Mordhau

What's going on Triternion?

39 38
  • 26 Oct '19
 sneakers

@Lord Commander Guts said:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Lord Commander Guts said:
to be fair modders that release in 1 month are mostly just duel maps. Triternion maps are much bigger in order to use for invasion/frontline. My map I built alone, only stopping to ask sr. modders questions such as blueprint questions and such. Put 140 hours over 4 months into it. Now they got 2 maps with I'm sure similar amount per maps, but with better results.

And modders with the help of TRITERNION were able to release the uSDK you are talking about. Do more research before you make such claims.

140 hours are not even a month of work. Developing this game is their profession now. They should start acting professional. Until they do people have every right to complain.
As it stands now, you accomplished more than them in your free time.

and to be fair, this is just shy of a months work. I'm sure the Mordhau devs might have other jobs too.

I bet the lead dev and his buddies don't have to work another day after all the money they just raked in.

How ever the rest of the devs are now probably if not already working for other companies.

They obviously didn't put any money into the game or the dev team.

Knight 7768 14309
  • 26 Oct '19
 ToLazy4Name

you've made multiple posts about "leaving" this forum yet you continue to post lmao

Count 1475 965

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Lord Commander Guts said:
and to be fair, this is just shy of a months work. I'm sure the Mordhau devs might have other jobs too.

If they had other work then they'd have even more money to hire someone. If they had other work then there would be no reason for this early release.
I'm tired of the excuses. Small dev team, no money, unreal engine, steam, niche game, biased media, free speech, no politics... I wonder if there is any excuse that wasn't used now. This is just ridiculous.

I don't see any room for growth as long as they can't admit to their mistakes.

wtf. so I guess devs don't have bills to pay huh? Nor families to provide for? If you are so rich why don't you become a dev or an investor?

23 5
  • 1
  • 26 Oct '19
 420friendly

@sneakers said:

@Lord Commander Guts said:

@SWSeriousMike said:

@Lord Commander Guts said:
to be fair modders that release in 1 month are mostly just duel maps. Triternion maps are much bigger in order to use for invasion/frontline. My map I built alone, only stopping to ask sr. modders questions such as blueprint questions and such. Put 140 hours over 4 months into it. Now they got 2 maps with I'm sure similar amount per maps, but with better results.

And modders with the help of TRITERNION were able to release the uSDK you are talking about. Do more research before you make such claims.

140 hours are not even a month of work. Developing this game is their profession now. They should start acting professional. Until they do people have every right to complain.
As it stands now, you accomplished more than them in your free time.

and to be fair, this is just shy of a months work. I'm sure the Mordhau devs might have other jobs too.

I bet the lead dev and his buddies don't have to work another day after all the money they just raked in.

How ever the rest of the devs are now probably if not already working for other companies.

They obviously didn't put any money into the game or the dev team.

you're aids

1749 1793
  • 26 Oct '19
 SWSeriousMike

No idea what you are talking about, Special Officer Guts. Nothing of what you just wrote made any sense. I guess it's good pasta though.

Duke 553 939
  • 27 Oct '19
 Goatie

Community can't decide what excuse is real to use for the devs slow progress. First it's they quit their jobs to work on this game now and they're a small dedicated indie team and then it's oh they still have to work their jobs thats why it's slow. Then it's excusing the fall off of players because the game is a 'niche' but that doesn't explain predominantly chiv veterans quitting the game as well because it's just not fun. Reality is this full release game is still being treated like an alpha whatever product and not investing money back into that product doesn't shine a bright future for it. By the time it is fully fleshed out (if they even stick around that long) how many players will even be left.

Sellsword 226 266
  • 27 Oct '19
 Redeaux

Funds are safu.
1571066340799.jpg

69 59
1229 896
  • 29 Oct '19
 esturias

@Digganob said:
I bet you think you look foolish now kiddo.

Would you mind telling us why you think that?

Duke 553 939
  • 29 Oct '19
 Goatie

Lol no-one said it wouldn't come out at all

175 117

@Digganob said:
I bet you think you look foolish now kiddo. (https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/20215/patch-13-released-feitoria/)

The complaint was directed towards the general lack of substantial content updates for 5 months, considering the funds which the developers received - hiring new map creators was not out of question for them.

There have been many maps created by the community made singlehandedly by individual developers in that time, but Triternion really did pull it off. I did say in my second post that this had better be the best medieval map ever created considering the underlying mechanics of invasion mode had been released, the 5 month wait and the fact they were planned for release one at a time.

And it damn well should be, it pretty much is - there could be a few more new sounds and there should be a last objective on mountain peak, Grad and Feitoria where the defebding players defend a player king or commander in a throne room - but besides those two small criticisms which can be added or fixed later Triternion really achieved something commendable and massive.

It's not even about entitlement towards content, the concern is about the perceived lack of interest from the devs in releasing content. Balancing does not count as content and the lack of content drives players away from the game. There was 1/20th (3k concurrent vs 60k) the players playing before the update compared to at release. As much as I hope that this content release brings back players, I don't want to see the game die and I hope the devs realise the need for monthly or bimonthly content updates, map extensions or cosmetics instead of nothing and no news. Its unhealthy for the longevity of the community.

