Mordhau

Should Beartraps Count as Teamkills?

1697 1291
  • 18 Nov '19
 esturias

@elgcahlxukuth666 said:

@Cryptic said:
The real issue is that they need to add markers for friendly bear traps.

I disagree. But that's off-topic.

Why would you?

Sellsword 792 2351
  • 18 Nov '19
 Goof

@elgcahlxukuth666 said:

@Cryptic said:
The real issue is that they need to add markers for friendly bear traps.

I disagree. But that's off-topic.

Adding markers for friendly bear traps would literally solve the entire issue of friendly damage.

If they CAN SEE the marker RIGHT FUCKING THERE, then it's their own fault for getting killed by stepping on it.

60 42

@esturias said:

@elgcahlxukuth666 said:

@Cryptic said:
The real issue is that they need to add markers for friendly bear traps.

I disagree. But that's off-topic.

Why would you?

https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/19847/team-beartrap-markers/#c5

Here in this topic we're considering changing the team damage points in current situation, that is assuming there are no markers. Whether beartrap should be marked is another thing, hence my link above.

1430 2175

Teamkills are teamkills. Markers may help.

Knight 766 3328
  • 20 Nov '19
 Mittsies

Everytime I use bear traps, teammates jump into them on purpose and die.
I don't mind, I think it's funny, but it definitely shouldn't count as a teamkill.

60 42
  • 20 Nov '19
 elgcahlxukuth666

@Mittsies said:
Everytime I use bear traps, teammates jump into them on purpose and die.

Why would anyone want to do that?
Do they also do it with fire?
The only reason I can think about is they want to detonate badly placed traps while it is safe and harmless for the team, in order to eliminate the threat of falling into those traps later when the enemies will be approaching and when it will matter...

266 248
  • 20 Nov '19
 Cracksmith

Or maybe because its funny?

1430 2175

Bear traps are memes. Intentionally walking into them is funny sometimes. Team kills are team kills.

Put them at the enemy spawn if you don't want to hit team mates with them. Put them right in front of your team mates if you want to laugh at or with them.

1697 1291
  • 20 Nov '19
 esturias

@elgcahlxukuth666 said:

@Mittsies said:
Everytime I use bear traps, teammates jump into them on purpose and die.

Why would anyone want to do that?
Do they also do it with fire?
The only reason I can think about is they want to detonate badly placed traps while it is safe and harmless for the team, in order to eliminate the threat of falling into those traps later when the enemies will be approaching and when it will matter...

You can disarm beartraps with your weapon.
And Mittsies is most definitely just exaggerating. I've seen a few trolls actively scanning for friendly beartraps and jumping into them in order to get the teammate banned, but I doubt that he is lucky enough to get several of those trolls in every match he uses traps in.

@Lionheart Chevalier said:
Bear traps are memes.

"Memes". Can we please stop to call everything a "meme"?
I'm really starting to hate that kiddycrap. It's everywhere. These days I even find it in the comment section of gardening videos...

Sellsword 792 2351
  • 20 Nov '19
 Goof

"Memes". Can we please stop to call everything a "meme"?
I'm really starting to hate that kiddycrap. It's everywhere. These days I even find it in the comment section of gardening videos...

Ok boomer

874 375
  • 1
  • 21 Nov '19
 PC_Principal

Traps are fine. You can play Borderlands 3 if you like hand holding games. You people need to start listening to voice messages and heads shaking. If I spam "NEGATIVE" while attempting to block someone and all he does is hit me once or kick and run in my trap, whose mistake?...
I've had so many hilarious moments, laughed my ass off when I ran in my own traps and also laughed at Teammates a lot, I place the same 2 traps on Taiga Ladders and Teammates don't get it... Not my fault. I got tired of their stupidity so I started intentionally attacking every teammate who triggered my trap, giving them a couple of kicks or cleaver hits to go eventually killing some. But the same person in the same trap location doesn't deserve to live.
You need to play trappers to understand what places are good to trap and how to avoid them. Don't use the damn ladders DOWN or check for a trap at least. Same goes for doorways and avoid bushes, grass, ash, hay and other invis trap spots.
When I'm trapper I try crouching on my trap when teammates come close to warn, block or protect them from running into it. Sometimes I remove traps to let people pass. But I can't be at 4 places at the same time, babysitting 4 traps.
Teammates still manage to run into my traps. It doesn't matter how well placed they are or how remote.

