Mordhau

When will cleaver's damage be nerfed?

1247 1912

The kitchen knife should do 20 damage to T3 torso. And that is pretty generous considering it is literally a kitchen knife.

It should still two shot light armor, T2 helmet and maybe one shot naked head.

This way it has a role as the one point weapon to fight naked/light armor that's the hardest to read and can do crazy drags... while the dagger has the role of damaging armor best while being the most predictable, shortest and easiest to counter... and short sword being the middle ground between them.

Cleaver should not be the weapon everyone grabs to fight 3 people at once with full perks and armor. Cleaver should not be the preferred bloodlust weapon after war axe. A kitchen knife should not do more damage to armor than a much heavier bastard sword or arming sword.

5 2
  • 11 Jan
 GhostHippie

I kinda agree with this

117 115
  • 11 Jan
 The Bird

The Bird believes this reasoning to be quite sound. The Bird bids thee nerf this filthy tool of Bird execution immediately.

Bird

Beak

GetPekt

FeatherOfApproval

1226 893
  • 1
  • 11 Jan
 esturias

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
It should still two shot light armor, T2 helmet and maybe one shot naked head.

This way it has a role as the one point weapon to fight naked/light armor that's the hardest to read and can do crazy drags...

Even that is too much. It's a stupid kitchen knife that doesn't even have a pointy end to stab people. It shouldn't be the preferred option above a dagger - or any other weapon.

Count 274 314

Literally had a guy LMB his way to victory haha

It’s very fast with high damage, reach isn’t much of an issue when you have low armor and max speed

Knight 5259 7075

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
The kitchen knife should do 20 damage to T3 torso. And that is pretty generous considering it is literally a kitchen knife.

It should still two shot light armor, T2 helmet and maybe one shot naked head.

This way it has a role as the one point weapon to fight naked/light armor that's the hardest to read and can do crazy drags... while the dagger has the role of damaging armor best while being the most predictable, shortest and easiest to counter... and short sword being the middle ground between them.

Cleaver should not be the weapon everyone grabs to fight 3 people at once with full perks and armor. Cleaver should not be the preferred bloodlust weapon after war axe. A kitchen knife should not do more damage to armor than a much heavier bastard sword or arming sword.

Fucking this, amen.
This shit is the Mordhau version of Slasher's baby rattler.
And we never get any response or insight from any dev nor Jax as to why this damn thing exists in its current state. ¿What was the idea behind it? ¿Why does it take so damn long to see a few number changes which is literally all it needs?
The only thing I can think about this is that devs are happy with the current state of the thing, the changes they gave it a few patches ago did little to nothing to address its more glaring issues.

1747 1788

I can answer two of these questions.
It's not an issue in competitive skirmish and therefore under the radar.

Duke 5526 13171
  • 11 Jan
 Jax — Community Manager

it does a lot of damage but has less range than fists

that being said imo it's too fast

117 115
  • 12 Jan
 The Bird

@Jax said:
it does a lot of damage but has less range than fists

that being said imo it's too fast

The Bird decrees that this is insufficient. This kitchen knife of bird slaughter must be banned as an assault cleaver. The damage is far too great to allow this into communities in its current state. A damage reduction or point increase must happen. The Bird commands it.

Bird

FlyForOurLives

AssaultCleaver

GetPekt

Count 274 314

@Jax said:
it does a lot of damage but has less range than fists

that being said imo it's too fast

Honestly that’s my main issue when fighting against it.

You get hit once and it’s almost like you got hit twice as the second strike is already in your face.

1747 1788

@The Bird said:
The Bird decrees that this is insufficient. This kitchen knife of bird slaughter must be banned as an assault cleaver.

Meh. You could achieve the same with a carving knife and a bump grip.

1226 893
  • 12 Jan
 esturias

Right... why doesn't the carving knife get an instakill headstab, regardless of the armorlevel? You would hit the small gaps between the metal plates or stab right through the eye. Would totally make sense!

Knight 5259 7075

@Jax said:
it does a lot of damage but has less range than fists

that being said imo it's too fast

Less range than fists? I never noticed (also it makes no sense ¿wtf?). But I am glad you agree something has to be changed about it. It's just stupid that a 1 point knife does that much damage with slashes to armor and is so viable as a primary weapon for frontline.

1247 1912

I think damage will forever be the problem with cleaver. It's a kitchen knife that 3 shots T3 torso with no weight or leverage. I can't even rationalize it 3 shotting anything but light armor. A dagger's thin, long stab could at least go for the gaps of T3 torso, but what could a slash weapon possibly do to those gaps without the weight of a messer's blade or the leverage of a two handed axe?

