Mordhau

Dissapointment with invasion mode, it was overhyped and a letdown

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  • 2
  • 20 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
30 dollar indie game by glorified mod team that is more polished than many AAA games and has no invasive microtransactions or p2w bullshit that has kept me playing for hundreds of hours despite some minor flaws - inhales -

BAD.

'meh's

DELUSION.

160 90
  • 20 Sep '19
 NoYou

@Quenquentthebabysitter said:

@NoYou said:
Add a csgo style mode where you have to buy weapons as you go, like some other guy suggested before.

So loadouts can get fucked ?

Why add this to Invasion only ? Actually, what does this have to do with Invasion ?

Not gonna replace invasion, just suggesting actual good modes they can try adding instead of a fake frontline. Frontline, of course, will stay like it is, the csgo idea is for a completely seperate mode.

Knight 941 2568
  • 20 Sep '19
 Pred

It seems like from all feedback about Frontline, devs missed everything except that people want progressive objectives. So now we have a new mode which is somehow even more of a brainless, spammy, messy, annoying, troll paradise clusterfuck than Frontline, but we can actually advance, so it's different! But still the same.

It's a step in the right direction, but a very tiny one. This game needs an uncluttered, enojayble mode, and Invasion, while on paper better than FL, suffers from exactly the same shit.

201 403
  • 20 Sep '19
 serbish

i thought invasion was a missed opportunity to rework the maps in to something different, like making use of the graveyard area in grad, or extending beyond the castle gate in mountain peak. I dont know why they cut themselves short like this.

but we can be thankful they put in peasant slaughtering finally

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  • 6
  • 20 Sep '19
 smug

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
30 dollar indie game by glorified mod team that is more polished than many AAA games and has no invasive microtransactions or p2w bullshit that has kept me playing for hundreds of hours despite some minor flaws - inhales -

Polish isn't one of Mordhau's strong suits considering footsteps don't work properly and one of the game's main criticisms are lack of atmosphere and lore. To be honest the over-emphasis on polish and the fact that AAA games are often better at that aspect of games and not the underlying game mechanics are why AAA products suck. If you break down a game like Overwatch you quickly see that its 99% absurd polish because the game's inherent mechanics just flat out suck for a competitive fps. Nobody would be playing OW if it had dookie poo poo graphics, while older games with far worse graphical fidelity still maintain cult following competitive scenes.

Chiv 2 will be more polished than Mordhau but not necessarily a better game(remains to be seen)

It's a step in the right direction, but a very tiny one. This game needs an uncluttered, enojayble mode, and Invasion, while on paper better than FL, suffers from exactly the same shit.

I've been saying since the beginning that 48/64 player servers exacerbate the issues of Mordhau, but they most likely for logistical reasons want to save in server costs by not offering 24/48/64 player servers simultaneously. That doesn't stop the community from hosting 12v12s though. Invasion with a new map wont change anything if they keep the servers at 48/64 officially.

198 129
  • 1
  • 20 Sep '19
 bobbydigital

It's a half assed game mode.

What did they actually do? Add some peasants and block of 60% of the map with invisible killzones.
Invasion specific maps would be something like CTF? Symmetrical maps where both sides try to kill the king otherwise it's just frontline but with only 2 "capture" points.

A lot of the stuff is tedious, carry barrels, push cart and kill npcs. 😴

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 21 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@bobbydigital said:
It's a half assed game mode.

What did they actually do? Add some peasants and block of 60% of the map with invisible killzones.

You can literally reduce literally anything to a low effort achievement by putting it like that.

Invasion specific maps would be something like CTF? Symmetrical maps where both sides try to kill the king otherwise it's just frontline but with only 2 "capture" points.

Invasion is supposed to be asymmetrical, that's the whole point.

A lot of the stuff is tedious, carry barrels, push cart and kill npcs. 😴

So like any other objective based FPS.

For the record, I like invasion. There are some flaws, like the fact that on Grad you literally have to hide the commander inside a tower or he gets sniped by a catapult. But I'm sure they'll iron things like that out sooner or later. Other than that, the mode seems pretty fairly balanced. I've seen each team win on every map and it's different every game. Usually the side with better teamwork wins, and I think that's how it is supposed to work.

1697 1292
  • 21 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
You can literally reduce literally anything to a low effort achievement by putting it like that.

Not really. That only works if it's true. And in this case it is.
The only thing that is new about this gamemode is the king on Grad. The rest is just a few added missions (like you already have them in Frontline) and slightly different starting situations and rules on the (very same and not even slightly changed) maps.