69 59
  • 30 Oct '19
 Digganob

@LetsFightíngLöve said:

@Digganob said:
I bet you think you look foolish now kiddo. (https://mordhau.com/forum/topic/20215/patch-13-released-feitoria/)

The complaint was directed towards the general lack of substantial content updates for 5 months, considering the funds which the developers received - hiring new map creators was not out of question for them.

There have been many maps created by the community made singlehandedly by individual developers in that time, but Triternion really did pull it off. I did say in my second post that this had better be the best medieval map ever created considering the underlying mechanics of invasion mode had been released, the 5 month wait and the fact they were planned for release one at a time.

And it damn well should be, it pretty much is - there could be a few more new sounds and there should be a last objective on mountain peak, Grad and Feitoria where the defebding players defend a player king or commander in a throne room - but besides those two small criticisms which can be added or fixed later Triternion really achieved something commendable and massive.

It's not even about entitlement towards content, the concern is about the perceived lack of interest from the devs in releasing content. Balancing does not count as content and the lack of content drives players away from the game. There was 1/20th (3k concurrent vs 60k) the players playing before the update compared to at release. As much as I hope that this content release brings back players, I don't want to see the game die and I hope the devs realise the need for monthly or bimonthly content updates, map extensions or cosmetics instead of nothing and no news. Its unhealthy for the longevity of the community.

I think I see your points, and the devs could be more open as to why they can't or won't pump out content faster. However, I don't think it's reasonable to complain when so much is being done. Remember they're focusing on both gameplay and content, that divides their focus significantly. Personally, I'd be fine with occasional content updates, but constant balance updates, because that makes the game more fun, as opposed to just refreshing interest a bit more often.

Remember that they could have just released this as it was. They had already made it through tons of testing and decided on what they wanted the gameplay to feel like. But they didn't, and they keep on providing both better gameplay and more content, whereas they could have just abandoned it after they got their money, but they're still working on it.

I think the only thing that is way past overdue is tools for modding and such, so that they can crowdsource content, while mostly focusing on gameplay. I think that's their one mistake, and I hope they will release tools soon, because I and many others would use them.

1229 896
  • 31 Oct '19
 esturias

@Digganob said:
I think I see your points, and the devs could be more open as to why they can't or won't pump out content faster. However, I don't think it's reasonable to complain when so much is being done.

You mean... so much that they lost 95% of the players? And so much that people imagine the most colorful stories about what the devs are doing with their earned money, because there simply isn't any communication?

Personally, I'd be fine with occasional content updates, but constant balance updates, because that makes the game more fun, as opposed to just refreshing interest a bit more often.

You already have your "occasional content updates". I'd prefer even more occasionally coming content updates, if only they were of better quality. So far, they were just bad, because they just released some half baked nonsense that didn't get properly tested.
The balancing updates seem to be more or less fine (I'm not enough into the details to be able to judge that), but suffer from the same problem: Be it content, balance or just overall maintenance, there is still so much to do, that, given the current speed and quality of development, the game will need years to actually reach the stage of a full and also fixed game. For a niche game, that might be too long...

Duke 5526 13171
  • 31 Oct '19
 Jax — Community Manager

The thing though is that we're not going anywhere. If we were taking the money and running we would have done that long ago. Aside from Chiv 2, there's nothing coming out that fulfills our niche of 1st-person realtime melee (I don't count Bannerlord because it's a slightly different focus in terms of gameplay, scale etc) so if people feel like playing a 1st person melee game, we'll be here, adding new content and features,

I think the player base dropped off so much for a variety of reasons, but a few of them are:

  1. Natural release peak/decline: this happens with virtually every game.
  2. Niche game: a lot of people bought Mordhau because it was something different and not many big games released around ours. Once people's main style of game (FPS etc) released they went back to those.
  3. More sales than we expected/great release: We sold a lot more than we expected, and for some reason the game caught on really well in the beginning. That's awesome, and we're very grateful for everyone that gave Mordhau a try, but 60k peak players wasn't something that was sustainable. I think that the situation is more of us having a higher peak than we expected, not as much the drop. If we had a peak more in line with what we expected, say 10-15k, our current numbers wouldn't be anything to comment on.
1229 896
  • 3
  • 31 Oct '19
 esturias

@Jax said:
we'll be here, adding new content and features

The problem is that noone notices you being here. There is zero communication and we have no idea what you are up to.
The latter part is a discussion for its own, but I don't always want to be the negative partypooper...

I think the player base dropped off so much for a variety of reasons, but a few of them are:

Sure. Those are some of them. But what about the others ones? The major ones. Don't you even have the decency to name those and to admit some mistakes? No Executioner Sword in sight, noone will behead you. You did a great job and many people still play your game, that's something you can be really proud of. But you somehow lost it completely by now. I see you having multiple thousand posts... where are those now? You say this is a niche game, where are your (and your team's) efforts to keep the playerbase together?
Give yourself (and your entire team) a kick in the butt (and maybe in the nuts, just for fun), it can only get better...