If cleaver gets a speed buff it would just be better at dragging and get longer reach as a result, be even better at 1vX, still be 3htk against armor... and it will still be able to accel, like any other weapon in the game. A speed nerf would ultimately be a buff and it will be even better for bloodlust builds.

Cleaver is a small weapon, a kitchen knife... it should be fast. It should bounce right off armor though. 5htk would be a very generous compromise between intelligent life forms and the monkeys who crutch on cleaver.

109 129

@Jax said:
it does a lot of damage but has less range than fists

that being said imo it's too fast

Even if I tend to agree with it being too fast, I think damage is the number one problem.

Range doesn't matter that much in Frontline. When you go Cleaver+Bloodlust, you want to rush in on one guy and cause as much damage/havoc as possible. Kill the guy and repeat. Even if it's one of the many reasons to grab a more expensive weapon, range isn't a big factor here.

When you play Bloodlust, you simply want a cheap weapon that can kill fast. That's why Cleaver and War Axe tends to be favorites, but only Cleaver allows 3/3/3 armor.

@SWSeriousMike said:

@The Bird said:
The Bird decrees that this is insufficient. This kitchen knife of bird slaughter must be banned as an assault cleaver.

Meh. You could achieve the same with a carving knife and a bump grip.

Carving knife doesn't stagger on slash hit opposed to Cleaver, so no.

41 17

Nerf cleaver, buff quarterstaff.

Knight 5259 7075

I can get behind that. Silence has been the go to answer too everytime the quarterstaff is brought up.
But more than a buff, I would like a rework, because the current identity for the staff is "very long and fast but low damage 1 point weapon". A buff would mean to change some numbers to better accomplish this identity, and honestly, it sucks. We need a rework, the staff shouldn't be a silly meme stick. I shouldn't have to bash someone in plate 4 or 5 times to kill him with a heavy pole while I could grab a fucking kitchen knife and kill him with 3 slashes to his breastplate. Seriously, it's retarded.

41 17

@Humble Staff said:
I can get behind that. Silence has been the go to answer too everytime the quarterstaff is brought up.
But more than a buff, I would like a rework, because the current identity for the staff is "very long and fast but low damage 1 point weapon". A buff would mean to change some numbers to better accomplish this identity, and honestly, it sucks. We need a rework, the staff shouldn't be a silly meme stick. I shouldn't have to bash someone in plate 4 or 5 times to kill him with a heavy pole while I could grab a fucking kitchen knife and kill him with 3 slashes to his breastplate. Seriously, it's retarded.

Try being someone who used to do martial arts as a hobby and people say "lol it's just wood". My tonfa would like a word with you. Honestly, imho the Quarterstaff should be a 3 point weapon with med damage, high speed and med range. Acting more like a sword on the shorter alt, and more like a spear on the longer alt.

Also I'm perpetually sad I can only hit with one side of the weapon. Seriously, this and with every other pole weapon in the game, let me strike with a "wake up" on the opposite side of the blade it is 300% viable to do such.

Knight 5259 7075

500% agreed, people have 0 idea of how dangerous a good staff actually is (and blunt weaponry in general).
I and other people have suggested already to make the staff a 3 or 4 point weapon (or make a new heavy staff if you want to keep the current one in game):

  • With medium damage: 3htk T3 head, 4htk T3 torso. Maybe 3 htk too if you mix two headshots and a body shot.
  • Decent speed, significantly slower than current staff, maybe billhook or longsword speed.
  • Above average range, about equal as billhook. Should at the very least outrange a longsword.

The fact that the alternate mode doesn't grab the staff by the middle and uses both ends like it does in chiv is just a matter of development constraints. The staff is currently the only weapon that would benefit from these animations and they can't put time into it, there are far more pressing matters atm.

126 43
  • 15 Jan
 CazzyVR

I think the Issue here is also many don't know how fucking Plate Armor works. There is a reason the Murder Stroke exists. Medieval Long Swords were grabbed by the Blades and used as Improvised Blunt Weapons against Plate Armored opponents, why? BECAUSE PLATE ARMOR IS HARDENED STEEL! A Normal Blade wouldn't be able to cut through it, yet we have Longswords cutting through Plate Armor like it's Butter. Seriously, Plate Armor is some serious shit.

Also Plate Armor isn't Tanky and Cumbersome. Plate Armor is actually quite Light and Nimble, there are even Videos of people in Plate Armor Climbing Walls and doing So many Physical Things in it, from rolling on the Ground to getting on horses and such. Treat Plate Armor like it's actual fuckign Armor! Same with Gambeson and Chainmail! They are some String as Fuck Armors, they need more Respect then what they get.