Mordhau

Dissapointment with invasion mode, it was overhyped and a letdown

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  • 26 Sep '19
 Tr0gledyte

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@SWSeriousMike said:
Mordhau wasn't released because the game was finished but because the devs were broke. And that's because they were quite slow. The Kickstarter campaign was a success and many stretch goals were reached. Sometimes you need to spend money to safe money. Hiring and/or training would have helped. You wouldn't be that tolerant if it was about any other item or service - other software included. Only in entertainment you can screw up that badly and people are still looking for excuses.

I would feel disingenuous complaining when I am enjoying the new mode and already have enjoyed over 700 hours of entertainment from the game in general. I genuinely believe the developers have not screwed up, and so do thousands of people still enjoying the game (which is about an expected number for a niche indie game like this). There are hundreds of players playing just invasion in the EU every day, while duelyard servers are also going strong as ever.

I also don't blame Triternion for not blowing their profits immediately like some people seem to expect them to do. As a new game studio, they probably want to save most of it to invest in future projects as long as they can reasonably keep the game going with their current team.

You wouldn't be that tolerant if it was about any other item or service - other software included.

Anything that I enjoy and see no end of that enjoyment toward, I will gladly tolerate.

What do you mean by blowing their profits? Their team gets a monthly salary regardless of what they do. They can sit on their asses or work on Mordhau, no difference in the money they spend on employees, office space, servers etc. I highly doubt they already have a new project lined up right now.. maybe in a year.

1697 1292
  • 26 Sep '19
 esturias

Again:
"Enjoying" something doesn't have to imply anything about quality.
When I play the game, I enjoy it, too. But then again, I only play it for a few matches every other week. More... no, thanks.

When I was a kid, I enjoyed playing with a really shitty Transformers toy that fell apart all the time. I liked it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was crap.
When I cut leather or similar stuff, I use an old leather knife with a broken handle and a bent blade. I like working with it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's broken.

If you like the game as it is - fine. But given this forum full of complaints and stuff, you should be able to see that there might be some issues, instead of acting like an undemanding fanboy.
It's called objectivity.

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 26 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@esturias said:
Again:
"Enjoying" something doesn't have to imply anything about quality.
When I play the game, I enjoy it, too. But then again, I only play it for a few matches every other week. More... no, thanks.

When I was a kid, I enjoyed playing with a really shitty Transformers toy that fell apart all the time. I liked it, but that doesn't change the fact that it was crap.
When I cut leather or similar stuff, I use an old leather knife with a broken handle and a bent blade. I like working with it, but that doesn't change the fact that it's broken.

If you like the game as it is - fine. But given this forum full of complaints and stuff, you should be able to see that there might be some issues, instead of acting like an undemanding fanboy.
It's called objectivity.

There are like 10 active users on this forum. If you want to be objective, this is not much to go by. Check out the way more active subreddit for example, which is full of people posting about fun things they've been doing ingame.

Not to mention that you are claiming to be objective, and your examples of other things being broken are objective, but the complaints in this thread are completely subjective. Invasion was a letdown IF you subjectively don't enjoy it. The updates are disappointing IF you subjectively don't like the changes.

The only objective problems are technical issues, the rest is completely a matter of opinion.

1697 1292
  • 27 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
The only objective problems are technical issues, the rest is completely a matter of opinion.

No. We got many objective points of criticism here. The overall conclusion about whether you like it or not, that's mostly nothing but a personal opinion.

You should really educate yourself about opinion and objectivity...

23 11
  • 27 Sep '19
 BenitoMussolini

@bobbydigital said:
This game mode brings camping to mordhau, it slows down the pace of the game to a snails pace.

Camping at bottlenecks
Camping in towers
Camping inside toolbox structure
Camping with the king
Camping at the top of a ladder

Camping at bottlenecks that are in towers, surrounded by toolbox structures with the king. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZ

and how exactly does this ruin the game? it's much better, if you defend, you might wanna do everything possible to block the access to some areas of the place you want to defend, and it's actual fun, 2 walls of enemies fighting each other, same for the rest, it's fun, except on Camp, the enemy spawns too close to the cart

Mercenary 1263 2303

@esturias said:
No. We got many objective points of criticism here. The overall conclusion about whether you like it or not, that's mostly nothing but a personal opinion.

You should really educate yourself about opinion and objectivity...

presents no argument
go educate yourself

Nice job buddy.

So far all you've mentioned is that in your opinion development is too slow, the patch is not good enough, the new gamemode is a letdown, etc. These are all obviously subjective opinions which I and many others still enjoying the game and the new gamemode, happen to disagree with.