(Still thanks for that comment...)

Duke 5526 13171
  • 31 Oct '19
 Jax — Community Manager

I have to split my time between the forums, reddit, discord, answer tech support and player report email, business emails, twitter, steam discussions, and more. I read a lot of what is on the forums, but I don't have the time to reply to everything. I'm just one person, but I'll try to be more active around the forums going forwards.

Those are the main reasons I've listed, along with a lack of content and updates. We don't have the business infrastructure in place to rapidly expand, and doing so wouldn't be the wisest choice for us long-term. We can pretty much work on Mordhau indefinitely right now and not have to worry about running out of money - if we hired a ton of people we'd need to change the legal side of our business, rent an office, get managers in place, HR people, and then hire a bunch of devs, train them up etc. That would take a huge investment, and what it would get us is the ability to push out content faster. What we would lose is what I mentioned above - at the moment we have a 'safety net' where we're able to work without needing outside investment or having to pump out MTX, and not have to worry about making a sequel or going bankrupt. At this point in time, it's not really worth it to expand for marginal gains and a lot more risk.

165 64
  • 31 Oct '19
 CarnifeX

For me personally, thats enough, thanks for the clarification - its a lot easier to understand some things now.
Feitoria was a great addition to the game, this map is a milestone!
I'm still not happy about some things i already mentioned in the patch-thread,
but well i'm also not a person of patience, but this is my own bug which i've to fix by myself

Duke 553 939
  • 1 Nov '19
 Goatie

I still don't see why 1-2 hires isn't possible but OK. There's also bigger reasons for the drop off as lots of vets are quitting too so it's none of that niche or natural drop off stuff.

1229 896
  • 1 Nov '19
 esturias

@Jax said:
[active communication!]

See? That's exactly what I meant, what we are missing. You finally managed to give us a little heads-up, a short and simple news about your team's status. That's what people were waiting for since months.

I have to split my time between the forums, reddit, discord, [...] business emails, twitter, steam discussions, and more.

I'm not nerd enough to use stuff like reddit, discord, steam or Twitter, so I might be wrong here... but in my understanding of things, the forum of a multiplayergame should be the the the top priority of care. Especially if it's a niche game (or an almost dead one) that won't attract many casual players, either.
When I'm interested in trying a new multiplayergame, I always check the forum. If it's somewhat actively maintained by the devs and their team, I have a good feeling. If it's abandoned, I know that the game won't hold up for long.
I was never wrong with that yet and so it happened here, too...

[...] answer tech support and player report email [...]

Protip for that: Get someone to answer a few of the bug reports and other problems in the dedicated subforum. People get absolutely no help there.
I already suggested opening some pinned threads with basic help for the most common issues, like losing progress. Nothing happened. Would spare you quite some work, I guess... and not only because I often tell people to write you a mail instead of waiting for an answer here...

I read a lot of what is on the forums, but I don't have the time to reply to everything.

Noone expects a reply to every thread. But right now we can call ourselves lucky if we get ONE answer every week or every two weeks. And that answer looks like it gets thrown into the first random thread you can find, instead of an important one. I mean... you just said you read a lot, so you should find those, too...

I'm just one person, but I'll try to be more active around the forums going forwards.

Again, noone is expecting any of you guys to write books here, but... again: Right now there is absolutely ZERO communication.

Those are the main reasons I've listed, along with a lack of content and updates.

But there are still some main reasons missing...
Reasons that were discussed all over the forum. What about those?

We can pretty much work on Mordhau indefinitely right now and not have to worry about running out of money [...]
at the moment we have a 'safety net' where we're able to work without needing outside investment

That is very good to hear.

We don't have the business infrastructure in place to rapidly expand,

Again. Who is asking for that?
All that people are asking for is to hire one or maybe two professional people or even to just "outsource" some work in order to get the quality of things up. Noone would care about you taking so long for updates - if only the stuff you dish out would be convincing. And there is still so much stuff to do and to fix...
Remember Crossroads? People were waiting so long for new content. Then the content came and... yeah. Bummer.
Now we basically have the same with Feitoria. Was completely unplayable, so you had to throw out a first fix a few hours after release already. Now it gets played again and again and the hype will die off very soon, because it still has lots of other issues - many of them already being in the game since a long time, ruining new additions to the game with every release.
That's not the kind of stuff that people are willing to wait for for ages...

1749 1793
  • 1 Nov '19
 SWSeriousMike

@Jax said:
We can pretty much work on Mordhau indefinitely right now and not have to worry about running out of money

Where is all the passion gone? You guys went from "we want to make the best slasher game ever SOON (tm)" to "maybe some of us will witness the game's completion before they draw their last breath".

The Kickstarter campaign was appealing because you dreamed big. You invested time and money. And the investment brought a lot of profit. Why not reinvest now? Make progress, get positive reviews and make money with the Christmas sale.

Most of the successful games were niche games before they became big.