why you get impatient, just like many held shield users here. It took Triterion quite some time to actually find a decent way to implement held shields. But I do think Triterion are improving in their development and allow themselves to do risky moves, despite the playerbase's reaction (see no-more stop on teammate hit change). On top of that, they are more serious than other companies regarding balance and bug fixes coughChivalrycough.

@Coffinmaker said:
Also suggestion about scoring - since block holding now is a unique shield role and comes with such an effort, consider giving points to a player for every shield blow he receives. Perhaps with some min time interval to avoid exploits.

No. The reason to use held mode should be because it's good. That you get assist points when teammates kill someone you were blocking, why not. But farming points shouldn't be the reason to use held mode.

2406 4883
  • 13 Jan
 Maci

@Coffinmaker said:
So shields are at least playable, but nerfed to ludicrous state. My suggestion how to unnerf block held shields:

1) Make defensive stance on/off timings much faster, this is ridiculous completelly unjustified nerf. It slows down movement too much, allow opponents to catch you when changing stance, while its totally unjustified as first stage of starting to hold a block and normal shield parry are very similar - its almost the same movement of shield and hand. Shield parry is not like a weapon parry.
2) Consider making parrying with shields easier, e.g. by having longer window, this way it will be also more natural to block multiple strikes with some delay one from each other
3) Shield parry should have always very high stamina drain reduction (as opposed to held block in which hits should deplet stamina fast)

To summarize. You seem not to remember that the game is not in beta state, its officially released game. You cannot release stupid stuff, just to fix it in next patch. Start being professional, not excercising bigt amount of game developing amateurship.

Also suggestion about scoring - since block holding now is a unique shield role and comes with such an effort, consider giving points to a player for every shield blow he receives. Perhaps with some min time interval to avoid exploits.

Wrong

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
As a shield user.

I couldn't disagree more with all 3 of your points.

I think shield needs to have the same parry window as a regular parry. Because it now parries and such things should be the same across the board. Shields should not be noob crutches, but tools for players of all levels. You don't learn about drags by being hardened against them... and have you seen high level duels with Bastard sword?

God they're so disgusting, I could only imagine how much cancerous it would be with Bastard sword, medium armor, second wind and a shield that even slightly buffers drags. Look up Stouty's last tournament upload for total body cancer.

I think shields should have better stam negation than a one hander alone and should be equal or almost equal to a two handers stam negation. A shield has to be worth the points after all.

I also think shields need a better active parry or whatever. The latest gimick they added is lack luster and rarely seems to work. It feel like a surprise when it does. If it stays it should work on more than just ripostes but on combos and maybe on all attacks too.

Correct

Thanks for reading my input

51 26

Why can't the kick be replaced with a shield bash if you have a shield equipped?

9 1

If shield parry has 50ms longer window then its indeed significant, maybe not a lot, but still actually i noticed that in game before reading the replies here.

Also from #16 changelog

Shield wall now has a longer raising/lowering delay to prevent abuse in duels

But in frontline its pure nonsense. Ok, some delay should be present, so that it requires more skill, but just low. If enemies charge at you you and there is opportunity to hold them by shield wall, usually you don't have much time to react.

1762 1828

@LaughingRaven said:
Why can't the kick be replaced with a shield bash if you have a shield equipped?

What would be the benefit gameplay-wise?

115 137

@SWSeriousMike said:

@LaughingRaven said:
Why can't the kick be replaced with a shield bash if you have a shield equipped?

What would be the benefit gameplay-wise?

To be somewhat aggressive when in held mode and defend yourself. Right now, you are a sitting duck if you are getting attacked, and forced to turtling unless you riposte, which takes you out of held mode, the opposite of your goal. Even if it only interrupted attacks, I would take shield bash over riposte in held mode any day.

I understand you answered "What would be the benefit gameplay-wise?" to call out his random suggestion without reason, and I do call people out on that too, but here it might work for something.