I've already said that my stance on all these things is an opinion, you're the one claiming objectivity.

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  • 27 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
So far all you've mentioned is that in your opinion development is too slow, the patch is not good enough, the new gamemode is a letdown, etc.

I also offered arguments (containing simple facts) as to why I have that opinion. And I think that the point about developing speed wasn't even in this thread.

These are all obviously subjective opinions which I and many others still enjoying the game and the new gamemode, happen to disagree with.

Without voicing any argument, so far it was nothing but undemanding fanboy nonsense.

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 27 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@esturias said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
So far all you've mentioned is that in your opinion development is too slow, the patch is not good enough, the new gamemode is a letdown, etc.

I also offered arguments (containing simple facts) as to why I have that opinion. And I think that the point about developing speed wasn't even in this thread.

Yeah I just read back the entire thread and I couldn't find any argument for the things you mentioned that is in any way objective. Maybe you can help me out here by pointing out which ones you are talking about?

Development speed was brought up one page back by SWSerious.

These are all obviously subjective opinions which I and many others still enjoying the game and the new gamemode, happen to disagree with.

Without voicing any argument, so far it was nothing but undemanding fanboy nonsense.

I'll restate the arguments and opinions I've shared and you can tell me how it's 'fanboy nonsense'.

  1. I disagree with claims that invasion is a lazy addition to the game, as well as it being a letdown. Those things are subjective, but I never claimed they were objective. That claim came from you guys. I happen to enjoy the new gamemode and have been playing it any chance I have, so have many others judging by servers (at least in EU) being very populated across the board.

  2. Mordhau development is slow, but not especially so for an indie game with a small team working on it. Anyone who has played indie games knows this. There are faster developers, but certainly many of them are a lot slower. Even some AAA developers are comparatively slow on the update.

Honestly, if you've been on the forums for a while, you might even know I'm not exactly a fanboy when it comes to Triternion. I like their game, but I heavily criticized, and still do, their decisions when it comes to moderating the forums and the ingame chat, their long standing lenience toward extremists being able to propagandise on these forums (banning only some of them and deleting their posts just before releasing the game in what I suspect to be preventive PR damage control), their communication with costumers (not engaging in feedback conversations on the forums or reddit, not giving us enough updates on progress they are making/what they are working on), etc. I'm not trying to brown nose the devs by replying to you in this way. I'm simply voicing my opinion. And I think what you're doing is feeding into a toxic feedback loop of people complaining endlessly, giving the game bad reviews and decreasing the chances that new players will buy this game in the process. Which is a shame because I do love the game.

I think I've said enough, if you're still not convinced or at least accept that your opinion is just as subjective as mine, you're never going to.

2018 2106
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  • 27 Sep '19
 SWSeriousMike

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
I would feel disingenuous complaining when I am enjoying the new mode and already have enjoyed over 700 hours of entertainment from the game in general. I genuinely believe the developers have not screwed up, and so do thousands of people still enjoying the game (which is about an expected number for a niche indie game like this). There are hundreds of players playing just invasion in the EU every day, while duelyard servers are also going strong as ever.

If we want to talk numbers then let's talk about the number of players who have quit the game. Your numbers pale in comparison.

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

  1. Mordhau development is slow, but not especially so for an indie game with a small team working on it. Anyone who has played indie games knows this. There are faster developers, but certainly many of them are a lot slower. Even some AAA developers are comparatively slow on the update.

Why do you start with this non-sense again? The overwhelming majority of games I have played in the last 5 years are indie titles. What's next? No true Scotsman?

Honestly, if you've been on the forums for a while, you might even know I'm not exactly a fanboy when it comes to Triternion. I like their game, but I heavily criticized, and still do, their decisions when it comes to moderating the forums and the ingame chat, their long standing lenience toward extremists being able to propagandise on these forums (banning only some of them and deleting their posts just before releasing the game in what I suspect to be preventive PR damage control), their communication with costumers (not engaging in feedback conversations on the forums or reddit, not giving us enough updates on progress they are making/what they are working on), etc.

That's a very valid complaint. The same people who say that motivational mute was enough and bans aren't necessary banned Frise because of abrasive comments and Peacerer for spamming. That's hypocrisy at it's finest.

I'm not trying to brown nose the devs by replying to you in this way. I'm simply voicing my opinion. And I think what you're doing is feeding into a toxic feedback loop of people complaining endlessly, giving the game bad reviews and decreasing the chances that new players will buy this game in the process. Which is a shame because I do love the game.

We are not complaining endlessly and it's not toxic. I'd say many people are just roaming the forum infrequently and waiting for an adequate release.
You enjoy the game and that's fine. But the "small indie dev team" excuse is non-sense. Dismissing negative feedback isn't a winning strat. Some people enjoy krokodil but I still wouldn't recommend it to friends - or anyone.

