Mordhau

Simple and Easy Idea for Balancing Invasion

71 49

I find the new Invasion mode to be fun, but also not very balanced. However, there is an easy way to balance it. The key is to make the amount of time the attackers get to be just right. An easy way to figure this out, is to run the maps for a few weeks and gather data from full servers. The average amount of time it takes for attackers to overtake each objective should be the amount of time it gives. You could even set it up so that it continues to use this calculation calculate changes to this in the future. Boom.

This post is approved by Seymour.

4 4
  • 11 Sep
 .FreaK.

Yes, this is the best way to balance maps out
They should also remove the 5 sec death penalty in the Wardens own castle. I died because I went inside a room in the castle as the Warden. And died another time because i fell down the ladder, but the 5 seconds wont let me get back up.

71 49
  • 11 Sep
  Seymour

@.FreaK. said:
Yes, this is the best way to balance maps out
They should also remove the 5 sec death penalty in the Wardens own castle. I died because I went inside a room in the castle as the Warden. And died another time because i fell down the ladder, but the 5 seconds wont let me get back up.

I think I just saw this happen a few minutes ago. The warden fell down then the match ended. Thought someone killed him but didn't see anyone. Now I get it.

Knight 40 51
  • 11 Sep
 Josh

Changing the timer would probably be a good way to get a 50% win rate if that's what they're aiming for on balance, but it wouldn't be a very fun way of balancing it, the maps would still have any issues making them imbalanced and players would have to spend more time playing with the imbalance.

This might also lead to the least balanced maps being disproportionately played, e.g. imagine if Taiga is very imbalanced and requires 30 mins, but Camp is more balanced and only requires 15, then players would be spending twice as much time on Taiga than Camp assuming they're equally voted.

They should figure out what makes stages imbalanced or frustrating and solve that. Moving the barrels on Taiga seems to be very difficult (though not a big sample size yet), so maybe the barrels should be placeable and then picked up later so people can defend themselves? Would be more interesting to play than it currently is, especially if the defenders are able to destroy the barrels while they're on the floor.

But as long as the objectives are entertaining enough to play, then being balanced isn't too important. We'd probably want the defenders to be favoured most of the time, with each objective getting less likely to be completed. e.g. if 20% of the time the attackers fail the 1st objective of Camp, 40% of the time they fail the second, 60% they fail the third and 80% they fail the fourth. That could be better than 50% of the time succeeding all objectives as it'll feel like more of an achievement to get far.

19 12

Just a few tweaks for invasion:

  1. Do the Warden and Commander have some form of fireproof? They should, otherwise, firepot spamming will end games very quickly.

  2. You should probably let people pass Warden and Commander if they don't want it.

  3. Let Warden and Commander have free reign, it was always fun in Chiv to have battle kings charge into the fray.

  4. Maybe let the cart be slightly pushed back on some maps? You'll have to test where it's appropriate to let the defending team push back, but I think this will make it a bit more balanced to defend.

71 49
  • 11 Sep
  Seymour

@Josh said:
Changing the timer would probably be a good way to get a 50% win rate if that's what they're aiming for on balance, but it wouldn't be a very fun way of balancing it, the maps would still have any issues making them imbalanced and players would have to spend more time playing with the imbalance.

This might also lead to the least balanced maps being disproportionately played, e.g. imagine if Taiga is very imbalanced and requires 30 mins, but Camp is more balanced and only requires 15, then players would be spending twice as much time on Taiga than Camp assuming they're equally voted.

They should figure out what makes stages imbalanced or frustrating and solve that. Moving the barrels on Taiga seems to be very difficult (though not a big sample size yet), so maybe the barrels should be placeable and then picked up later so people can defend themselves? Would be more interesting to play than it currently is, especially if the defenders are able to destroy the barrels while they're on the floor.

But as long as the objectives are entertaining enough to play, then being balanced isn't too important. We'd probably want the defenders to be favoured most of the time, with each objective getting less likely to be completed. e.g. if 20% of the time the attackers fail the 1st objective of Camp, 40% of the time they fail the second, 60% they fail the third and 80% they fail the fourth. That could be better than 50% of the time succeeding all objectives as it'll feel like more of an achievement to get far.

Figuring out this time is a good step. If its too high, they can make it easier of course. If its too low, make it harder.

106 124

@Josh said:
...

Good post, though I would argue one thing:

@Josh said:
We'd probably want the defenders to be favoured most of the time

Matches would have a far more pleasant flow if the attackers were favored. It's in Invasion (and was in Chivalry's Team Objective's) nature for matches to have a good progression and decent climax when the defenders are losing. If they're winning - even if it's only at the last objective - it's not as fun.

Basically it's more fun to lose for the defenders than it is for the attackers.

The only downside is that Triternion will have to actually utilize good objective design and flank routes to give attackers an edge rather than just giving them way too much time - as is the case right now.

71 66
  • 11 Sep
 The Bird

Invasion really isn't all that unbalanced at all..I'm sure they'll be finding ways to smooth it out a bit, but honestly it's NOTHING like FL was in its early stages. I'm fairly happy with it in its current state.