23 11
  • 21 Sep '19
 BenitoMussolini

I don't see how invasion mode is disappointing, somehow the bias is removed in such mod, I actually have a lot of fun on both defending and attacking side, Grad is amazing on invasion mode, despite the few objectives, Taiga is completely balanced in invasion, and this way the cave part is put at good use, this mode is real fun

Mercenary 1263 2303

@esturias said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
You can literally reduce literally anything to a low effort achievement by putting it like that.

Not really. That only works if it's true. And in this case it is.

It works as long as it's technically true, but it's really just a bullshit way to spin any achievement into a simple one by not doing the effort justice.

What did NASA really do? Put fins on a tube, fill it with fuel and set it on fire until it hit a space rock.

Technically true, but framing it that way does not do it justice.

23 11
  • 21 Sep '19
 BenitoMussolini

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@esturias said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
You can literally reduce literally anything to a low effort achievement by putting it like that.

Not really. That only works if it's true. And in this case it is.

It works as long as it's technically true, but it's really just a bullshit way to spin something.

What did NASA really do? Put fins on a tube, fill it with fuel and set it on fire until it hit a space rock.

lots of people just think this way and reduce everything the devs do to something that looks like they could do it in 5 mins, entitled nerds

198 129
  • 21 Sep '19
 bobbydigital

@BenitoMussolini said:
I don't see how invasion mode is disappointing, somehow the bias is removed in such mod, I actually have a lot of fun on both defending and attacking side, Grad is amazing on invasion mode, despite the few objectives, Taiga is completely balanced in invasion, and this way the cave part is put at good use, this mode is real fun

I don't feel Taiga is balanced, attackers pretty much win in most of my games and the mines/caves seem like the easiest part. Just throw some smoke and push the cart, most of the attacks will be from directly in front of you, perfect place for shield play.
Hard to counter a straight bottleneck, there's no flanking etc

Grad is attacker dominated as well but once again it's just bottlenecks and ends with engineers spamming buildings and the king, who meant to be a beast, hiding away and camping.

Invasion seems more predictable and less random, takes away some character.

1697 1292
  • 22 Sep '19
 esturias

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Technically true, but framing it that way does not do it justice.

No, not technically true. That's a massive and obvious degradation and thus nonsense.
Please tell me where what I wrote previously is a degradation.

240 157

In my opinion its not invasion mode in a medieval setting unless a king is involved in every map.

Expand Mountain Peaks map into the castle, and put a player king behind the last objective for the defending red team. Either just allow blue to build ramps up into reds castle, and have the last objective to defend the king occur in reds spawn room, or expand the map to have a throne room behind reds spawn room once the doors to it are breached.

Taiga can receive the same treatment for the defending red team, but instead make it a field commander, no map expansion required.

Camp can also have a field commander in the defending blue teams base, no map expansion required.

Mercenary 1263 2303

@esturias said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Technically true, but framing it that way does not do it justice.

No, not technically true. That's a massive and obvious degradation and thus nonsense.

That is the point. I exaggerated way more in my example in order to clearly demonstrate why the type of framing you used is bullshit. Saying my example is a massive an obvious degradation is a no brainer, the point is not to make an accurate statement but to highlight why that way of framing something is dishonest.

You did the same by acting like what they did wasn't much effort, because you don't take into account how complicated the process of game design can be, especially with a small team.

Please tell me where what I wrote previously is a degradation.

It seems obvious that they did more than:

Add some peasants and block of 60% of the map with invisible killzones.

But if you really want me to get into it...

Simply adding peasants is not enough, and you make it sound like they literally clicked a bunch of times to place them and that's it. That's not how that works. They had to think about how many peasants, where do we place them, how much health do we give them, etc. The parts of the map they blocked off had to be decided in order to promote balanced gameplay. They probably needed to do a ton of testing throughout the process for both of these. They probably wrote a bunch of code to support the new gamemode. Do I need to go on, or does this get my point across yet?

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  • 22 Sep '19
 Tr0gledyte

@TheKingInTheNorth said:

@esturias said:

@TheKingInTheNorth said:
Technically true, but framing it that way does not do it justice.

No, not technically true. That's a massive and obvious degradation and thus nonsense.

That is the point. I exaggerated way more in my example in order to clearly demonstrate why the type of framing you used is bullshit. Saying my example is a massive an obvious degradation is a no brainer, the point is not to make an accurate statement but to highlight why that way of framing something is dishonest.

You did the same by acting like what they did wasn't much effort, because you don't take into account how complicated the process of game design can be, especially with a small team.

Please tell me where what I wrote previously is a degradation.

It seems obvious that they did more than:

Add some peasants and block of 60% of the map with invisible killzones.