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 27 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@SWSeriousMike said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
I would feel disingenuous complaining when I am enjoying the new mode and already have enjoyed over 700 hours of entertainment from the game in general. I genuinely believe the developers have not screwed up, and so do thousands of people still enjoying the game (which is about an expected number for a niche indie game like this). There are hundreds of players playing just invasion in the EU every day, while duelyard servers are also going strong as ever.

If we want to talk numbers then let's talk about the number of players who have quit the game. Your numbers pale in comparison.

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

  1. Mordhau development is slow, but not especially so for an indie game with a small team working on it. Anyone who has played indie games knows this. There are faster developers, but certainly many of them are a lot slower. Even some AAA developers are comparatively slow on the update.

Why do you start with this non-sense again? The overwhelming majority of games I have played in the last 5 years are indie titles. What's next? No true Scotsman?

That is not a no true Scotsman, but I'll admit it is an anecdotal argument from experience (like your rebuttal). I've already conceded that these arguments are all subjective.

Honestly, if you've been on the forums for a while, you might even know I'm not exactly a fanboy when it comes to Triternion. I like their game, but I heavily criticized, and still do, their decisions when it comes to moderating the forums and the ingame chat, their long standing lenience toward extremists being able to propagandise on these forums (banning only some of them and deleting their posts just before releasing the game in what I suspect to be preventive PR damage control), their communication with costumers (not engaging in feedback conversations on the forums or reddit, not giving us enough updates on progress they are making/what they are working on), etc.

That's a very valid complaint. The same people who say that motivational mute was enough and bans aren't necessary banned Frise because of abrasive comments and Peacerer for spamming. That's hypocrisy at it's finest.

I'm not trying to brown nose the devs by replying to you in this way. I'm simply voicing my opinion. And I think what you're doing is feeding into a toxic feedback loop of people complaining endlessly, giving the game bad reviews and decreasing the chances that new players will buy this game in the process. Which is a shame because I do love the game.

We are not complaining endlessly and it's not toxic. I'd say many people are just roaming the forum infrequently and waiting for an adequate release.

I hate to play this card again, but having been around from the alpha I can tell you people have been complaining maybe the second or third patch. And I think leaving bad reviews because you don't like the speed at which updates are released, or the current balance, or anything that is obviously a temporary issue, or simply expecting too much, is kind of toxic. But agree to disagree once again.

You enjoy the game and that's fine. But the "small indie dev team" excuse is non-sense. Dismissing negative feedback isn't a winning strat. Some people enjoy krokodil but I still wouldn't recommend it to friends - or anyone.

I don't think a life threatening drug is necessarily a great choice of analogy, but fair point. I'm not dismissing negative feedback, but I am giving my own opinion about it. Like I've said before, there are valid complaints to be made about the game. I think the ones being presented in this thread are very uncharitable, though.

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  • 27 Sep '19
 esturias

Won't quote all that stuff apart on the phone...

In short:

  1. Claim: "Invasion is a half-assed addition to the game."
    People's arguments:
    # Very little changes compared to Frontlines, with the King controlled by a player being the absolute only new feature in the entire gamemode, apart from slightly changed "rules".
    # Completely same maps, no changes, apart from some optical changes (fire) here and there. Not even using the areas around/below the Grad castle for some more objectives.
    # Badly balanced, attackers having too much of an advantage and winning most matches. (And no, the asymmetrical gameplay doesn't mean anything regarding balance, like many people like to claim.)
    # Causing some quite annoying technical problems around performance, due to lacking programming.

  2. Claim: "Developement is too slow."
    General comments:
    # People rarely talk about the speed. When they do, it's mostly because they have to wait THAT long for only half-assed additions of content. It's about the quality...
    # That "indie developer argument" is getting old. Again: That might be an excuse for speed, but not for quality and not if you are sitting on enough cash to change certain things.

I'm simply voicing my opinion. And I think what you're doing is feeding into a toxic feedback loop of people complaining endlessly, giving the game bad reviews and decreasing the chances that new players will buy this game in the process. Which is a shame because I do love the game.

Sooo... you want us to lie in order to attract new players, because complaining about the problems the game has and being honest is bad. Did I get that right?
That would be fanboy/plain stupid standpoint number two already...

I think I've said enough, if you're still not convinced or at least accept that your opinion is just as subjective as mine, you're never going to.

Not doing that, of course. Because you are wrong. You started with a completely deluded fanboy post and you kept arguing like an undemanding fanboy. You gave little to no arguments, the only thing you keep repeating is how much you love everything and when people argued too much, you came with the spoiled child nonsense.