2017 2104
  • 21 Nov '19
 SWSeriousMike

The engineer trolls blocking their team's spawn point probably 'laughed their asses off' too. That doesn't make it ok.

You make a pretty clear case for why traps should count as team kills and should count for the friendly fire percentage. If 4 people acted as entitled as you do then there was no safe way to get to the opponents.
Don't use the ladders.
Don't use that walkway duh.
Why would you take the stairs?
Don't go through bushes or doors, you noob!

1697 1291
  • 21 Nov '19
 esturias

@PC_Principal said:
Traps are fine.

Ironically, in the following lines you perfectly described why they aren't fine.
And why the game needs more handholding. And a better and more unforgiving teamdamage system.

Knight 5408 7405
  • 21 Nov '19
 Humble Staff

@PC_Principal said:
Traps are fine. You can play Borderlands 3 if you like hand holding games. You people need to start listening to voice messages and heads shaking. If I spam "NEGATIVE" while attempting to block someone and all he does is hit me once or kick and run in my trap, whose mistake?...
I've had so many hilarious moments, laughed my ass off when I ran in my own traps and also laughed at Teammates a lot, I place the same 2 traps on Taiga Ladders and Teammates don't get it... Not my fault. I got tired of their stupidity so I started intentionally attacking every teammate who triggered my trap, giving them a couple of kicks or cleaver hits to go eventually killing some. But the same person in the same trap location doesn't deserve to live.
You need to play trappers to understand what places are good to trap and how to avoid them. Don't use the damn ladders DOWN or check for a trap at least. Same goes for doorways and avoid bushes, grass, ash, hay and other invis trap spots.
When I'm trapper I try crouching on my trap when teammates come close to warn, block or protect them from running into it. Sometimes I remove traps to let people pass. But I can't be at 4 places at the same time, babysitting 4 traps.
Teammates still manage to run into my traps. It doesn't matter how well placed they are or how remote.

Adding beartrap markers for allies would solve like 90% of those problems tho. Would also spare you the work and effort you undergo to keep your mates safe. If they fall for them even with very clear markers telling where the traps are, that's totally on them.

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  • 1
  • 23 Nov '19
 Mojique

@elgcahlxukuth666 said:

@Mittsies said:
Everytime I use bear traps, teammates jump into them on purpose and die.

Why would anyone want to do that?
Do they also do it with fire?
The only reason I can think about is they want to detonate badly placed traps while it is safe and harmless for the team, in order to eliminate the threat of falling into those traps later when the enemies will be approaching and when it will matter...

Why would anyone do that? Well, because it's annoying me in particular. I have to run all the way over to the box to grab some more, and his tier 3 legs means he is not even relatively hurt by it, so he'll just do it again. It's baiting me into teamkilling, and I can't kick him without persuading everyone without any evidence (he hasn't hurt me, just destroyed my equipment, so it's not team damage) that he's fucking with me and making the game harder for everyone else. I had this exact situation happen with me on Feitoria Invasion; I was on defense, and the ladder to the window of the right tower is one of the most important positions to hold aside from underground. Because people run very weak legs, they take a lot of damage from bear traps, and they can't see the bear trap as they're climbing in. Once they trigger it, they are vulnerable to attacks from the people guarding it. It is the most pristine, perfect spot for a bear trap. I made a whole build dedicated to guarding that singular spot, which I could do very nicely so long as there were teammates running around to help when three or four come climbing up the ladder. This one guy comes along, stops, looks down at it, and steps in it. Laughs. I place a second one, he does the same thing. I run to the ammo box, and he's waiting to step in some more. He continued to do that for the next twenty minutes. He is not only why bear traps shouldn't count as team kills, but also a great argument for a perk that lets me deal double damage to teammates.

If someone is particularly awful with firebombs and has consistently made it harder for me to fight an enemy or chase them down or something like that instead of keeping enemies away from objectives, yes, I will stand in firebombs and stare at the teammate. It's more of me telling them "stop being so bad with firebombs it's not that hard" in the only language they understand because clearly English doesn't work. I wouldn't do it so much that they'd get kicked, only so much that, if they are willing to learn and get better at any video game they ever play in their lives, they would be more careful about where and how they throw it.

