Mordhau

Kicks (& chambers) need rebalancing

16 23
  • 19 Nov '19
 PPeebs

You might expect this is another whinge thread about kicks versus shields, but I'm not talking about shields. I think kicks are borderline broken in duels, 1v1, say two people with 2 handers fighting. The main reason I say this is that a lot of people have worked out how to exploit them really well, which is fine by itself, the problem is that kicks are way too rewarding for something that is extremely hard to counter.

I frequently have duels with people where I am winning, handily, because I tend to hard read a lot and rely on drags and accels more than morphs and feints. I did the same thing in Chivalry and it worked well there, because if you just spammed your stamina away you would get punished for it - which seems only right, considering hard reads of feints and morphs is one of the hardest things to do in the game. Doing it takes patience and good reflexes and ought to be something that's rewarded.

But not so in Mordhau. Usually I am winning on stamina, because I like to take a more defensive position. But, when my enemy is gasping for breath and I run in to continue landing hits, they can just pull out a very fast kick and completely reverse the entire battle in one hit. One hit that is not countered by anything other than another counter-kick, which in my experience very few people ever pull off, not unless it's one of the slow kicks from a combo. It's straight up one of the hardest things in the game to counter, relatively simple to pull off once you get it down, and utterly destroys the stamina meta. It's like a get out of jail free card for someone who just spammed all their stamina away.

It feels completely broken when hard reading feint after feint results in a stamina win, only to find yourself on the losing end of the fight (and still getting feinted by the other person) because they pulled off one kick on you. Kicking both drains the enemies stamina and rewards the kicker with more stamina themselves. It completely reverses the flow of battle in one move.

This whole criticism probably works into a bigger problem with the stamina system in general, which is that defense is never rewarded in any capacity, whilst pure offense is rewarded at every turn. You get stamina back on every hit, feints and morphs cost the least stamina of any move in the game despite being both the most powerful and the easiest to perform (out of say chambers, combos, kicks, feints and morphs, in that order from worst to best), and even losing all your stamina is often not punished in Mordhau with the jedi-grabs midair of weapons or super fast switching to secondaries.

Chambers would theoretically counter a lot of this bullshit except the devs in their infinite wisdom made the most difficult move to perform consistently also cost the most stamina, meaning chambers really aren't worth using a lot of the time. It's almost like they put chambers in the game to counter feints, but then decided that after all they really wanted the game to be all about spamming morphs and feints so they just nerfed chambers stamina cost until it evened out to the point that both are equivalent, even though the ease of using one is way less than the other.

TLDR: at the very least kicks either shouldn't drain the other persons stamina or shouldn't reward you with more stamina. I don't mind it being a useful move but don't make it some tide turning bullshit exploit where a person who dumpstered their entire fight can suddenly reverse the tables just because they got lucky one time. It's a bad mechanic and only rewards wasteful play styles.

Knight 5259 7069
  • 20 Nov '19
 Humble Staff

I'm no melee god, not even good, i'd say medium level, but if you are using a two hander how do you end up at kick range so often?
Maybe you facehug too much to improve the animation raping and thus your offensive capabilities?

16 23
  • 20 Nov '19
 PPeebs

@Humble Staff said:
I'm no melee god, not even good, i'd say medium level, but if you are using a two hander how do you end up at kick range so often?
Maybe you facehug too much to improve the animation raping and thus your offensive capabilities?

I want to say this is not a problem of "git gud" or of facehugging. I'm not going to brag about my skill level but I play in some low level comp matches and do pretty well. Moreover, this is not about me, I see other people get destroyed by kicks frequently, in fights that they are otherwise going to win, I've even seen people who abuse it admitting that it's pretty broken. Someone can be completely losing a fight and two kicks will reverse the odds instantly.

One of the biggest problems is when you run towards someone, especially when they are retreating, if that person kicks it seems to magically extend the range a ridiculous amount. I think it is lag compensation or something, but the kick can be as long as a greatsword in my experience. I had one guy tell me it's because the kick hits your arm/hand hitbox as you attack, so the kick range is way longer than it's supposed to be. This is also the case against shields, kicks magically grow more range against shield hitboxes. I don't really care about shields but it's worth mentioning just to point out that kick range is not consistent, although that one is intentional.

Knight 5259 7069
  • 1
  • 20 Nov '19
 Humble Staff

The part of kicks hitting your extended arms makes sense. I wasn't trying to criticize your skill by the way, just wanted to understand better why this happens to you so often :).
It may very well be one of the long list of problems to adress, i couldn't tell because i only play frontline/invasión lol.

Count 820 3112
  • 21 Nov '19
 EatAtRedLobster

@Humble Staff said:
"invasión"

Ban this man.

1745 1783
  • 21 Nov '19
 SWSeriousMike

Lina de fronta!

Knight 5259 7069
  • 21 Nov '19
 Humble Staff

@EatAtRedLobster said:

@Humble Staff said:
"invasión"

Ban this man.

Tu mamá baila para mí.