(edit: This forum software is total crap. Can't even use "-" at the start of a line without getting it auto-formatted in a completely weird way...)

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 27 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@esturias said:
Won't quote all that stuff apart on the phone...

In short:

  1. Claim: "Invasion is a half-assed addition to the game."
    People's arguments:
    # Very little changes compared to Frontlines, with the King controlled by a player being the absolute only new feature in the entire gamemode, apart from slightly changed "rules".
    # Completely same maps, no changes, apart from some optical changes (fire) here and there. Not even using the areas around/below the Grad castle for some more objectives.
    # Badly balanced, attackers having too much of an advantage and winning most matches. (And no, the asymmetrical gameplay doesn't mean anything regarding balance, like many people like to claim.)
    # Causing some quite annoying technical problems around performance, due to lacking programming.

  2. Claim: "Developement is too slow."
    General comments:
    # People rarely talk about the speed. When they do, it's mostly because they have to wait THAT long for only half-assed additions of content. It's about the quality...
    # That "indie developer argument" is getting old. Again: That might be an excuse for speed, but not for quality and not if you are sitting on enough cash to change certain things.

I'm simply voicing my opinion. And I think what you're doing is feeding into a toxic feedback loop of people complaining endlessly, giving the game bad reviews and decreasing the chances that new players will buy this game in the process. Which is a shame because I do love the game.

Sooo... you want us to lie in order to attract new players, because complaining about the problems the game has and being honest is bad. Did I get that right?
That would be fanboy/plain stupid standpoint number two already...

I think I've said enough, if you're still not convinced or at least accept that your opinion is just as subjective as mine, you're never going to.

Not doing that, of course. Because you are wrong. You started with a completely deluded fanboy post and you kept arguing like an undemanding fanboy. You gave little to no arguments, the only thing you keep repeating is how much you love everything and when people argued too much, you came with the spoiled child nonsense.

(edit: This forum software is total crap. Can't even use "-" at the start of a line without getting it auto-formatted in a completely weird way...)

I'm not gonna go around this circle again. I explained what I meant several times, if you don't get it (or want to get it) read again. Mischaracterising things I've explained several times makes this not worth my time.

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  • 27 Sep '19
 smug

I hate to play this card again, but having been around from the alpha I can tell you people have been complaining maybe the second or third patch. And I think leaving bad reviews because you don't like the speed at which updates are released, or the current balance, or anything that is obviously a temporary issue, or simply expecting too much, is kind of toxic. But agree to disagree once again.

Had the devs listened back then perhaps the game would be in a different situation ;). Like for example horse complaints, and no doubt the countless expressions of worry about Mordhau not releasing with a viable team based mode.

And I think leaving bad reviews because you don't like the speed at which updates are released, or the current balance, or anything that is obviously a temporary issue, or simply expecting too much,

To leave a good, or a bad review is solely up to the person leaving the review. If they wish to release a bad review for the current state of the game as a warning to others looking to sink countless hours into a dead game they are free to do so. What is truly toxic though, are those individuals who wish to sweep problems under the rug and pretend that they don't exist, and are willing to be disingenuous just so more people buy a dysfunctional and incomplete game.

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 27 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@smug said:
disingenuous

dysfunctional and incomplete game

:thinkingemoji:

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  • 27 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
I'm not gonna go around this circle again. I explained what I meant several times, if you don't get it (or want to get it) read again. Mischaracterising things I've explained several times makes this not worth my time.

No idea what you are talking about or how that is an answer to my entire post there.

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  • 2
  • 27 Sep '19
 bobbydigital

@BenitoMussolini said:

@bobbydigital said:
This game mode brings camping to mordhau, it slows down the pace of the game to a snails pace.

Camping at bottlenecks
Camping in towers
Camping inside toolbox structure
Camping with the king
Camping at the top of a ladder

Camping at bottlenecks that are in towers, surrounded by toolbox structures with the king. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZ

and how exactly does this ruin the game? it's much better, if you defend, you might wanna do everything possible to block the access to some areas of the place you want to defend, and it's actual fun, 2 walls of enemies fighting each other, same for the rest, it's fun, except on Camp, the enemy spawns too close to the cart

Maybe to you and many other standing at a bottleneck waiting for the enemy to say hello is fun but for me is boring, slow paced and doesn't suit a lot of the loadouts in the game.

Every game has camping, which I dislike, prefer faster pace but now this game has it a massive way. Game killer.

Literally just ends up that grad is spammed with toolbox structures, turns in to minecraft.
So as you use firebomb someone will put it out with a smoke.