Firebombs are different from bear traps because it's certainly more hot-headed, desperate measure, that most importantly is applied after the targets are present, and mistakes do happen on the part of the thrower; that's fine, after a little bit of training and discipline. Bear traps are a much slower, more calculated means of attacking an enemy that may end up attacking a teammate, both on the trapper's part and the victim coming to it. They have to choose a spot in advance, where there isn't action but perhaps about to be. It is visible, it is present before anyone goes there, and it can't be adjusted by any part on the trapper's mind after it has been laid its final time.

Stepping into a bear trap should be just like running into engineer spikes; entirely their fault and should be rightly punished. It should be on the trapper to warn teammates by either crouching over it or using team chat, and the untargeted victims should be more careful before stepping around the same spots they were harmed for stepping in before, but in the end the grave was dug and it's not the digger's fault someone hopped right in.

2017 2104
  • 24 Nov '19
 SWSeriousMike

If you have that one player dedicated to triggering your traps, you can just stop planting traps.

It's also very hard to sympathize with someone who places traps at ladders. I don't understand why the community hates on archers and shield users but people planting unavoidable traps and horsemen get a free pass. It's just making the game miserable for the attackers and boring for the defenders.

404 607
  • 24 Nov '19
 smug

imagine thinking bear traps shouldnt be TKs.

874 375
  • 10
  • 24 Nov '19
 PC_Principal

TL;DR: With team markers, everyone will just be triggering, destroying, kicking people in and walking into traps "for the lulz". This community is that retarded yes. And markers won't stop people from walking into them by accident in a fight while walking backwards or sideways. So while it would solve some of the problems for the majority of players, it creates a whole new bunch of problems for the trapper. Traps aren't teamkills to stop retards from revenge killing or vote kicking trappers that did nothing, just like you do with builders or cata players that made one mistake.

I can kill 15 on cata and 2-3 mates which is a pretty good ratio and one of the 3 will come and firebomb my cata cuz he's mad. Just stupid players. Yesterday, a teammate did that because I killed him and the guy he was fighting with the same shot. Right now, there's always some collateral teamdamage with traps, even in normal 3v3+ situations accidents happen. Get over it and learn to forgive TK, if the person says sorry or not...

@smug said:
imagine thinking bear traps shouldnt be TKs.

Imagine one line sentences. GROG IMAGINE.

@SWSeriousMike said:
It's also very hard to sympathize with someone who places traps at ladders.

Yea those people in the middle ages didn't fuck around. Check how they tortured people. I'd say I have to blame the castle setting for that.

@SWSeriousMike said:
The engineer trolls blocking their team's spawn point probably 'laughed their asses off' too. That doesn't make it ok.

You make a pretty clear case for why traps should count as team kills and should count for the friendly fire percentage. If 4 people acted as entitled as you do then there was no safe way to get to the opponents.
Don't use the ladders.
Don't use that walkway duh.
Why would you take the stairs?
Don't go through bushes or doors, you noob!

I have a question for you Mike. If you are gonna exit the Taiga fort, as a blue, towards red base, are you gonna take the ladder? If yes, is there a way to convince you to take another way? For instance some guy with a hood in scottish accent shoting "No way" and Insults, while crouching over a Bear trap to prevent teammates from running into it? I can't sit on my traps and body block Idiots for too long, but even when I do some players just don't get it.

Well, I'm still improving on my trap placements honestly. I'm also spamming all caps trap warnings in teamchat now when I set my traps up. I had the feeling it helped. I'm also trying to show nearby players, where I'm putting my traps. However, if I catch some teammate in my trap they gonna get insulted in voice lines instead of kicked or killed. If I find the same player in the same trap twice I'm teamkilling him still though.

2017 2104
  • 24 Nov '19
 SWSeriousMike

If people want to harass you, they don't need your traps for that. I really don't understand that train of thought. It takes quite the commitment to die in well-placed friendly bear traps considering that they deal 50 damage at most.

And again: If it was an archer saying that people keep running into their shots you'd hit page up without hesitation. This time is just different because you are not the victim. I usually don't believe in an eye for an eye, but you guys make me question that.

1697 1291
  • 24 Nov '19
 esturias

@PC_Principal said:
TL;DR: With team markers, everyone will just be triggering, destroying, kicking people in and walking into traps "for the lulz".

Why would they need trapmarkers for that?
It's actually the opposite: Trapmarkers would make it harder for them to troll people, because their victims have better chances to see the traps.
The only trolls who would profit from traps getting marked, are the suiciders. But trolls in general are a completely other topic, no need to hold back the game's progress because of them...