But if you really want me to get into it...

Simply adding peasants is not enough, and you make it sound like they literally clicked a bunch of times to place them and that's it. That's not how that works. They had to think about how many peasants, where do we place them, how much health do we give them, etc. The parts of the map they blocked off had to be decided in order to promote balanced gameplay. They probably needed to do a ton of testing throughout the process for both of these. They probably wrote a bunch of code to support the new gamemode. Do I need to go on, or does this get my point across yet?

As a software engineer I can tell you that what you're describing can easily be done within 2 weeks, and most of that time will be spent on testing, meetings and putting the new version live. Coding the actual gamemode was 2, maybe 3 days of work for a single person and I'm including intermittent testing by the developer in this estimate.

On a technical level Invasion is just Frontline with a few VERY minor tweaks. A mediocre modder could have created this "Invasion" gamemode! It's grossly misleading how they hyped it up when, in reality, they put in less effort than, for example, designing a new map. Note how we got invasion before we got new maps, and how Invasion doesn't have dedicated maps even though it clearly should, to make the game mode shine.

The developers are chilling hardcore and putting minimal effort in. They already cashed millions, they've tapped out most of their potential playerbase, it's simply not going to earn them significantly more money unless they add so much content that you could call it Mordhau 2.0. In which case they will call it Mordhau 2 and make you pay for it again.

If you were them, cashed millions, would you put tons of effort into an existing game that will barely bring in more money? Nah. You'd keep the playerbase happy by changing a few parameters, writing some simple code and hyping it up as "Invasion". And work on other projects that will bring in money.

Game developers often don't play videogames themselves, or scarcely (and usually on another platform, like a console), because they can't help but pay attention to the technical parts of a game. There is no off switch. I can assure you that, for them, playing Mordhau is boring as hell.
That's one of the reasons why gaming communities sometimes wonder if game developers even play their own game after silly changes. The answer is no, they really don't. There is some (boring) testing involved but they don't experience the game as players do, not even close. They rely exclusively on feedback from players, and usually opinions vary widely. Sometimes statistics are involved as well, when balancing a game.

@LetsFightíngLöve said:
In my opinion its not invasion mode in a medieval setting unless a king is involved in every map.

Expand Mountain Peaks map into the castle, and put a player king behind the last objective for the defending red team. Either just allow blue to build ramps up into reds castle, and have the last objective to defend the king occur in reds spawn room, or expand the map to have a throne room behind reds spawn room once the doors to it are breached.

Taiga can receive the same treatment for the defending red team, but instead make it a field commander, no map expansion required.

Camp can also have a field commander in the defending blue teams base, no map expansion required.

The seemingly small things you ask for here would cost more effort than the entire current Invasion mode they've implemented.

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 22 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@Tr0gledyte said:
As a software engineer I can tell you that what you're describing can easily be done within 2 weeks, and most of that time will be spent on testing, meetings and putting the new version live. Coding the actual gamemode was 2, maybe 3 days of work for a single person and I'm including intermittent testing by the developer in this estimate.

Sure, I'm not a software engineer so I wouldn't know the exact details, but I knew it was more complicated than 'putting peasants in and blocking sections of the map' like the other guy said.

A mediocre modder could have created this "Invasion" gamemode!

Literally describing the mordhau devs tbh

The developers are chilling hardcore and putting minimal effort in.

Yeah people have been saying this since the kickstarter. It's some bullshit, as evidenced by the absolutely HUGE steps this game has made since alpha.

198 129
  • 22 Sep '19
 bobbydigital

This game mode brings camping to mordhau, it slows down the pace of the game to a snails pace.

Camping at bottlenecks
Camping in towers
Camping inside toolbox structure
Camping with the king
Camping at the top of a ladder

Camping at bottlenecks that are in towers, surrounded by toolbox structures with the king. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZ

111 97
  • 24 Sep '19
 BOBOLOJOE

IMO invasion is a better version of frontline

its closer to chivalry team objective but still no where near as good.

i much prefer invasion because there is less waiting to spawn and more people in 1 area to kill!
you get to fight in areas of the maps that rarely got seen in frontline

overall i think its good and am looking forward to more maps having invasion and more updates to the game in general

Mercenary 1263 2303
  • 24 Sep '19
 TheKingInTheNorth

@bobbydigital said:
This game mode brings camping to mordhau, it slows down the pace of the game to a snails pace.

Camping at bottlenecks
Camping in towers
Camping inside toolbox structure
Camping with the king
Camping at the top of a ladder

Camping at bottlenecks that are in towers, surrounded by toolbox structures with the king. ZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZzZ

So pretty much like an actual siege?